Why white people need to stop saying 'namaste'

originally posted by: Spookytraction
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Nobody likes to feel that they’re being labelled a racist, and if the r-word is so much as hinted at, they shut down. The possibility that they’ll listen to the person they think is slapping the label on them dwindles to zilch. If the goal is understanding rather than self-protection, it pays off to accept people on their own terms, and to take them at their word when they tell you about their experiences and feelings.

The girl isn't telling people they can't say namaste during a yoga class. She's just telling them how she feels about it, and why.

/shrug

I’ve enjoyed engaging with you. You’ve got a colorful writing style, and you seem to operate out of your executive functions rather than your amygdala, which makes you a joy to converse with. So, I hope you won’t get sore when I roll something your way.

I think the jocular contempt you clearly feel toward the urban cowboy is on the same affective spectrum as the disgust expressed by the girl in the OP, and I think it comes from the same place: seeing a cardinal symbol of your native culture removed from its context and trivialized. I think your contempt springs from offense. In that sense, you and the girl might have a lot more in common than you realize. However, as a wise frog once said:

Up until your "shrug":

She is free to state how she feels about it. I assume that her putting that opinion out into the internet means she expects it to generate some discussion and counter opinions. Mine happens to be that she is a moron, and its evidenced by her opinion on the matter.



After your shrug:

You would have to work extremely hard to actually offend me. Texan culture....hack at it all you want. Being fond of self deprecation, im likely to make fun of it (and my place within it) liberally.

What my points in those examples was: we can all have very sensitive toes when it comes to our culture. And we all do little things that to some wingnut somewhere would be disrespectful.

But it seems to me that someone with an audience, that is truly interested in proper cultural observances, would have spent some time being the steward of such, rather than providing a lecture that comes across as somewhat chiding and abrasive. Her point wasn't to bridge a gap of cultural awareness. It was to brow beat people for not having her perspective.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

What ever.

White people like all people can do what they like.

This is getting to a point that it is self defeating.

No one speak English either. Or Spanish. Both are white people languages.

Namaste

Just for the record.


kamehameha > namaste.

youtu.be...

I'd tell her to go to India to find an authentic yogi to teach her if it bothers her so much, but then she would get all the other cultural baggage that might come with it like maybe being denied because of the lingering caste system and gender issues among other things. That and she doesn't sound like she wants to take up a serious life of religious/spiritual practice, only an exercise class which a real yogi might not be so keen on teaching her.

This is where she fails to see the advantages of her much-disliked cultural appropriation. No one in Australia much cares about the other, less liked cultural baggage that comes with the practice in India. They mainly like the health benefits with a bit of the mental advantage.

And maybe she ought to consider that perhaps some of the things Australian yoga doesn't carry over might be better off left in India.

There were loads of members signing off their posts with 'Namaste' a year or so ago, seems to me as a fad which has passed.
Same with 'Peace' as the final word, one member in particular who was mildy annoying as 'Peace' ended every post when the words were much less than peacefully intended.

I note 'cognitive dissonance' and 'hyperbole' are not shouted around here as much as they were a few months ago.
Fads is all I see, and lame people who follow such fads.
I have no issues with anyone signing off with whatever if it is genuine, I don't think they are in any higher status if they choose to use words from languages and cultures which are not their own. If it makes them happy...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

But it seems to me that someone with an audience, that is truly interested in proper cultural observances, would have spent some time being the steward of such, rather than providing a lecture that comes across as somewhat chiding and abrasive. Her point wasn't to bridge a gap of cultural awareness. It was to brow beat people for not having her perspective.

Cool, I definitely get where you're coming from. I think a balance between everybody caring about how other people feel and everybody growing a thicker skin is probably the best way forward. I know this isn't what you're espousing, but the whole "you just need to be less sensitive" spiel is something I've heard from a lot of people to displace responsibility for their abusive behavior onto the target.

a reply to: Spookytraction

I think "abusive behavior" is the point.

My oldest son rides me about some of the things I say. I ask him "Do you believe I am a bad person meaning something bad? Or are you just bothered by the words that were spoken?"

Words vs intent....that is a major debate in my house. My oldest son and wife are words people. My youngest son and I are intent people. But they know me, and are never able to reconcile that I am intending something bad with anything I say. That's just not my nature. I just tend to speak very directly for the sake of expediency.

a reply to: Spookytraction

Sorry to interrupt.

But it really bothers me when we get into this whole "abusive" thing.

Half the things I see labeled as abusive are very picky as in things that someone could have just done without really thinking they were going to hurt anyone.

It's like the category of microaggression. Go look those up and find a list. You can find microaggressions that are contradictory meaning there is not sure way to avoid one in a given situation. And what it basically boils down to is that if someone feels bad over something, it automatically becomes your fault whether you were trying to make them feel bad or not.

Is that really the kind of world we should create where the idea of consideration is so carried to extremes that it becomes everyday paranoia that you might accidentally offend any other person you happen to meet without even realizing you were doing it? Because that's where I feel we are going, and that is very 1984.

a reply to: ketsuko

Words vs intent.

If someone is telling you that you are being abusive, and you are actually honest with yourself, you then you will know if you are being abusive, or if they are just taking offense.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That's not the part that bothers me.

What bothers me is when, whether I was abusing anyone or not, I can still get in trouble for it depending on where it all went down and how the complaint is handled.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ketsuko

Words vs intent.

If someone is telling you that you are being abusive, and you are actually honest with yourself, you then you will know if you are being abusive, or if they are just taking offense.

a reply to: Spookytraction

Meh, there is still a place for blunt words in the world, and if some folk here were mods the place would be boring as #.

Thats it Indian people can't say hello anymore. Or goodbye for that matter. They can stick to their 300 other dialects.

This is a silly article. Every indan person I have met has been asked when you take notice of their rich culture. That includes in India.

Hmm..White Privilege?

If a statement can't have the main descriptor changed and not sound racist...guess what? It's probably racist.

I don't care what color you are, either behave as a nice person, or don't.

If color doesn't truly matter than why such the 'Gov't approved' racism towards whites? Color doesn't matter, but pick a catch phrase over the last few years and guess what? Yup, it includes color.

The world just need to pull each others heads out of their !#$!# lol.

Nice to me, nice to you. Seems easy from my end....but who knows, maybe that's classified as some sort of privilege...better check with my legal team. *rolls eyes*

Author ought to be slapped. In the face. With a Herring.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

The word "Namaste" makes any of this nonsense pale in insignificance by its very meaning - which essentially expresses seeing divinity in ALL entities regardless of skin color, background, race, beliefs, etc..

Any true yoga "instructor" would never in anyway stop another being from using such a powerful word which is nearly ineffable in it's description.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: lydie15

That's an interesting point, but if these people feel bad about the way they live in western societies, do they ever wonder why people from all over the world are flocking to those very same western societies? If its so bad we have to be ashamed of it why do Indians and Pakastani's want to come here?

Exactly!

The more I think about this, the more it occurs to me that what really aggravates this Indian woman is that the only Yoga classes she can go to are all full of white women. What she would really like is to have a Yoga class that's comprised only of Indian women...............and that's o.k. with me.

We'll if that is what she wants, that is fine. But she can't really expect much if she chose to go to a Yoga class in Australia. Of course it will be predominately white. If she really had an issue and wanted to segregate herself, I'm sure she could find a private yoga class with only Indian women in it to keep her from feeling that way.

Either way, she can't blame us Australians for being white and practicing yoga. She had every choice not to attend a "white" yoga class.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Ddin't expect the OP to take the turn it did after reading the article.

Well stated, I agree.

Whoa, I guess I've been living under a rock too long. This claim our culture thing is awesome! Woohoo!

Now that we have seperated ownership by whatever "culture" is (I admit the word is becoming confusing nowadays), I have some issues and would like to propose trades.

I need Arabic numerals and will trade my "hamburger" recipe along with my "dynamic audio speaker" invention.

Since I'll need a modern defensive capability I will trade my "automobile" with the Chinese for their "gunpowder" discovery.

Sorry but I'm keeping airplanes and rocketry for myself because I'd like to maintain air superiority.

Everyone should listen to me!
Cultural appropriation is fun!

a reply to: muzzleflash

If Bruce Jenner can use a womens restroom, can't I just get a Culture Reassignment and be ok with saying Namaste?