Why should any educated adult believe any of the stone age religions are anything but make believe?

originally posted by: coldkidc
a reply to: Xeven

If you don't mind me asking, what was it specifically that made you decide being a christian was no longer worthwhile?

Unanswered prayer, horrendous deaths of believers, starving children, no interaction/communication between gods and man in modern world, multiple belief systems on earth to name a few. How weird and odd God must be if Christianity is actually true. Naivety and the distance of time between those who wrote scriptures and us.

a reply to: Xeven

Yep.Those among many others. The biggest thing for me was lack of answering prayers that really mattered. I mean he would answer trivial prayers for things like money at the church for new furniture but not answer prayers to heal children's cancers. Oh but it must have been God's will that the child died of cancer. Nope. Just couldn't believe it anymore.

originally posted by: Xeven
I was a Christian and now I am agnostic. I would love for there to be more to life than what we see but...
Is there one shred of evidence that is obvious and objective that anything in any of the stone age religions is true? I mean if the creator magical wizards are all powerful, they sure going out of there way to hide from modern man.

There is obviously 0 to indicate that religious gods exist outside of the imagination of believers.

Which doesn't mean that there can't be "something". There might be, who knows? Yet religions aren't so much concerned about that, they already have thier institutions, their dogma, and their fairytale to go with it.

originally posted by: Xeven I am not trying to argue with anyone, I am trying to find some reason to have faith and after 47 years of life I see no reason at all to have faith in what stone age people thought was science. In fact I see the religions as nothing more than humanities attempt to understand the world and Universe they lived in.

Not only the primitive religions that most seem taken with, the modern versions seem no better. Most humans have some sort of belief in the paranormal. We are far from rational and the tendency towards delusion seems to be human nature. Especially where one particular and very common delusion (religion) is concerned. We have a sizeable proportion of people firmly believe in something that in many instances is quite demonsrably untrue, and in other instances is quite obvious charlatanry. Otherwise intelligent people expressing belief in things so rediculous that most reasonable people will feel embarrasment on their behalf (the story of Noah's ark, for instance). There are whole swathes of psuedo academics who treat such rediculousness as a genuine discipline.

Being brought up with religious indoctrination probably doesn't help, but there seems more to it than that. Religion appears to be a barometer of socioeconomic health. No great surprises there (this has been noted by many throughout history), but religion itself also seems to have a negative effect of it's own.

originally posted by: Xeven Not questioning the reality of religion is a cop out to believe in the unbelievable if you ask me.

I agree.

Though if it were that easy, religious cults would probably be a thing of the past. There seems huge atachment to such beliefs and people often base thier entire world view on such notions. The creationist community are an example, the whole thing seems like an exercise in easing the cognitive dissonance of trying to reconcile genesis with a science based education. Though overall, the modern world is becoming more and more secular and seemingly better off for it.

I, too, had enough church as a boy to last me a lifetime. I stopped believing in organized religion as a teenager and never looked back. I honestly feel unwell anytime I have to step into a church and see the behaviour of people.

Note I said organized religion. I don't know if there is a God, or if we evolved, or if we are a penal institution from some distant galaxy. I am comfortable with the fact that I do not know the answer to this and may never.

I do not need to believe in an afterlife to make me not fear death. Dying really doesn't scare me. If I go to a "heaven" or a "hell" or simply become nothing, I have no say in it so I cannot change it.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Xeven

Because to believe man is the supreme intelligence in existence, is
really stupid.

No one said this. Nor is anyone saying it. Especially not agnostics.

And to believe the human wasn't designed and created
is also stupid and a little odd as well. Don't need evidence for everything in
life. Somethings are obvious without the kind of evidence you think so
highly of.

Uh... Yes you do need evidence for everything. Otherwise, you get illogical statements like this, "And to believe the human wasn't designed and created is also stupid and a little odd as well."

I do not deny there could be a god and if one came along with enough evidence that it is what it says it is, I would certainly pay it the respect such a being would deserve.

I also have a hard time accepting that an intelligent creator being would require worship, create evil and worse a devil and hell. A being of such intelligence and power to create the universe would im my estimation be far above needing petty worship.

I also admit my estimation of a god if one exits may be very wrong.

I dont deny a creator being, i just need more than 2000 + year old scrptures wrote on papyrus by primative man to base my faith in.

I think that is reasonable and would expect an all knowing god that created us this way to understand my doubts.

a reply to: Justacasualobserver

"the lord helps those who help themselves"

yupp that's a typical line of christians - completely ignoring the fact that if i help myself i have no need for help from an non existant being.

Similar lines they use to prevent desasters: pray! If the disaster happens it's either (like in New Orleans): That's god s punishment for the gay parade.

Or if all fails: god works in mysterious ways.

a reply to: dusty1

Richard Dawkins stated that he felt children with Down's Syndrome should be aborted.
Dawkins also downplayed pedophilia.

Point 1: that is the current way it's done; premarital check and most people opt for an adoption if they found out the kid will have a down syndrome. It's a moral question there is no right or wrong answer. Besides it has nothing to do with religion.

Point 2: Can't comment on that. I only know him from Religious discussions. And pedophilia is somewhat a religious thing: Mohammed had a underaged wife. And the catholic church is THE organisation with the most child abuse no other organisation comes ever close to that.

And to end it; i like Dawkins view on religion he might cover other topics which i do not agree. Same goes for Hitchens on the topic of religion i am a fan of him. On the topic of the Iraq war we differ.

a reply to: Xeven

People don't become martyrs over make believe.

originally posted by: IsidoreOfSeville
a reply to: Xeven

People don't become martyrs over make believe.

Of course they do.

a reply to: IsidoreOfSeville

Ehhhhh yeah they can do that, and often have over the ages. Never confuse zealotry with reality. I don't quite agree with the OP (I am still waiting on clarification what was meant by Stone Age religion, as mine is more an Iron age one ). But martyrs are either victims (and martyred after death) or zealots who would not back down. Either way, it is not a requirement that their ideas be based in reality.

originally posted by: IsidoreOfSeville
a reply to: Xeven

People don't become martyrs over make believe.

Yes they do. People become martyrs for the dumbest # in the world. Right wing America near martyred the Bundy's a few months ago when they were arrested.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No, I'm talking about something like what happened in Africa when Boko Haram came knocking on doors and killed people for not renouncing Christianity. Or the folks that died because they wouldn't burn incense to a pagan god.

The martyrdom you mentioned is a political game. What I'm talking about are the folks that deliberately choose death rather than give up their faith.

a reply to: Noinden

Hi Noinden,

I don't know if I agree with your definition of martyr. A victim would indicate something happens to someone beyond their control. A martyr would indicate that even despite being aware of the mortal danger of admitting to or clinging to their faith, they deliberately choose to die or be persecuted because of their faith.

But for many martyrs, their faith is reality. I mean genuine believers, not folks sacrificed for political maneuvering.

a reply to: Annee

Do tell.

I don't think there is any absolute proof. It comes down to a feeling, your experiences.

I find it incredibly depressing to think that we die and then that's it...lights out. I look at the wonder of nature and the Universe and can't help but be in awe. There must be a creator.

However, it's not the biblical creator. I can't believe that the Christian God exists when there is so much hate and murder in there. God kills and directs people to kill in his name in the old testament and Paul is allowed to spout off that women are less than men.

What if I'm wrong? If it is lights out, I won't know it anyways. I know I'm not wrong about the bible...nothing wrong with Christians or Christianity overall, it's those pesky abnormal verses and the evil in the old testament. Genesis too. Why wouldn't got put some scientific tidbits in there for us to find and wonder at thousands of years later when we can finally understand. But no...

I read a lot of books on God and spirituality and Zen and Philosophy. I'm researching life after death experiences now. Trying to find out if they are true. Some must be but others must just be dreams and yet others are just trying to sell books. Interesting. One guy said he went to hell...I can tell he really believes it. But was it just a dream colored by his own religious background and knowing he was dying and the drugs he was on?

I've heard of a experienced priest quit and go to McDonald's, to gangsters getting religious when they are bleeding, when they didn't give.

Any body still call God when they are angry or having a little too fun at a temple?

a reply to: IsidoreOfSeville

If you look at the "martyrs" through history, many have been "martyred" who were just victims. I also included Zealots (viz Masada) who "did it anyway". The thing about faith is it can not be proven to be correct, nor does it need too.

I'm a Non Abrahamic spiritual individual. My faith is just as strong as those in Abrahamic, or other faiths, however it is counter to monotheists beliefs of a "supreme being". To them my faith is "make belief" or "the devils work", so is my faith any less real because of their belief? There is no way to test it.

a reply to: svetlana84

Bang on the head!
Beleive in yourself because you are the only one with the devine power to make a change.

I do not deny there could be a god and if one came along with enough evidence that it is what it says it is, I would certainly pay it the respect such a being would deserve

Well said, but so far there is no evidence, and if you judge the reality of religion by how many crazy, lazy, hateful, cowardly, criminal or otherwise bad people there are in them you have to conclude that religion is bad.