good and evil is a thing

first off ive seen it

its a real thing

those that think its a scientific and or human construct are lost

and i learned why ones are lost

it is the most purist forms of deception

and it works very well



sorry just need to get that out i had a horrible conversation last night

I believe you.

Wine is good.

Hangovers are evil....and I have to work tomorrow.

I think the quote in the video you posted is a little off, it should be: "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is God".

"Satan" (which is purely a concept and not an actual living thing) has fooled billions into believing that he is God. Look at the hypocrisy of most if not all religions in today's world and you'll see why I believe this is so.

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
good and evil is a thing

Of course!
All 'good', and all 'evil', exists in the (vain, judgmental) eye (imagination/ego) of the beholder!

"We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are!"

Oh, sorry, if I knew that you were going to start babbling childish nonsense about "the Devil' as if a real being, and not imaginary, I wouldn't have wasted my time...

a reply to: DOCHOLIDAZE1

Huh????

So good and evil are actual things???

Like physical things???

I don't get what you mean.

a reply to: DOCHOLIDAZE1

This is something I've thought about a lot over the years and sometimes I think, yeah, maybe there is evil. For the rest of the time I don't believe in evil.

The Rwandan massacres shook my world-view and created a seed of belief in some type of evil force. The same can be said after seeing the liberation footage of concentration camps in 1944/5. Mix in the scandals of Rochdale in England and it's easier to allow for evil in the world than accepting people can be detestable.

Even now, what Islamic State are doing makes me wonder. They're on a mission to end the world and kill as many people as possible on the way. They're raping and torturing as they go and literally want to burn the world behind them as they ascend to heaven. That's pretty damned evil, huh?

The thing is, nothing that happens is beyond the will of mortal man and woman. Some individuals mete out psychological abuse to people in their lives every day. Others rape and torture whilst groups sell heroin and crack in their own communities to improve their lives at the cost of everyone else. We have murderers, bullies and 100% assholes all over the place.

We're our own worst enemies.

a reply to: mOjOm

as opposed to it being somthing that humans just invented as some would claim

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: mOjOm

as opposed to it being somthing that humans just invented as some would claim

That still doesn't answer what I'm asking though. What do you mean they exist as a thing?? How do they exist as a thing in the context of what you're saying???

Because to me "Good and Evil" are Concepts. There isn't a "Thing" of Good or Evil. They are ideas or the meaning which we bestow on things or events.

They are also Subjective and Relative as well. Meaning they will change depending upon who's labeling it (Subjective) and is in relation to it's opposite on the scale of Good and Evil (Relative). This is the reason why what is considered to be Good or Evil will change depending upon who it is you're talking to.

Although this is debatable to some degree too. Usually taking on one or more of the following labels.

Relative = depends on something else before it can be evaluated.
Absolute = exists independently; non-comparative
Subjective = left to the individual to evaluate.
Objective = something not influenced by personal opinion; fact-based.

So, how are you trying to label this "Good and Evil Thing"???

a reply to: Kandinsky

I have been the victim of injustices so great that I wept until I ran out of tears. I have seen a hell so deep that it left a scar in my soul.

Sure, most instances in the world are often too fuzzy to be considered either "evil" or "good", where the definition can be blurred by subjectivity. But there are also are moments, places, people where clear-cut, absolute darkness reigns supreme.

Evil is a real thing. It is composed of selfishness, and it propagates through the desire for retribution.

a reply to: swanne

Usually Evil is said to be the "intentional harming of another living being". Which takes into account two things. The Intent as well as the act. This means that we can have different outcomes.

If I intend to cause you harm and succeed it is considered Evil in both cases.
If I intend to cause you harm but fail or possibly cure you, it's still evil intent but with a good unintended result.
If I don't intend to cause you harm but do, it's not considered to be morally evil because my intent wasn't evil.
If I don't intend to cause you harm and don't, it's considered to be not evil or labeled as Good.

The top example and bottom example are clearly the easiest to decide upon. It's those two in the middle which are in the gray area and can vary depending on who you are talking to.

This is an example of Morality being "Relative but Objective" rather than "Relative and Subjective". Which might be correct. I haven't yet decided for sure yet.

a reply to: mOjOm

I can actually agree with such a model.

a reply to: swanne

Most people do. However, it's not without it's problems though either. For example, a situation where you punish a criminal. Let's say you sentence a murderer to death. Let's say also that the murderer intended on that murder just to make it more clear.

Now, obviously the murderer intended on killing someone which makes both his intent and actions evil. But, if we are considering Evil to be Objective that would also mean punishing him would also be evil as well because the intent is also to cause them harm.

So at that point we can either leave Evil as being Objective and have both the murderer and those who punish them as evil. Or conclude that evil is Subjective which would allow for his punishment to no longer be considered as evil anymore. But, if we do that it then brings into question of whether or not his murder is Evil or not.

This is where the problem is as far as I can tell and I'm not sure if there is an answer for it or not as of yet.

a reply to: swanne

I hesitate to assert 'Evil' exists as long it deflects responsibility from those who display, or commit, actions that are contemptible and destructive. The old Nuremberg two-step of 'following orders' is similarly deflective. Mental illness, abnormal brain structures and even lesions can cause individuals to commit atrocities.

Think of post-partum depression and mothers killing their young. Or the damage inflicted on the young by abusive parents; these things lead to broken personalities. Not to mention psychopaths...

Don't get me wrong, although I'm in the rationalist camp I have moments when 'Evil' seems like the most comforting explanation for what goes on in this world.

a reply to: mOjOm

Actually it all boils down to wether you consider retribution a moral thing or not.

I personally don't, I find that retribution only propagates evil, it doesn't solve it.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I understand. Though I personally would use the term "evil" not as a deflection method, but as a qualification of the persons responsible for destructive / selfish actions.

a reply to: swanne

Aye. It's one of those terms that calls to mind the blind guys touching up an elephant and then having a conversation at cross purposes.

Evil means so many things to different people

a reply to: Kandinsky

Indeed.

dont you have to be religious to beleive in evil?
i think even in biblical terms its a pretty riddiculous concept.

a reply to: namelesss

just used a favorite movie of mine to give a little color to the thread never said anything about the bible, i consider your immediate un -justified slight the most childish thing in the thread please rethink you meaningless comment. or not, it seems you have already formulated an opinion that will not change due to your "heroic resolve"

a reply to: Rikku

i have never seen such pre-req's for believing in good and evil do u have a reference?