Finding Nimrod

a reply to: Byrd
I appreciate the point by point replies but I beg to disagree that Farrell is a terrible researcher. His books are peppered with footnotes for the readers and other researchers to double check his sources; whether his interpretations and speculations regarding the materials he collected presents an accurate picture is a matter for individual readers and researchers of alternative history to ponder for themselves.

The Rostchild that was named Nimrod was from the English branch of the family. What baffles Farrell (who is also part Jewish) is precisely the point you made that "Any "half nimrods" would have been rejected by the Jewish society..." Nimrod is not a standard Hebrew name and the question he asked (from the linked interview) is why would this family name some of it's member after a biblical character?

The Nimrod Group, which is sort of a mutual investment fund company if small by the Rostchild standard also begs the same question why name it Nimrod? Unless there is something about the unsubstantiated claim that the Rostchilds are descendants of Nimrod? Yeah, it really is a stretch.

We're searching for Nimrod right? Turns out my contribution is not hunky dory. Please just treat it like look what the cat dragged in this time.

Cheers!

originally posted by: SargonThrall
a reply to: 5StarOracle
Actually Sargon is the man credited with the first world empire, and I should know.

Sargon of Akkad is pretty interesting.

Here's something to think about: he was creating his empire about the time that Egypt entered the sixth dynasty - Unas and Pepi and Teti. We've got better documentation for these kings and the ones who went before them than we do for Sumeria!

a reply to: kef33890
I disagree, historically it has been effectively the opposite, in that the Bible was considered the authority on history and archaeology was there to bolster it. It is through great feat and luck that we have come to our senses and accepted that the Bible is not infallible.

Personally, I view it as rather accurate, but more so in the sense how a movie will have an accurate outline; the specific events are often quite erroneous.



a reply to: MaxTamesSiva
I would have to assent to this notion, as I have borrowed several of Farrel's books from a friend. And whilst his publisher has the worst editor in history, typos notwithstanding his writing is adept. I can not vouch for his bloodline works but would suggest it is more conspiratorial than factual; however, his works on Nazis are spectacular and have been confirmed by a friend who is an expert on Nazis. Well... everything except the "Bell", which apparently has a single, unreliable source.



a reply to: Byrd
Indeed! I believe much of the problem lies in the fact that the average person demands a neat and concise notion of history, and as such school is wont to teach swathing generalities to satisfy the need. Sumeria has become popularized because it is suitable, well studied, and mentioned in the Bible. The trifecta.

When I first got into history, and conspiracies thereafter, most sources said that Sumeria is the origin of just about everything. I was surprised to later learn the age of Jericho, Catal Huyuk, Kappadokia, and so forth. Many things exceed it in age; Sumeria is merely the first "neat" civilization.

Well it appears I really messed up with copying my Word document. Here is the rest. Please refrain from replying until i'm done. Thanks.



Comparing the Sumerian King Lists

Let's look at various sources about Nimrod or King Ninus. The Greek source about King Ninus from Diodorus Siculus. Diodorus one of several ancient historians who claimed to have access to an even more ancient record of Assyrian history from Berossus. Diodorus states that King Ninus built a city and named it after his own name. This is the great city of Ninevah which is confirmed by the Bible that Nimrod built . Also, the Bible clearly states that Ninus/Nimrod built Erech, Calneh, Akkad, and Babel. Pay close attention to these names! Now, let's find one of the Sumerian King Lists to use as an "Anchor" upon which to compare other lists.

Uruk Dynasty 1 is exactly what we are looking for! Uruk is Sumerian for Erech, and interchangeable with Unug. The king we are looking for goes by the name Enmerkar, which means mighty hunter. He was the second King of Uruk 1 after the Great Flood, who is listed as building Unug (Erech). The Bible lists Nimrod as being the son of Cush, grandson of Ham. Enmerkar just happens to be son of Mesh-ki-ang-gasher, grandson of Utu (the sun god). Gasher is similar to Cush. I would imagine "Gasher" is something along the lines that Cush was originally said. Nimrod is simply Hebrew for NMRD, and NMR is exactly how Nimrod would be written in Hebrew, which the D means "to rebel." So NMRD would be the Rebellious Great Hunter. I did not come up with this research. This knowledge about the meaning of Nimrod is from David Rohl's work. I find it hard to believe that Uruk 1 Dynasty are the actual names of the rulers, though. These names on Uruk 1 Dynasty seem to be a time after these rulers lived. Kish 1 Dynasty seems to be their true given names. It doesn't take a linguist or genius to see how these two lists are the exact same people.

Dynasty 1 Uruk
Mesh-ki-ang-gasher
Enmerkar
Lugaglbanda
Dumuzid
Gilgamesh
Ur-Nungal
Udul-Kalama
La-Ba'sham
En-nun-tarah-ana
Mesh-he
Melem-ana
Lugal-kitun


Jusher or Gusher of Kish 1 is closer to the Bible's given name of "Cush." Thus I'm going to say that Kish 1 is the closest match to most of their true names.

Dynasty 1 Kish
Jusher (Gasher or Gusher: pronounced Kesha???)
Kullassina-bel (This is our man. Nimrod/Enmerkar/Ninus)
Nangishlishma (Lugalbanda)
En-tarah-ana
Babum
Puannum
Kalibum
Kalumum
Zuqaqip
Atab
Mashda
Arwium

There are matches between the two lists, but Kullassini-bel is the important one. Recall how the Biblical account says that Nimrod built Calneh? Well as it appears, Calneh is a Hebrew word with a totally different meaning. Calneh is a Hebrew translation for "Kalhu" which is a given name. This is an example of having a similar sounding word between languages, but having two completely different words! NOTE, that the current city called Nimrud, in Northern Iraq, used to be called "Kalhu"! Now I point you in the direction of Diodurus's account of Assyrian history."And to the city he gave his own name, Ninus, and he included within the territory of its colonists a large part of the neighbouring country." This is found in the account of Diodorus, regarding the history of Assyria. His name was Ninus to the Greeks. It is my belief that Nimrods true name is Kullanissi, and founded his city of Kalhu (not Calneh, technically...they are two different words). Kalhu was named after Kullanissi and Nivevah was named after his son Ninyas (Niniyas).. Note that on the Kish 1 list, Kullanissi has "bel" after his name, which simply means "lord" or "king." So his proper title would be King Kullanissi, and over the clouds of time he has picked up numerous names. Nimrod, Ninus, Marduk, Ninurta, Balih, and Enmerkar (Great Hunter), which Nimrod's name is based off and he is known today.

So now we have our man unveiled... Next order of business is to unmask his evil a** wife known simply as Semiramis. Nimrod was an evil man, but his wife was debatably more evil.



Semiramis

Legends tell that Nimrod married a whore. Her profession before becoming a Usurper Queen, was a tavern-keeper. According to the histories of Berossus, who's work survived in multiple sources of different ancient historians, Semiramis was adopted by a shepherd when she was a child. Growing up and maturing she was the most beautiful maiden in the area. According to Diodorus/Berossus, King Ninus's young general by the name of Onnes, or more properly Menones, was sent to inspect the royal herds at a town called Ascalon. Menones immediately fell in love with Semiramis and lawfully wedded her, and they begat TWO children: Hyapates and Hydaspes. A few years later after conquering Caanan and Armenia, King Ninus attempts to take Bactriana. It was during this siege that Ninus fell in love with Semiramis. Semiramis not only was beautiful, but she proved herself a cold-hearted warrior in battle and Ninus took Bactriana because of her wits and bravery. After some time, Ninus wanted to take Semiramis in marriage from his Menones. First, he tried persuading Menones to yield her to him at his own will, offering his own daughter to Menones in exchange. This wasn't taken lightly by Menones, and when he refused Ninus threatened to put out his eyes. Heartbroken and shattered, Menones agreed to let Semiramis go marry Ninus. Being a broken man, Menones hanged himself shortly after.

Let's identify this General of King Ninus, first! After the capture of the territories west of Sumer, Menones was a co-ruler or governor of areas in Ninus's empire. Like stated before, on the Sumerian King List there are multiple names in which the rulers are the same. Kish List 1 is directly linked to Uruk 1, resulting in confusion in both ancient days and modern times. It has already been proven that, on Kish 1, Gusher through Arwium are the same people as Uruk 1. It just so happens that Kish 1 can further be split in half. So now we have 3 lists of the exact same rulers.

Etana (Cush/Gusher. Consolidated all the foreign lands)
Balih (Nimrod, Kullassini-bel, Enmerkar, Ninus)
En-menun-a (Lugalbanda from Uruk 1) Note Enmenuna...
Melem-kish (son of Enmenuna, equivalent to Dumuzid)
Barsal-nuna (son of Enmenuna, equivalent to Gilgamesh
Zamug
Tizqar
Ilku
Iltasudum
En-me-barage-si
Aga of Kish

I have discovered that Menones recorded in the Greek histories, is Enmenuna/Lugalbanda. Once again it doesn't require a linguist to put these together! So Lugalbanda was co-ruling with Kullassini aka Nimrod/Enmerkar. It was Lugalbanda who ended up hanging himself after his wife, Semiramis, left him for Kullassini/Nimrod/Enmerkar. Although in the Epic of Gilgamesh, Lugalbanda and Ninsun procreated to create Gilgamesh. Ninsun is "Great Queen" and is none other than Semiramis in a deified form. In his epics "Lugalbanda and the Anzud Bird" and "Lugalbanda and the Mountain Cave", he is a "soldier " in Enmerkar's Army. He is also considered as a husband to Ninsun/Semiramis. Note that LugalBanda means fierce young king. Also note, that in all epics, there is absolutely no reference to Lugalbanda succeeding Enmerkar as king. The only way that can be implied is by looking at the Kings List, where, if in strict chronological order, he would be after Enmerkar. But I believe Enmerkar and Lugalbanda co-ruled with Lugalbanda dying before Enmerkar, having killed himself. Interestingly enough, Gilgamesh's father is said to be a phantom... I would interpret that to be Lugalbanda's unfortunate demise in which he is now a haunting ghost?

After the two Lugalbanda epics (listed above), Enmerkar seizes the city of Aratta in the epic "Enmerkar and Ensuhkeshdanna" and Aratta submits to defeat. Ensuhkeshdanna, in my opinion, is none other than King Barzanes of Armenia. Barzanes is listed in Berossus's history as the King who submits to Ninus, and whom Ninus spares. After this I believe Nimrod/Ninus/Kullasini installed Lugalbanda as a co-ruler over Armenia. This leads me to, in my opinion, the last epic in chronological order, called Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta. Enmerkar wishes the Lord of Aratta to submit to him. Inanna (Ishtar/Semiramis) has chosen Enmerkar in her heart, to reside in Uruk with him. Also Enmerkar/Nimrod is requesting building materials from Aratta for his great Temple Tower he is building (sound familiar?). The un-named Lord of Aratta, is angered and refuses to accept Inanna's transfer to Enmerkar. Eventually the Lord of Aratta finally see's that Inanna/Semiramis wishes to reside in Uruk, with Enmerkar/Nimrod and is devastated as a result. Enmerkar/Nimrod wins without a fight. Towards the end of the text, he is called "The Champion of Aratta", and he is dressed in LION'S SKIN.

Diodorus states that Semiramis killed her own sons after Nimrod died a violent death, possibly from her. According to the Epic of Gilgamesh and the various King Lists, Dumuzid and Gilgamesh are sons of Lugalbanda/Menones/En-Menuna. There is also a myth circulated as well, that Dumuzid died a violent death at the hands of Semiramis, in order to deify Nimrod and herself. There is support for this given the link between Inanna, Ishtar, and Semiramis. There is a poem in old Sumerian literature about Dumuzid being the lover of Inanna, whom Inanna sends to the underworld. This poem is copied into a Babylonian version later on, where Tammuz is sent to the underworld by Ishtar... Only to come back to life for half a year then die again and rise in an infinite cycle. Being deified was a plus, but after the deaths of Nimrod and his step son's Semiramis was free to rule, until she was killed by Kullassini/Nimrod's son, Niniya (whom Nineveh is named after). I will close this section with a quote from the Epic of Gilgamesh that will confirm the accounts of Semiramis's many lovers that I've show you.

Ishtar asks (her own son) Gilgamesh to "Merry" her, but Gilgamesh refuses because she is a murderous whore. This is his response:

"Listen to me while I tell the tale of your lovers. There was Tammuz, the lover of your youth, for him you decreed wailing, year after year. You loved the many-coloured Lilac-breasted Roller, but still you struck and broke his wing [...] You have loved the lion tremendous in strength: seven pits you dug for him, and seven. You have loved the stallion magnificent in battle, and for him you decreed the whip and spur and a thong [...] You have loved the shepherd of the flock; he made meal-cake for you day after day, he killed kids for your sake. You struck and turned him into a wolf; now his own herd-boys chase him away, his own hounds worry his flanks."

I interpret this as fitting perfectly. Tammuz was murdered by Semiramis/Ishtar/Inanna. The strong LION (who was Nimrod/Enmerkar/Kullassini), the magnificent stallion (Lugalbanda/Menones/En-Menuna), and the shepherd of the flock (named Simmas who adopted her); all these were murdered by her. I'd like to specifically point out the "magnificent stallion" whom she decreed the whip, spur, and thong.. Sounds like a hanging doesn't it? The thong went around Lugalbanda's neck. The spur dug into the horse he was sitting upon. This confirms the Greek history of Ninus's general named Menones.

Last, I would like to point out the third dynasty of Kish. In Kish 3, we have the ONLY female woman on the Sumerian Kings List. She is a tavern-keeper, an alewife... Her name was Kubaba. She is listed by herself, because she was a usurper. She added herself to the list. Kubaba is behind the mask of the most evil ruler of her days. She murdered her sons that she had through Menones/Lugalbanda. But she begot Niniyas either through Nimrod or illegitimately through Ashur. Who was Niniyas's father would require a little bit more research, but I believe Nimrod/Ninus is likely his father. But either way Niniya's killed his evil momma. Ironically, according to Hebrew and other sources, Ninyas was the most evil of them all.

Anyway thanks for reading! I'm going to update this thread and keep listing my sources as I find them. I'm not good at sourcing my work lol. I'm going to bed.


penelope.uchicago.edu...*.html
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...


END


Whew. There has got to be an easier way to create larger threads!

originally posted by: MaxTamesSiva
a reply to: Byrd
The Rostchild that was named Nimrod was from the English branch of the family.

There is an Albert Anselm Solomon Nimrod von Rothschild (www.rothschildarchive.org...) who died at age 16. but was called Albert and not Nimrod. There are no other Nimrods in there.

What baffles Farrell (who is also part Jewish) is precisely the point you made that "Any "half nimrods" would have been rejected by the Jewish society..." Nimrod is not a standard Hebrew name and the question he asked (from the linked interview) is why would this family name some of it's member after a biblical character?

"half-nimrods" was a joke. By Jewish tradition, children belong to the mother's religion... so sons of a non-Jewish man would not be considered Jewish. And odd names depended on the family branch. The American Rothschilds (who apparently dropped the 'von' and 'die') went in for fairly standard names, but the European ones had much longer names that include names of grandparents and godparents.

The Nimrod Group, which is sort of a mutual investment fund company if small by the Rostchild standard also begs the same question why name it Nimrod? Unless there is something about the unsubstantiated claim that the Rostchilds are descendants of Nimrod? Yeah, it really is a stretch.

Actually, I'm going to ask "which "Nimrod Group" (I find three)? The "investing group" MIGHT be real but has all the hallmarks of a hoax website - set up on a free website (who does that when you have billions of dollars to make your corporate presence real?) and working out of a post office box (not a real office) ... registered by an Australian domain name server... and owned by one Joseph Aleks (he's hardly a Rothschild (you can verify this information by using a WHOIS lookup service) of PO Box 14, Frazier CA -- oh, and he's 64 years old (using one of those"we'll give you his address if you pay us money" sites.) There's records of him on Ancestry.com and other such places.

This person is Not A Rothschild.

Or did you have another site in mind? I was looking at this one: thenimrodgroup.com...

a reply to: kef33890

Your sources appear to be mixing legends of several people together. Most of it appears to rely on the later Armenian tradition rather than Diodorus Siculus and doesn't match the Empress Semiramis The real empress could be the source for Siculus' account, since both are warrior regents who lead the army on behalf of their sons.

a reply to: Byrd

Thank you Byrd, and I appreciate the reply.

My listed source of Semiramis, supposedly coming from Berossus originally, could easily have been historical Queen Shammuramat. But the rest of Diodurus's account of Assyrian history in that link has too many recorded events suggesting a much more ancient history than Queen Shammuramat.. What is to suppose, say...Queen Shammuramat was named after the original Semiramis aka Kubaba?


I'm not sure if that will help convince you or not. It's a long read. And once again thanks for reading my long rant. I'm looking for a new link to a different free source, because this above source doesn't allow incoming links from other websites and redirects to the homepage


Ahah! Here is a free source that isn't finicky...

books.google.com... &ved=0ahUKEwjD7s_0j-TLAhUEZCYKHWnEB8o4ChDoAQgjMAI#v=onepage&q=diodorus%20book%202&f=false

a reply to: Byrd
It's on me, I didn't get the joke. So the 2 data points panned out, I also checked The Nimrod Group and hit a wall. I only have a hunch how Farrell verified that somehow the Rostchilds are behind The Nimrod Group, Catherine Austin Fitts is a friend of Joseph Farrell. To most Farrellites, it's common knowledge.

Now, I rest my case, which isn't much- 2 small details and a questionable claim. The Human Genome Project and that all roads lead to Sumeria thingy is a long bizarre story.

I wish you all luck in finding Nimrod.

More on your sources

They're Biblical nonsense. Ask anyone who knows anything about Ancient Mesopotamia. Nimrod had he existed would have been deified, no such God exists, ergo, Nimrod didn't exist. I mean, surely the phrase associated with him "He was a mighty hunter before the LORD", shows its own evidence of non existence, because the Lord, referred to didn't exist at that time...

The Bible is full of such misunderstanding, like Abraham, coming from Ur of the Chaldees (Didn't exist until 1000 years later)
Or half the stations of the Exodus, didn't exist until 500-750 years later

That's what the Bible is, an attempt to appropriate the claims made by other cultures as Hebrew. Even YHWH stole some of his claims from other Gods. The garden, the flood, etc etc etc

Using the Bible as a historical source is a huge error. Its only relevant as an anthropological tool to study captive religions

a reply to: Marduk

Oh boy... Here we go... I'm surprised at your straightforward and oblivious claims that defies your name "Marduk"! No offense, but do you know Mesopotamian history as well as you think?

Ninurta, god (lowercase g...) of hunting and war, which is a precursor to god Marduk. The latter was a late period conglomeration of gods (including Ninurta). I'm not even throwing my biblical views into your face, as I'm just stating a fact.

Are you sure that a pre-historical ruler of such, could not possibly have been deified into an early deity that has many parallels in both etymology and mythical belief?


May I also point out the name of early Sumerian god Ninurta's consort, Bau? Let's see...what was the name of the woman tavern keeper, listed solely on Kish 3 of the S.K.L.? Kug-Bau? Kubaba..

Or is that 100% no doubt about it, no questions asked, "I'm gonna slam my head into the searing hot desert sand", totally 100% co-inky dink coincidence and not related at all....so shut up? Should I just go teach Sunday School already, Marduk?

This is a subject I have studied quite a bit about, and at the end of the day there is not any conclusive evidence in secular history to prove who Nimrod was. Many books at the current moment link Nimrod to Ninurta, as was mentioned earlier.

Tradition holds that Nimrod was the person who spearheaded the building of the tower of Babel, however the biblical account makes no such distinction. Instead the bible says at Genesis 11:4 "Come let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves." So the scriptural reference refers to a collective conspiracy of the people.

Who were among the generation that constructed the tower of babel? Notably one son of Shem and 1st generation after the Ark, was Asshur. He not only was deified as a god, but it is from him Assyria was named. Nineveh was the major city in Assyria, and likely was named after the city of Nina of older origin.

According to the biblical account, Arphaxad son of Shem, fathered Shelah, who fathered Eber, who fathered Peleg. It was during Peleg's time (4th generation from the ark) that "the earth was divided" (Genesis 10:25) This might refer to the "confusion of language" as the bible talks about, or as secular history confirms a period of around 200 years where city-states fought against each other in Sumeria, and burned rival cities to the ground. (See-Mythology of the Babylonian people by Donald A. Mackenzie )

Along comes Nimrod. Probably alive during the original rebellion, as he was son of Cush (2nd generation after the ark) and probably a co-conspirator who's language was changed, later has the opportunity to conquer. Assuming the life expectancies were true (Noah was said to live 350 years after the flood), Nimrod could have lived long enough to not only be alive during the building of the tower of Babel, but also lived through a period of dissension to conquer previously established cities. The biblical account refers to the beginnings of Nimrod's empire as Babylon, Erech, Akkad, Calneh, then he went out and built Ninevah, Rehoboth Ir, Calah, And Resen. He most likely did not "found" these cities, but "conquered" and "fortified" (built) them.

All evidence that I have ever looked at points to Sargon of Akkad being the most likely candidate for the biblical Nimrod, but it is highly inconclusive.

Correction, a short inventory of my contribution to this thread: An inconsequential detail, a hunch and a questionable claim.

Again, good luck to the Nimrod search party.

a reply to: Byrd
a reply to: MaxTamesSiva
Not to mention the efficacious billionaire's website has two glaring spelling errors on the important home page:

originally posted by: kef33890
a reply to: Marduk

Oh boy... Here we go... I'm surprised at your straightforward and oblivious claims that defies your name "Marduk"! No offense, but do you know Mesopotamian history as well as you think?

Ninurta, god (lowercase g...) of hunting and war, which is a precursor to god Marduk. The latter was a late period conglomeration of gods (including Ninurta). I'm not even throwing my biblical views into your face, as I'm just stating a fact.

Ninurta predates Nimrod, some scholars believe that Nimrod was based on him. So thanks, but apparently you don't know half as much about this subject as you think you do. This is usually the case with Biblical apologists like you.

We already had to put up with your nonsense about Nimrods wall in Jordan. this thread is no different. You would do far better to actually listen to what the experts are telling you here, rather than making poor excuses to explain away the facts

a reply to: kef33890 Wasn't his wife called "The Queen of Heaven" and the "Mother of God" and had 12 stars above her head ?

oh and also that the catholic religion is a replica of that?


Did you come across that info in your research?

a reply to: SargonThrall
Maybe this Nimrod Group?

Or this Nimrod Group?

originally posted by: MaxTamesSiva
a reply to: SargonThrall
Maybe this Nimrod Group?

Or this Nimrod Group?

The first is aerospace and not associated with any Rothschilds.

The second is 404 (nonexistent... click on them -) AND if you bring up the RAF site and back through the links, "Coast to Coast " is a bicycle team www.raf.mod.uk... - that was doing a charity ride in 2009.

The defunct UK Nimrod group can be accessed by a search through the Wayback Machine and given the number of spelling and grammatical errors on that site, I suspect it was the same sort of thing as the other "Nimrod group" that I found. Wayback shows that the site was ONLY active for one year (2010), probably set up to help "sell" someone's (fake) version of history.

Other "Nimrod" references are to planes - the Hawker Siddeley Nimrod en.wikipedia.org... .