Association agreement ukraine

For the first time on 6 April 2016 in history I've got the opertunity to vote about an association agreement with the ukraine , for the European Union.

Now I'm not a political orientated guy , and I always have the feeling that politicians, at least the ones in power ,always make false promises , but once in power things go differently as what they said.

Now that of my chest , I'm glad we now have the opportunity to vote for something within the European Union that could effect us al over here..

So now I've got to vote about this association agreement for the ukraine to slowly enter the European Union I guess?

Now when I listen to my local radio I hear people say that it will cost us more money then we will earn about it.

My own feelings about this according all the threads I read over here about the ukraine and also with the fresh MH17 on my mind, and still somehow think about all the lying around this subject, that I really don't want to give them this opportunity to get these rights.

So now I ask ATS and the ones who are better informed about this agreement that me , to tell me why I should vote positive or nagative. .

Thanks ..

Just vote no. That's what I will do tomorrow.

originally posted by: meiosismb
Just vote no. That's what I will do tomorrow.

It's actually a bit more complicated than just "say no".

I'm a socialist. If I followed party rule, it would be easy: the Dutch Socialist Party (SP) advises to vote "no". Their reasoning is that Ukraine is a country ruled by a corrupt olichargy of wealthy industrialists and hence having a trade treaty with them is unethical. Also, they fear that the country, which is divide in a pro-West majority and a pro-East minority, will be ripped apart if we give the pro-West majority a trade deal with the EU.

But I will not follow party rule in this particular case. As a socialist, it is of more importance to me what the Ukrainian people want. Recent polls have shown that the majority of people in the Ukrain are in favour of the treaty. The corruption should be dealt with, but there is already an agreement in place to try to take care of it.

Hence, I will vote "yes".

I am in North America but from what I have seen of the people in power in Ukraine ,I would be very careful of voting either way . It may be that Rock and the hard place at this time .Ukraine getting their political house in order is one thing but implementing the Minsk agreement should be the first order of business . Without all Ukrainians being allowed to vote within their own country ,I cant see how people outside determining some kind of a legal binding thing that may give a corrupt Govt. more money to wage war on their own people is in anyway a good thing ...

I had read somewhere that even if its voted yes that it could take 20 to 25 years before they "might" become part of the EU ....

a reply to: ForteanOrg

It's a difficult situation, nor can I blame the western Ukrainian citizens that they want to stay with Europe and the Eastern with Russia.

Although I do think that if we vote yes , we get some resistance from Russia that again will heated up the Ukranian ,and Russian separatists , and drag Europe in another war?

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Every comment is welcome I really want to hear everyone's opinion about this..
Also what it would mean for the US if such an agreement would stand for trading with the Ukraine.

And I think the US plays a major role in European politics,if I may say so..

I had read somewhere that even if its voted yes that it could take 20 to 25 years before they "might" become part of the EU ....

That's also something that contemplates my mind, we all know how Greece almost had to leave the EU , and still has to offer allot from their citizens to get a decent income.

I think this whole Ukrainian association agreement really has a bad timing with all the troubles in the world right now..

a reply to: ForteanOrg

So what your saying is that because the people in the Ukraine want to be part of the EU in some way you are going to vote yes. What's next ? Probably the people from some northern African country's would like a treaty too. Following your line we should just make one with them too.

Aside from that, pretty funny that a socialist votes yes to a treaty that favors the big companies and #s all over de little companies. What to think of the chicken farmers here in the Netherlands, trying hard to meet all the requirements concerning animal welfare who will be blown away with chicken from the Ukraine which is produced without any regards to animal welfare.

what to think about striking a deal on the military front with a country currently busy shredding itself to pieces.
Here in the Netherlands we don't allow fracking. in the Ukraine it is no problem. but hey, the Ukraine people want this treaty.

And do you really think this treaty will end the corruption in the Ukraine? really? So, on the 7th of april all corrupt politicians in the Ukraine will wake up thinking, well, the Dutch have vote yes so now I will end my corrupt ways right this moment and be a honest politician.

and who would have thought, A SP-er joining the ranks of the vvd and groenlinks. my my, never thought to see this day.

a reply to: 0bserver1

I think the main reason the west Ukraine people are in favor is because people like van Baalen and Verhofstadt made some false promises thereby inciting the people against their own government.




in the end, I'm not against a trade agreement. Nothing wrong with that.( when the conditions are fair which they are not in this agreement) It is the political and military part that worries me. It shows the eternal hunger for more power which is synonym to the EU.

The Ukraine is trying to get out the hands of one superpower and in the process, with this treaty, surrendering al its freedoms to another "superpower".

Here in Holland the propaganda machine is pushing the "yes" vote with for instance a YT channel with "talented Ukrainian kids" singing Dutch songs in the Dutch language. I mean look at how cute and talented they are, and singing in Dutch.

How could you not vote yes.


Or the Dutch goverment propaganda channel's 8 o clock news. Everytime they do an item about the upcoming referendum they use this reporter Kysia Hekster.

"Kies ja" means "Choose yes" in Dutch and is pronounced the same as "Kysia".

Coincidence?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

But I will not follow party rule in this particular case. As a socialist, it is of more importance to me what the Ukrainian people want. Recent polls have shown that the majority of people in the Ukrain are in favour of the treaty.

How very typical of you. Always putting the best interest of foreigners above that of your own countrymen. Off course they are in favor because they know money will be sent their way and we are going to pay for it.

a reply to: DutchMasterChief

Combined with her nice appearance, lol

a reply to: meiosismb

Aside from that, pretty funny that a socialist votes yes to a treaty that favors the big companies and #s all over de little companies. What to think of the chicken farmers here in the Netherlands, trying hard to meet all the requirements concerning animal welfare who will be blown away with chicken from the Ukraine which is produced without any regards to animal welfare.

The guy is living in La La Land and would destroy our country just so he can be a "Gutmensch". It's sick.

When even people like my mother and aunt are starting to question the whole principal behind this treaty I know the only right vote is a no vote. People like my aunt belong to the generation that used to rebel against the status quo. And in the 90's became infected with the disease called Political correctness.

At the moment when even the mental blindness created by PC can't withstand the light of truth the choice is clear.

A no vote doesn't mean you're a friend of Putin
A no vote doesn't mean you don't give a flying you know what about human rights
A no vote doesn't mean you hate the LGBT community
A no vote doesn't mean corruption goes on forever and forever

I care so much for the Ukraine people that I don't want them fleeing into the arms of a new master whom is going to dictate how their state should be run. Off course the EU looks fantastic to them. Probably because they don't show them the smoke and mirrors needed to create the image of a grand European empire.


and all of this is still apart from the fact that from the start TPTB have tried to sabotage the referendum. Every trick is being used, from fewer voting locations to unclear ballot papers to guilt by "false" association.

and o yes, I remember the referendum in 2005. How we were ****** over without KY jelly.

a reply to: DutchMasterChief

It follows a pattern. Look how Kysia is also used every time there is news around the royal family.

KIES JA KIES JA

a reply to: meiosismb

She actually is the designated royalty reporter, normally.

Even her whole name is suspicious. "Choose Yes Witcher". Clearly Illuminati.




Kysia! Kysia! DAAR MOET EEN......!!!

The Panama papers will not actually help them in favour I think..

But what I don't understand , do other European countries have to vote about this?

originally posted by: 0bserver1
The Panama papers will not actually help them in favour I think..

But what I don't understand , do other European countries have to vote about this?

as far as I know the Netherlands is the only one. That's why Emperor Juncker is running around with his arms in the air screaming there will be a continental crisis if the Netherlands votes no

www.reuters.com...

the man whom continuous brings us nice snips like

"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."

a reply to: meiosismb

That's so weird, so if understand this correctly we are the only voice of Europe to decide what happens with the Ukraine entering agreement or not.?

Does Europe not have many nations with citizens to vote over this issue?

This I can't see the meaning off?

Then I will use my vote what I think many Europeans will say , or say in this thread. .

originally posted by: 0bserver1
a reply to: meiosismb

That's so weird, so if understand this correctly we are the only voice of Europe to decide what happens with the Ukraine entering agreement or not.?

You do understand correctly, as all other EU nations already ratified the treaty. Actually even the Dutch parliament already did - almost a year ago (april 7th, 2015).

However, though the Law has already been passed and so the treaty was in effect ratified by the Dutch - and also most parts of the treaty are already in effect, some Dutch organisations decided to excersize their Lawful right to call for an advisory referendum. This means that the Law is suspended, and parliament has to vote on this once more. Note this is an advisory referendum, parliament is free to ignore the results.

Given that we still have the same parliament we had when the Law was ratified, chances are that the result of the vote will be the same and the treaty will be ratified again - unless one of the parties changes its opinion. I don't think any of them will.

It actually is waaaaay over the heads of most Dutch, alas, whom mostly seem to think that this is about being in favour of the EU or not, or who simply enjoy saying "no" to whatever government treaty. Those that are well-informed have struggled with the matter, as there is a lot to be said for both sides.

However, given that ALL EU nations already agreed to the treaty and the Ukrain population has fought for that treaty for over 20 years, I will vote "yes".

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Note this is an advisory referendum, parliament is free to ignore the results. 

Well why should I even bother to vote ..?

If that's true what you're saying got a link to that?..