AZ Repulicans freak out when atheist gets to speak opening prayer

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You can lift your hands to God and then put them to work, or not lift them and not put them to work.

That's it? Those are the only two options? You left something out. You left out lifting your hands and doing nothing else. Of course, that never would happen though, right? Everyone who prays then gets down and gets their hands dirty. Sure, they do. You also left out the option of just getting to work, without the pointless lifting of hands.

From YOUR source

I posted that link because it provided a transcript of the invocation, how it was editorialized is not my concern.

I already gave an example of an inclusive speech I would have been fine with.

I'm fine with what he said. I see no disparagement, just encouragement. Encouragement to action and a call against hypocrisy.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

originally posted by: Phage

That's it? Those are the only two options? You left something out. You left out lifting your hands and doing nothing else. Of course, that never would happen though, right? Everyone who prays then gets down and gets their hands dirty. Sure, they do.

I believe you miscounted in your haste to defend the indefensible. I have four options listed. The two you just listed are the two from the speech. It's funny that your "those are the only two options" comment which was intended to show how I was wrong is actually the argument I used to show he was wrong. Now just to be clear, not all people with faith help, but they are much more likely to help directly than atheists, which is completely against the message in this speech.

I posted that link because it provided a transcript of the invocation, how it was editorialized is not my concern.

So the fact YOUR source believed the message was perfectly clear and was exactly what I said the message was should be ignored. Got it.

I'm fine with what he said. I see no disparagement, just encouragement. Encouragement to action.

Then you choose not to. I saw it immediately. I initially thought this would be a huge overreaction and had no problem with an atheist giving the prayer. When I read what he actually said it was clear he was being divisive, perhaps unintentionally and he is so biased he just can't help but throw in anti-Christian jabs.

If he wants to encourage people to action he should start with the group least likely to take action .. atheists.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

So there is nothing at all higher than you? You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I believe you miscounted in your haste to defend the indefensible. I have four options listed.

No, just two.

You can lift your hands to God and then put them to work, or not lift them and not put them to work.

I see the word "or" one time. That indicates two options. Boolean logic. You have provided two options, separated with a comma.

Now just to be clear, not all people with faith help, but they are much more likely to help directly than atheists

Your opinion, nothing more.

So the fact YOUR source believed the message was perfectly clear and was exactly what I said the message was should be ignored.

Your opinion is yours as is that of the editor of the article.

If he wants to encourage people to action he should start with the group least likely to take action .. atheists.

Heaven forbid he should talk about people in general.

At least I have been both Christian and atheist. I know both sides.

Interestingly when I first stepped completely out of the "God Circle" - - the first thing that hit me was Now. Everything is right now. You are personally responsible and you do it right now, just because it needs to be done.

No thinking about what might bring the bigger reward. No asking an imaginary being if its OK. Just do it.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

So there is nothing at all higher than you? You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

No higher power.

Beneath? Seriously?

Why is that scary?

originally posted by: PhageNo, just two.

I see the word "or" one time. That indicates two options. Boolean logic. You have provided two options, separated with a comma.

Yes, I provided two IN ADDITION to the two already listed. If you had taken my full quote and not quoted part out of context it's quite clear.

Yes, and it's clear who does something, non religious people. Otherwise whether you lift your hands to God or do not is of no matter. You can lift your hands to God and then put them to work, or not lift them and not put them to work. His words make no sense unless he meant what I said he meant

So I clearly said it's quite clear what he is saying, religious people do nothing (1), non religious people do direct work (2), and then I added the other two options of religious people doing direct work (3) and non religious people doing nothing (4).

My quote had all 4 options in it, and was my rebuttal to his speech only listing two. And here you come along saying WHY list only two? That is exactly my question ... answer ... to be divisive.

Your opinion, nothing more.

No it's actually been researched. It's not an opinion. It's simple truth. I already sourced it.

The more important religion is to a person, the more likely that person is to give to a charity of any kind, according to new research released today.

Among Americans who claim a religious affiliation, the study said, 65 percent give to charity. Among those who do not identify a religious creed, 56 percent make charitable gifts.

"Three quarters of people in living in England who practise a religion (77%) have given to charity in the past month. This compares to only two thirds of English people who do not practise a religion (67%)."

www.secularism.org.uk...
philanthropy.com...
www.patheos.com...

It stopped being an opinion when I sourced it. You can argue all day long the why's and how's and whatever else you want, it's a fact people of faith are more likely to give.

Your opinion is yours as is that of the editor of the article.

His speech makes no sense in any other context, anyone who is unbiased sees what he is saying.

Heaven forbid he should talk about people in general.

Except he did not, he specifically singled out religious people as those who do indirect action and atheists as leading the charge in direct action. It's false. Had he not made the comparison and talked about everyone without singling groups out I would be in agreement. He chose to be divisive.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

So there is nothing at all higher than you? You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

No higher power.

Beneath? Seriously?

Why is that scary?

The fact you think you are above everything in the Universe and that there is nothing at all above you, no moral code, no legal code, nothing at all, just you at the top ... scary.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

So there is nothing at all higher than you? You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

No higher power.

Beneath? Seriously?

Why is that scary?

The fact you think you are above everything in the Universe and that there is nothing at all above you, no moral code, no legal code, nothing at all, just you at the top ... scary.

That is your thinking.

Don't project it onto me.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

So there is nothing at all higher than you? You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

No higher power.

Beneath? Seriously?

Why is that scary?

The fact you think you are above everything in the Universe and that there is nothing at all above you, no moral code, no legal code, nothing at all, just you at the top ... scary.

That is your thinking.

Don't project it onto me.

No, you said anyone with a belief in a higher power belongs in a mental health ward. It's your thinking, it's your actual words. I then made sure of what your belief was by asking you if anything at all was above you. You again said no. Don't act like you did not say it, you did, I will quote you.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

originally posted by: Annee

No higher power.

Beneath? Seriously?

Why is that scary?

So it sounds like after saying the need to include a higher power is ridiculous and you have none .. that you do have a higher power and something you consider above yourself.

People should not let their bias make them ignorant and foolish.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yes, I provided two IN ADDITION to the two already listed. If you had taken my full quote and not quoted part out of context it's quite clear.

No. Two options only. Where is the option to lift your hands and do nothing else? I still don't see that in your list. Not to mention the option to not lift your hands before putting them to work.

(1), non religious people do direct work (2), and then I added the other two options of religious people doing direct work (3) and non religious people doing nothing (4).

No it's actually been researched. It's not an opinion. It's simple truth. I already sourced it.

Your source:

But when you excluded donations given to churches and religious groups, the map changed dramatically, giving an edge to the least religious states in the country:

A lot of religious giving, then, is self-serving, in the guise of helping others. Often, the donations benefit their faith.

www.patheos.com...

Except he did not, he specifically singled out religious people as those who do indirect action and atheists as leading the charge in direct action.

No, he did not single out atheists. He singled out those who actually do something.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

So there is nothing at all higher than you? You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

No higher power.

Beneath? Seriously?

Why is that scary?

The fact you think you are above everything in the Universe and that there is nothing at all above you, no moral code, no legal code, nothing at all, just you at the top ... scary.

That is your thinking.

Don't project it onto me.

No, you said anyone with a belief in a higher power belongs in a mental health ward. It's your thinking, it's your actual words.

I also said basically "Here's your mirror" - - because all I did was mirror your exact words with a couple changes.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

So it sounds like after saying the need to include a higher power is ridiculous and you have none .. that you do have a higher power and something you consider above yourself.

People should not let their bias make them ignorant and foolish.

What are you even talking about?

Do you know?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee
How is this even OK? ". . . house rules requiring that prayers invoke a higher power."

How is this even allowed in our government?

Higher power =/= God

If any person believes they are the highest power in the Universe they should probably be in a mental health setting, as a patient.

You want to look in a mirror? If any person believes there is a higher power they should probably be in a mental health setting - - as a patient.

God does not belong in a secular government.

So there is nothing at all higher than you? You personally are the highest power in the Universe? There is no belief system or moral code above you? All is beneath you? That is scary.

No higher power.

Beneath? Seriously?

Why is that scary?

The fact you think you are above everything in the Universe and that there is nothing at all above you, no moral code, no legal code, nothing at all, just you at the top ... scary.

That is your thinking.

Don't project it onto me.

No, you said anyone with a belief in a higher power belongs in a mental health ward. It's your thinking, it's your actual words.

I also said basically "Here's your mirror" - - because all I did was mirror your exact words with a couple changes.

Which made what you said ridiculous, so ridiculous you eventually said I was projecting and you never said that .. even though I quoted you saying it. Now you have gone back to admitting you said it, after saying I was projecting and you never said it.

Want to know how you can tell you are on the wrong side of an issue? When you need to keep changing your story.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

So it sounds like after saying the need to include a higher power is ridiculous and you have none .. that you do have a higher power and something you consider above yourself.

People should not let their bias make them ignorant and foolish.

What are you even talking about?

Do you know?

Yes, that anyone without a belief in some higher power is unfit for office. Even if your higher power is some moral or legal code, you have one. If you think you are above everything and nothing is over you, then you probably belong in a mental health setting, as a patient.

What are you talking about, and do you know?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Ya Annee! Jesus get with the program...

God + Government = Win

originally posted by: Esoterotica
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Ya Annee! Jesus get with the program...

God + Government = Win

I fail to see what God has to do with it. Can you show me what God has to do with someone having a moral code as their higher power?

Or are you actually in agreement with me and just so biased you can't help but post something ignorant, knowing it's wrong, and simply not caring?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

So it sounds like after saying the need to include a higher power is ridiculous and you have none .. that you do have a higher power and something you consider above yourself.

People should not let their bias make them ignorant and foolish.

What are you even talking about?

Do you know?

Yes, that anyone without a belief in some higher power is unfit for office. Even if your higher power is some moral or legal code, you have one. If you think you are above everything and nothing is over you, then you probably belong in a mental health setting, as a patient.

What are you talking about, and do you know?

What is above and below?