Jesus said; Your faith has saved you

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Your personal monist philosopy has no place or value in discussing Biblical matters.
I'm not interested.

Is there a point to the Bible? Is not all the religious stuff about finding peace? That's what i think it is all about - what do you think it is all about?
Isn't 'being saved' the end of suffering?

a reply to: DISRAELI

I think what I get out of it is simply the greater the perceived sin of the forgiven the greater the need for forgiveness and the greater the response to God
The Pharisee didn't really believe he was a sinner and he was better than the woman, the Pharisee didn't really understand his own sin, judged the woman, didn't judge himself

I think we all make that mistake often, I have

Yes faith can be just a word if we don't identify how bad even little sins are

a reply to: Raggedyman
And this is where her "peace" comes from, of course. She was not "in peace" as long as she was out of tune with her God.
"There is no peace for the wicked".

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

If the woman believes she needs forgiveness it means she has condemned herself - she sees herself as bad. There is nothing bad and there is nothing good - there is only ever what is happening.
What is right or wrong with right now?

Is anyone doing now? Or is what is happening just happening and then words arise to judge and claim?

The Jewish law condemned the woman, Gods law condemned the woman, that's why she saw herself as being bad

Your secular assumption that there is nothing good or bad doesn't relate to this story, you are bringing something you believe from your life to a book that teaches something else
It doesn't make sense in this context, it's like you doing a jigsaw puzzle and me trying to fit a car tyre tube into your puzzle
Bible is a spiritual teaching book, you have a secular belief
They don't go together

I don't think you can understand theology

a reply to: Raggedyman
Does the 'world' believe there is no good or bad? You state that i have 'secular beliefs' - i was not sure what that word meant so looked it up - it means to relate to worldly things and not the spiritual.
If you and 'the woman' are listening to what 'they' (jews or anyone else) say that is believing in 'worldly things'.
The 'worldly things' are divided into good and bad, right and wrong.
But that which is seeing is not positive or negative.

What is all seeing and all knowing? And when and where is it?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

As I said, I don't think you understand theology.
your argument isn't related to this thread, go start a new discussion somewhere, create a thread of your own

I don't think you want to understand, you just want to argue

a reply to: Raggedyman

Posting and expressing happen - I don't see any argument. Different perspectives.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Is there a point to the Bible? Is not all the religious stuff about finding peace? That's what i think it is all about - what do you think it is all about?
Isn't 'being saved' the end of suffering?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
As I said, I don't think you understand theology.

'Theology' is about the concepts of God.
But God is not a concept - God is the non conceptual out of which - in which - all concepts arise.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

As I said, this is not the place
No, being saved is not the end of suffering
I didn't say you were arguing, only that you wanted to argue
Go start your own thread

This is not the place
This discussion is an exegesis

originally posted by: Raggedyman
As I said, this is not the place
No, being saved is not the end of suffering

You believe that 'this is not the place' but look. see..... it is happening.
There seems to be a denial of what is.
How does it feel?

The belief and conviction that 'this should not be here' is conflicting with 'what is'. Knowing that 'whatever is' IS and cannot be any different is faith - everything is as it is meant to be. Nothing is out of place.
But the man who has not realized God will not feel that everything is perfect - he will be seeking for something other. It has been said that one should not worship other.
The fact is there is nothing other than what is but it is strange because there are ideas that there is other and these ideas are what blind us from the truth.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

You are over thinking it faith saves, if you have the wisdom of the Messiah. And if you live a fruitful life. Believe and be baptized, that's all that you must do. Baptism bestows upon the one getting baptized the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is said by Yeshua to be the Advocate and Spirit of Truth. I believe in it, because it worked for me.

I asked God for the Holy Spirit and the Truth and I got it. With a found Bible larger than a dictionary (abridged) due to massive amounts of clarifying notes. I learned the Truth alright and I am extremely grateful but it was far from the official story. Not what I thought and I keep learning new things everyday that are fascinating, I study multiple religions now because I want the wisdom of the world.


And God isn't going to judge people based on religion. The real God (not Yahweh) is merciful and judgement will be fair and based on what team your on, good or evil.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Being "saved" is a church scam that "assures" people theyare going to heaven, if they don't apostasize. Something about it makes people arrogant with delusions of righteousness because they are saved. Some even believe it is permanent and can't be revoked.

Baptism (getting saved, in many churches) is really about being re-born into the Holy Spirit and that is the most important part of baptism. Wisdom and guidance from the Holy Spirit are within once you get baptized.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: intrptr
I know what you are saying , but would that be true faith ?

People do that all the time in church for one hour, on Sunday. The rest of the week they use that weekly forgiveness as an excuse or justification for what else they do.

If it was true faith , a person would not feel the need to sin.

mmmm, or the need to return to a building to get 'served' every week. Many don't have a choice about sinning. Like if you are addicted to alcohol or cigarettes or work in a defense plant making bombs. You may not want to but continue working there to feed you kids and pay the bills. So to assuage the guilt of that you go to church. Overall you justify your profession because after all, 'you go to church'.

To me faiths more a concretion of belief. Believing is a sort of affirmation, faith is a knowing from experience. Sort of aligned with hope. Once you've been shown its no longer about belief.

Neither of these has to do with stained glass, pews or pulpits.

a reply to: Heresiarch
Believing that there is someone who has to be saved is the issue. There is just the presence of God.

a reply to: Heresiarch

Being "saved" is a church scam that "assures" people theyare going to heaven, if they don't apostasize. Something about it makes people arrogant with delusions of righteousness because they are saved. Some even believe it is permanent and can't be revoked.

Well said. Imo, a lot of holier than thous running around , better thans, American Exceptionalists, arrogant beyond reproach, out to 'fix' the world. You should meet my brothers family.

Why some founding father warned about the dangerous nature of religious folk and their 'fervor'.

You can serve me now or in Heaven, your choice. We're saved we can do anything. Spreadin the word…

a reply to: intrptr
There is no part of the Bible I remember where you have to go into a building. In fact , the only buildings were Jewish Synagogues. To "hold church" all that has to happen is 2 people stand together and Jesus' name is spoken between them.That is the Biblical definition.
Peace

a reply to: Raggedyman

Go to church and be forgiven, get it out of the way and live your life content

Religion is a very useful tool of the state in that regard. People secretly know they are doing wrong, but are continually exonerated by that weekly infusion of the church 'service'.

The average christian has absolutely no idea what forgiveness of sin means to themselves personally or to others

They don't have to, they are 'spared' the understanding, as long as they continue to 'go to church'.
In my mind this is the warning about those that stand at the very gate turning those away that seek forgiveness and redemption . Believe you are saved and go about your way.

About what else you said, personally, its a matter of not passing judgement here (not doing Gods job) but waiting for judgement day to see who is ultimately forgiven or not. Waiting for then, being humble like you said, now.

Edit: The very notion that people are supposed to just believe they are spared, saved, whatever, is blasphemous… who are they to judge?

The church makes this a lifetime , weekly, daily delusional thing. Just believe it and you'll be fine, lol. Every time any doubt (conscience really) creeps in, refute it. Deny your own conscience… deny your souls cry.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: intrptr
There is no part of the Bible I remember where you have to go into a building. In fact , the only buildings were Jewish Synagogues. To "hold church" all that has to happen is 2 people stand together and Jesus' name is spoken between them.That is the Biblical definition.
Peace

Perhaps I wasn't clear. What has supplanted that is a form of worship people attend in church. Nowadays thats replaced the where ever three gather in his name. Or better still going into your heart to worship, the part that says the body is the temple.

The temple of the soul, each of us has our own spirit to consult, a conduit , an antenna to heaven, as it were. Turning inward instead of outward to people, places or things.