Capitalists - you really don't see a problem?

a reply to: Puppylove

I personally feel America should be built on top of small businesses, entrepreneurship, self-employment, small farms.. etc.

Those that can adapt like our friend in this thread, can go ahead and work a 60 hour week running a shop, owning their own business - And benefit from it. I would completely respect a person making several times my wage if they didn't earn it based on the slave-work of others.

For those that can't live that lifestyle can ... Grow crops, become an independent contractor for a plethora of job types, etc.

One farm being a million acres serves nobody.
One store being the meeting place for thousands serves nobody.

It's convenient, but in the end just hurts everyone.

Convenience is definitely a major fault of our society. We want a Wal-mart - No matter the cost of those low prices.

a reply to: luthier

Gladly, as parent your prime responsibility is to instill things like social sense, push them toward an education, encourage them to be all they can be. While this job is far from actually being that simple(I have three boys some days are easier than others) If you do this and THEY fail when they leave home. It wasn't your fault.

a reply to: sycomix

Possibly unless you didn't work hard enough at changing your aproach to adapt to reality.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I do love how, everyone's upset with the .01% and somehow people are so delusional they think that, that anger is directed at them and their paltry finances. Your right, we don't give a crap about people who aren't filthy stinking rich that they could buy and sell nations if they wished. Truth is, most of the people that think we're after their money, we probably think they deserve more as well.

a reply to: deadlyhope

You know most of the mega corps started as small businesses??? Some guy had a great idea and it went boom! That is the beauty of Capitalism. Good ideas and hard work are rewarded.

originally posted by: Substracto
You think Comunism is better? at least you can get rich if you work hard and have a streak of luck...

Whilst 99.9% of the population works hard and does not have a streak of luck. How's that fair? How about people working hard and getting a just reward (not communism) ? Whenever people go from one extreme to another ignoring the shades of grey in between I have question their understanding. Too ideological to understand the necessary subtleties of a workable fair system. The various aspects of such a system have been tried and proved to work. A nationwide solution would require all main political parties to cooperate and support even with a change of government.The problem is that cooperation, for some, would inevitably reduce their and their friends immoral excessive wealth.

a reply to: luthier

Altruism, collectivism, socialism, philanthropy, etc... All describe such a society.

( You can debate the implementations and such, but by definition, they describe a society more based on unity )

Oligarchy, war-mongering, profit-centric, selfishness .. Are all against such a society.

( Again, you can debate implementation and the like, but all, by definition, describe a less connected society. )

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: sycomix

Possibly unless you didn't work hard enough at changing your aproach to adapt to reality.

Please elaborate?

a reply to: sycomix

Everybody is an individual who responds to different forms of learning and stimulation. If you believe say a certain form of discipline is correct but in reality has unintended effects and consequences its on you that you were to self centered to not understand your idealistic aproach did not work.

Or your child has inherent say visual art skills and you chose to not nurture them under fear of job placement and miss your chance to develop the child's innate gifts that's on you.

a reply to: Puppylove

That's a really good argument. I didn't think about it like that.
I could say though, that truly lazy people, wouldn't have bothered to invent anything.

a reply to: luthier

Well said, bud.

a reply to: sycomix

You'd have to provide a lot of links to prove what you are saying..

Show me that Monsanto is just misunderstood and is just the American dream in the works!

Show me how the Rothschilds deserve to practically own countries and the world bank.

Show me how Big Pharma is just a great idea that went boom!

Show me how Walmart even resembles what Sam Walton created - And show me how the business is ethical, moral, and fair to all of their employees. ( A long list of lawsuits alone will show you this is not the case )

As I'm trying to say... I'm NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU.

Nor anyone you know.

Nor the family of anyone you know.

Unless you know Bilderbergs - Clintons, Koch's, Rothschilds, CEO's of companies that use slave labor in other countries etc....

My socialistic/collectivism leanings are simply my altruistic intentions fused into a political ideology. I am in fact for any system that would benefit the most people, which I have said in many posts that I love the idea of free-market capitalism. But since we're talking about reality... Let's talk about this Oligarchy that capitalism has perverted itself into.

99.9% of the population works hard and does not have a streak of luck. How's that fair?

It's not obviously, and a lot of the people who are wealthy either inherited money, or their parents had friends in high places or paid for them to go to a prestigious school (like W Bush).

a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

There are different kinds of lazy, but consider this, most work environments, especially beginning require boring monotonous repetitive work that must be done a specific way for hours on end, day after day, no innovation possible, work, work, work. This is anethma to such a person, they cannot and will not thrive in such an environment. So instead their innovation turns to manipulating others, dodging bosses and finding other ways to avoid work. What innovation once propelled humans forward has turned instead to work dodgers because that's the only way their innovative abilities work for them these days. When it was about survival, or they were in an environment where they had more say and could innovate, they thrived.

That said, some people really are just lazy. These rare people are those that don't want to work and are idiots as well so can't innovate. But I'm willing to bet you more people are stifled lazy innovators overwhelmed by the monotonous 9 to 5 work day than you realize.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: luthier

Altruism, collectivism, socialism, philanthropy, etc... All describe such a society.

( You can debate the implementations and such, but by definition, they describe a society more based on unity )

Oligarchy, war-mongering, profit-centric, selfishness .. Are all against such a society.

( Again, you can debate implementation and the like, but all, by definition, describe a less connected society. )

By definition yes. But the reality is what it is. It doesn't care about philosophy. You can use philosophy as a guidance and should but ultimately the ability to make corrections to the system is the most important quality.

The nature of a central government deciding what people can and can't have is not a good basis for liberty. Unfortunately it's like the free choice conundrum. You have to be free to make bad decisions to be free.

I admit fully in the problems we are facing in the current model but I don't think it can't be fixed with some tweaks and considerations for quality of life.

a reply to: luthier

As I sated before "social sense, push them toward an education, encourage them to be all they can be" So "you chose to not nurture them under fear of job placement and miss your chance to develop the child's innate gifts that's on you." Yes but I had already addressed that.

a reply to: deadlyhope

No matter what, there's going to be a problem. Go and be a hunter/gatherer if you want, but that kinda thing doesn't work out in the post-modern era. The world is flat, okay, and nothing you do is going to change that. Supply and demand rules prices--and we have a free market economy. People suck no matter what form of economy one has. It's been the same story throughout history. Honestly, for everyone who thinks that socialism is a good idea/will make the world into rainbows and flowers--I think you need to go learn world history. And anthropology. Because the whole problem is there is no solution. Poverty will always exist. And there's many more reasons behind that than simply The Man keeping people down. Thinking that that's the problem is a cop-out. We are all at fault here. Everyone. The rich. The poor.

We are screwed and we are all going to hell in a handbasket. Nothing you say or do--nothing that anyone says or does--is going to change this.

And I hate to break it to you but our poor and even our homeless have the best quality of life in the world. Switzerland--basically everyone there is poor, okay. Except the people with authority--they make out like bandits. Same with all the other countries you mentioned. You might want to actually go look up the facts instead of believing rhetoric.

a reply to: Puppylove

Such work environments SUCK for those of us with a good work ethic. I don't particularly blame people for avoiding work in such situations, there's just too much, for too little reward. However, it's usually people like me who do 2-3x the work, therefore things get done, and the whole crew is thought to be an efficient one.

Something that has always struck me as hilarious...

To the far extreme right (past conservative and libertarian) you have anarchy.

To the far extreme left (past socialism) you have communism.

So one one end you have anarchy, the other end communism.

LOL...

They're pretty much the same thing. Under anarchy no one would have personal property, as property ownership is a form of slavery and mastery over someone. Historically, anarchist were Marxists.

Oh, the irony.

a reply to: rukia

I haven't lived in Switzerland so I guess you got me there. But EVERY GOOGLE SEARCH shows they are happily, better off, have the most millionaires per capita, have less pollution, less crime...

Are you saying every one of these claims is false?