Here Be Dragons...

RE: the feathered serpent...a key difference between birds and reptiles is the beak. So, while I firmly believe humans were well acquainted with terror birds, especially in the Americas...thinking a terror bird is a feathered serpent requires ignoring the beak. Beyond that, experience with bipedal lizards is more limited.

That isn't to say I don't agree. Because I do....i agree that the feathered serpent was real in some way as a very rare animal in the daily lives of ancient mesoamericans, and it got more rare as time went on.

The shoebill looks pretty ancient. It wouldn't be beyond contemplation that a beakless bird existed within the last 10k years. Maybe a few beakless birds of varying sizes and temperaments scattered across the globe? In that case it'd be certain that Australia would have had the biggest and meanest of them all, probably with venomous stingers or something. LOL

RE: larger hominids...the only issue with that is evidence. That said, there IS evidence of a huge unknown. So we are still kinda left waiting to see what this mystery hominid in our genetic make up is. We do know Gigantopithicus existed, although it wasn't very hominid compared to the species subsequent to erectus and heidelbergensis.

I think if you want to find the best source of information on things like feathered serpents, ancient man, and the deep/dark recesses of our mythology, you have to search under oceans. Sea level rises and flood/silt likely hold the history we are talking about.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: SLAYER69

In "The Cosmic Serpent - DNA and the Origins of Knowledge" by Jeremy Narby, an Anthropologist investigating correlations between world wide serpent myths and DNA (trust me, you just have to read it), the Native American Thunderbird is also related to the South American feathered serpent gods.

I agree there could have been a species of feathered giant serpent though, which certainly seems possible. Dragons seem to be dinosaur-like.

Thanks for a thought provoking OP.

This is intriguing.

"Related", when it comes to birds, could mean "the same", too.

Not too far from here is the winter home of a species of crane that spends its summers in southern Siberia. One of many species of crane that spend a lot of time in this area, and migrate enormous distances to get here. Transhemispheric seasonal migration is not unheard of, and would seem to be logical for larger birds capable of long distance flight.

Great thread Slayer

This planets history runs deep. Many events have happened, many civilizations have erected and been buried in the sands of time.

My personal leaning on biological creatures of earth; I believe homo walked with the dinosaurs at one point.
Also, before dinosaurs were the dominate species of Earth, I believe that is only the case for the wild. As opposed to a domesticated civilization.

As bears and predators own our wild, and humans are hopeless to stand up to such creatures... (without tools, weapons) the homo has always domesticated itself from the wild.

Their unnatural biology is no match for that of the creatures of the wild, which are evolutionarily-built for it.
Homo stays in groups, and dominates by collective thought and execution of "plans" and concepts. They create tools/weapons, things to assist them in the wild.

Where dinosaurs and predators are animalistic, are lead by that form of. The homo always thought outside the box so to speak, that's how we've survived and expanded from our ancestors and genus.

Now on topic with your thread. I DO lean towards the theory that; just as homo evolved and became intelligent enough to erect it's civilizations and survive the harsh wild....

So did a bi-pedal reptilian species. Almost like parallel evolution, of the two different species.
Such a creature you posted a picture of in your OP, this bi-pedal could of evolved from that, as we did from primate.

Would be like apes vs reptiles, their evolution from their original genus.

The evolution of these two different species were parallel on the same planet. Seeing how homo can be very savage and downright evil, they kill anything they feel threatened of.. the bi-pedal reptilian most likely (if even existed) had to retreat to a different environment as not to be erased by the homo genus.

This retreat is within the Earth itself. The easy "excuse" of course, because we don't explore deeeeep in the earth en mass, to find the "ins and outs" of earth via mega-cavern/tunnel systems.

Then there are stories of cave explorers encountering species in the earth.. that's a topic on its own, but may relate to what being said here.

So all these cultures who revere and have history of the old serpent/dragon beings.. could be encounters with a bi-pedal reptilian being that evolved paralell to homo genus, maybe even retreated for "saftey".

Rather adapt to the harsh environments, and behave like savages, their development could of been more wisdom/knowledge base.

Or the animalistic mind vs "God head".

Hence we have humans worshipping and revering serpents and dragons.. not the other way around.

But the proof is in the pudding... we HAVE tons of historical evidence that our ancestors were influenced by serpents.

It's even written in the bi-bull.

I'm curious what you think of this concept Slayer?

a reply to: Elementalist

See

Here's the deal

Maybe we shouldn't be stuck on "Homo" Neanderthal and Denisovan are our cousins and we carry their genes. They left Africa longer before we did. They may have encountered numerous creatures long before we showed up. Maybe the myths and legends are from those sides of the family line? We do carry their genes and did have a long enough period for myths and stories to be passed between the two or three lines while all the "Fraternizing" took place?

a reply to: SLAYER69

At a given point in time in history some species developed intelligence. Either that develops naturally, or it is planted somehow. It is feasible that the first intelligent creatures were some type of dinosaur. There must have been many, many ELE's in those days and any intelligent species that survived those events will have thought about how to prevent being exterminated whenever a new ELE came along. So, like humans did later on, the early intelligent creatures went underground. It may be that they have been down there, for millions of years, safe and sound. They either found natural hide-outs, or created some. And after being down there for so long, they probably adapted to their new enviroments. They became smarter and smarter and finally learned how to create a race of servants, which they bio-engineered themselves, probably using both their own genetical make-up and that of mammal bidpeds that already lived on the surface. Humans. Later they engineered a new class: the Grey.

I say they are out there - but not up there. We don't know zilch about what happens on the inside of our own planet, even in very populated areas we sometimes discover new buried cities, by sheer coincidence.

We should be looking down, not up..

a reply to: SLAYER69
I posted something on this earlier. I finally found the video again, if you're interested in viewing it. It's about the "demon flyers" of Papua New Guinea. These creatures are said to have at least a 30 foot wingspan, are nocturnal, bio luminescent, a crested head, a beak full of razor sharp teeth, and has been known to attack humans. Is it a pterodactyl? Is it simply a crane or other bird that has been misidentified and reports of attacks are bunk? Anywho, enjoy!



ETA: My sweety is from the highlands and has never heard of these. I'm guessing they're more in the coastal and island areas.

a reply to: SLAYER69

What is your input on the bi-pedal reptilian concept?

Furthermore then, everyone always talks about Africa. .. I understand that is where we have FOUND the oldest known bones, there could be older unfounded, deeper in the strata of earth.

What about Antarctica or the polar north? We are to just assume that it's always been frozen? It wasn't temperate like NA currently once upon a time?

Yes speculation is best we can do until true excavation takes place in these now remote areas. But underneath that ice shelf is surely land mass that possibly one day, was simular to NA or Europe present?

I'm less curious about where bones are found as you can see, because we haven't excavated and dug deep enough, especially in remote areas.

I'm very curious about anot her bi-pedal species being worshipped by our own in cultures the world over.

Thanks Slayer

a reply to: Elementalist

Reptilians.

Some believe they evolved and had left the planet before we came on the scene.

I'm not sure if that's the case but there sure had been far enough time between the two groups for that to have transpired.

Here's something that may give us a hint of how they may have evolved..... The Claw

a reply to: SLAYER69
Well, if you rely on blurry images then you could construe them in any way which fits your supposition. Not to sound rude, of course, but it is true. Using a high resolution photo from the old Bonampak Documentation Project, you can see rather clearly that it appears more like an angler fish, than anything:


Note the short tail, gills, pectoral fin, antennae on the head


This is a scene wherein victorious warriors in a variety of headdresses (presumably representing different allied areas) are torturing and sacrificing defeated captives - note how they have had their fingernails ripped out. I would suspect an angler fish, which is common in Mexican waters, would logically represent a group near the coast.

[Sorry, had to figure out how to link high definition photos]

a reply to: SargonThrall

You're probably on the mark, However I just realized I blew up the wrong section of that image. Thanks for a higher res one..

a reply to: SLAYER69
Regardless, they are ceremonial headdresses, and not necessarily subject to accuracy in scale. I would suggest this to be a local crocodile or caiman, or even more likely, a Guatelamalan Milk Snake:



Note that they can have red heads. I am not trying to dissuade your argument, I just believe if these were real giant dinosaurs, they would be more popular among warriors. Notice the jaguar is the most common thematic element.

a reply to: SLAYER69
Their headresses are indicitive of their skill level of 'seeing', 'feeling', 'affecting' and 'reach', which by the
same token indicates a level of 'assistance' much like how we would view a modern 'mentor' in physical form or not.

It's just one opinion