Capitalists - you really don't see a problem?

a reply to: Semicollegiate

Well no Government has a definition. Thats how language works. The word has a meaning based on definitions. It can even change with common ussage.


What it can't do is be changed by anybody so they can use it in an arguement.

Otherwise I can just go ahead and call the free market socialism. Just so I can have a crappy poorly thought out debate where my soul purpose is to fight with my opponent rather than use reason and back up claims.

a reply to: daskakik

The free market caused the industrial revolution. It did not do any of the negative things though. It's only good.

Or it never existed as a free market (another claim made) but it was somehow responsible for the industrial revolution.


Or there monopolies only would exist if they provide the best service, accept there are laws for those, accept government should not regulate the market.

Not sure what is an arguement anymore or just a reaction to get the last word and state an unfounded claim.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Thats convienient for your arguement.


IE. It will never happen. Especially with the decay of ethics.

By your reckoning ethics could have never happened in the first place.

Ethics happened in an environment of freedom, as in, how should a free person choose to act.

How does freedom decay ethics?

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

The large corporation is the pilot. The government is the ship.

Get rid of the government, what can the pilot do now?

Corps will always use gov better than you.

Make the gov smaller.

The Heads of Corporations banded together on the TPP before politicians even had a inkling of its existence.
It was hatched by Corporate Think Tanks in the CFR and Bilderberg Meetings

So, with Government out of the way, what is to stop these Heads of Corporations from banding together to sell out their nation to slave labor overseas?

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Semicollegiate

Thats convienient for your arguement.


IE. It will never happen. Especially with the decay of ethics.

By your reckoning ethics could have never happened in the first place.

Ethics happened in an environment of freedom, as in, how should a free person choose to act.

How does freedom decay ethics?

Strawman.


Ethics happens through an evolution of ideas socially. Usually based on philosophy or theolology. Completely seperate from economics.

Ethics happen in every environment whether free or not.

They also degrade in every environment. Especially when they aren't discussed in educational settings.

a reply to: jacobe001

BINGO!!!

And create a new Government even worse than the last.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Looks like it will take another millennium or two.

Nah, there will still be government and some guy on the cosmonet saying that it will take another millennium or two to bring free markets back.

a reply to: daskakik

And Nibiru is coming

a reply to: daskakik

Or we could admit some things about human nature and make laws accordingly.

Call me crazy.

Capitalism needs some oversight. The arguement is how much and where. Not that it doesn't need any.

a reply to: luthier

You have failed to project a single free market in history.

All markets have a free market aspect.

The free market component of the real world market is the only reason the market came into existsance. All other aspects of the real world regulated market are non economic.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: daskakik

Or we could admit some things about human nature and make laws accordingly.

Call me crazy.

Capitalism needs some oversight. The arguement is how much and where. Not that it doesn't need any.

Maybe it does. But that is an assumption.

Does language need oversight?

a reply to: Semicollegiate

Right and I can exist with a wall between my left and right brain.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
It happened in the US on the frontiers.

Natural cooperation.

Did it? There was no social structure in these places?

Voluntary social structure is natural cooperation.

You seem confused about the current economic and political structure that exists in this country.
NOT..... the one that exists on paper but the reality.

This is the order of how it goes.
Big Corporations and Banks bankroll candidates to get into office to work for them.
Big Corporations and Banks love Big Government which is easily seen from the increasing amounts of money being showered their way.

Big Gov does not get bigger without Big Business making it bigger

Big Corporations and Banks are competing with the each on political favor.
Meanwhile, everyone else loses, no matter who "wins"

Those against Big Government and all for BIG Business are screwed in the head because it is because of Big Business that Government gets Bigger

It takes a lot of other peoples money to favor Big Business

www.opensecrets.org...

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $3,146,090,212
Insurance $2,190,651,832
Electric Utilities $2,013,127,133
Electronics Mfg & Equip $1,823,347,451
Business Associations $1,811,811,643
Oil & Gas $1,715,405,541
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,416,425,661
Education $1,399,862,870
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,310,021,801
Telecom Services $1,271,840,866
Securities & Investment $1,264,774,284
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,216,181,432
Real Estate $1,215,135,758
Health Professionals $1,189,983,794
Air Transport $1,125,384,003
Misc Issues $929,225,311
Automotive $891,793,138
Defense Aerospace $887,354,553
Health Services/HMOs $863,410,051
TV/Movies/Music $851,379,595

a reply to: Semicollegiate

It's not. It's historically accurate. Money corrupts. Deal with it.

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
It happened in the US on the frontiers.

Natural cooperation.

Did it? There was no social structure in these places?

Voluntary social structure is natural cooperation.

You seem confused about the current economic and political structure that exists in this country.
NOT..... the one that exists on paper but the reality.

This is the order of how it goes.
Big Corporations and Banks bankroll candidates to get into office to work for them.
Big Corporations and Banks love Big Government which is easily seen from the increasing amounts of money being showered their way.

Big Gov does not get bigger without Big Business making it bigger

Big Corporations and Banks are competing with the each on political favor.
Meanwhile, everyone else loses, no matter who "wins"

Those against Big Government and all for BIG Business are screwed in the head because it is because of Big Business that Government gets Bigger

It takes a lot of other peoples money to favor Big Business

www.opensecrets.org...

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $3,146,090,212
Insurance $2,190,651,832
Electric Utilities $2,013,127,133
Electronics Mfg & Equip $1,823,347,451
Business Associations $1,811,811,643
Oil & Gas $1,715,405,541
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,416,425,661
Education $1,399,862,870
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,310,021,801
Telecom Services $1,271,840,866
Securities & Investment $1,264,774,284
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,216,181,432
Real Estate $1,215,135,758
Health Professionals $1,189,983,794
Air Transport $1,125,384,003
Misc Issues $929,225,311
Automotive $891,793,138
Defense Aerospace $887,354,553
Health Services/HMOs $863,410,051
TV/Movies/Music $851,379,595

The confusion lies in the ideal of a perfect situation without the need to recognise mankind has some issues around greed and power that exist. Which is the true meaning of regulations. However they get implemented OS a seperate arguement. We first need to agree man can be corrupted. In which case they will conspire. If you pretend it doesn't happen you get terrible results.

a reply to: jacobe001

Big Gov does not get bigger without Big Business making it bigger

Big gov and Big Corps are in symbiosis.

Eliminate Big Corps and the Big Gov already made will remain.

Eliminate Big Gov and the Big Corps will be reduced over time by new, smaller, more specialized, businesses.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

Who eliminates big corps in an anarchistic capitalist state? The market itself?

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Semicollegiate

It's not. It's historically accurate. Money corrupts. Deal with it.

Corruption is waste.

Competition eliminates waste.

Competition eliminates corruption.

originally posted by: luthier
We first need to agree man can be corrupted. In which case they will conspire. If you pretend it doesn't happen you get terrible results.

It's ironic because proponents of AC use that very same argument against centralized authority but want to pretend that it wouldn't exist under AC.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

No.
no

No

And has never happened in history.

If my corrupt company offers consumers cheap goods through exploitation and conspires to hide the truth no.


This is why your idealistic philosophy is so flawed.

It's as flawed as Marx.