Anti Vaxxer passes whooping cough onto her baby

a reply to: luthier

20-40k cases most of which are vaccinated children on the schedule.

Source?
20-40k, out of how many vaccinated?

a reply to: Phage
Where are your sources. I just listed three that all have studies. Here is another.

Your 6 times more likely to get pertusis from this new shot than the old one with the same vaccination schedule.
www.scientificamerican.com...
www.scientificamerican.com...
www.scientificamerican.com...

Last one shows the 5.6 x more likely to get pertusis than the old vaccine.

Also be careful not to create a strawman arguement. I was simply stating this particular vaccine is showing some serious problems. Not that people shouldn't get it. It just is possible you will you get pertusis even if you have it. In fact after your last booster in a normal vaccine schedule you are almost not protected at all after a few years. Which means yearly boosters are necessary.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Vector99
Um. The pertussis vaccine causes a person to produce antibodies against pertussis. It is not an injection of monoclonal antibodies.

Explain the process please. I don't think you know this one.

a reply to: luthier

Where are your sources.

You said it yourself; the CDC.

I just listed three that all have studies. Here is another.

Nowhere do I see the statistics I requested.

Your 6 times more likely to get pertusis from this new shot than the old one with the same vaccination schedule.

I don't see that statistic in your link(s).

a reply to: Phage

Last link. Scientific America.

And yes the numbers I first gave are in the first set of links. It's also very likely plenty of cases go unreported.

a reply to: Vector99

Explain the process please. I don't think you know this one.

The pertussis vaccine introduces a weakened virus to the subject. The subject's body produces antibodies in response. In the case of a pregnant woman, those antibodies (along with others which the mother carries) are transferred to the fetus. This provides the fetus with a level of immunity to the virus, just as it does the mother.

a reply to: luthier

Last link. Scientific America.

Saw it.

And yes the numbers I first gave are in the first set of links.

Six times more likely? I checked again. Still don't see it.

a reply to: Phage

Well check again. Last link.
Among the children with confirmed pertussis, those whose first four shots had all been acellular were at 5.6 times higher risk for pertussis than those who had four whole cell shots.

a reply to: Phage

So the vaccine contains no antibodies?

a reply to: luthier
Thank you. The last one wasn't there previously.

So, the tradeoff is reduced efficacy for reduced side effects for the acellular vaccine.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Phage

So the vaccine contains no antibodies?

Correct.

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Phage

So the vaccine contains no antibodies?

Correct.

Then why ask me this?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Vector99
Antibodies have side effect? Like what?

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Phage

So the vaccine contains no antibodies?

Correct.

Then why ask me this?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Vector99
Antibodies have side effect? Like what?

Because what is transferred from the mother to the fetus are antibodies. Antibodies produced by the mother in response to the vaccine.

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Phage

So the vaccine contains no antibodies?

Correct.

Then why ask me this?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Vector99
Antibodies have side effect? Like what?

Because what is transferred from the mother to the fetus are antibodies. Antibodies produced by the mother in response to the vaccine.

As are the adverse effects from a vaccine.

You were quick to jump on something irrelevant.

a reply to: PhageRecent studies have shown that immunity from the acellular vaccine wanes relatively quickly. In 2012, for instance, a New England Journal of Medicine study determined that children's odds of catching pertussis rose by 42 percent each year after receiving the final dose of DTaP, usually given between ages four and six, in the childhood vaccine series.

This is something the actual medical community is concerned about. My wife is a research professor. We are not antivaxers. I think your having a knee jerk reaction to my comments here.

And it's not a good trade off. Just wait until these kids are all adults with no immunity. When did you get you last booster? You most likely had whole cell and don't need it but the younger folks do.

a reply to: Vector99

As are the adverse effects from a vaccine.

For example? Specific to the vaccine being discussed? Which is recommended for the third trimester.

You were quick to jump on something irrelevant.

You were quick to post something fallacious.

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: Phage

So the vaccine contains no antibodies?

No, vaccines don't contain antibodies. They contain antigens. Your body "sees" the antigens (at times with the help of a chemical "provoker" called an adjunct or adjuvant). Usually a macrophage consumes the antigens, identifies them as foreign, and presents them to T and B cells. B cells create antibodies to match the antigens. Some B cells 'archive' their response for future response to a particular antigen.

a reply to: luthier
Yes. I know the immunity wanes.
I said so earlier. So, does that mean don't receive the vaccine at all? Do you think the mother in this story did the right thing?

I don't know if I ever was vaccinated against pertussis. Is the cellular vaccine perpetual?

a reply to: Phage

Are you making a strawman now? I think I have said several times you should.

Not only does it wane it wanes very quickly. It means you need boosters quite often beyound the current recommendation guidelines. My point is to educate people the shot is not all that effective after your last booster and possibly not as effective as a patient is led to believe before hand. It would be nice if you had an option to get the old vaccine. You most like got the vaccine it's been in circulation a while though I have no idea of your age.

The cellular vaccine is not perpetual but it protects you throughout the time you spend in school and college.

I have no comment on what another parent I don't know did or did not do for their child. I would suggest they get vaccinated but spread them out a little bit more than they do now a days. Meaning come back in a couple weeks for the next round rather than have 8 vaccines at once if they are concerned about side effects.

a reply to: luthier

My point is to educate people the shot is not all that effective after your last booster and possibly not as effective as a patient is Les to believe before hand.

Can't argue with that.

It would be nice if you had an option to get the old vaccine

A choice is usually a good thing.