Clinton won the Presidency today and I am sad.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

General welfare of the United States..... Does not say citizens, and definitely doesn't say individual welfare.

The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about semi-automatic firearms.

Can you see the fallacy in that line of thinking?

It says general welfare, which is different than individual welfare.
The second says arms, which makes it difficult restrict to a specific.
The Constitution is pretty clear when it speaks of citizens, states, common, general... general means overall... not individuals.
Citizens should get payment from the government for services rendered.

I simple don't understand why our government can't be used to make benefit or money for WE THE PEOPLE? Just imagine if the government were working for us and not a few thousand Million and billionaires.


The government should be sending us checks, they work for us and yet they take and take.

Every cent they take is spent and they spend part of it financing the debt for the money that they spent that they didn't have.
The government does pay some people.
Just watch when you are in line to pay for your groceries. More often than not, I see an EBT card come out to pay for others food.

I would much rather them send me the money they spend on tanks, guns, bombs and bullets and let me defend myself.

I personally would rather give my tax money to fill stomachs, but I know everyone has different priorities.

Too bad all of us can't elect where our money goes to.

a reply to: reldra

Get out of here with your semantics! Memes are god.

originally posted by: neo96
That fabulous DELUSION of universal 'healthcare'!

As it stands right now the US government is the largest healthcare insurer in the country today.

There is no single 'private' corporation that has over 100 million people on their rolls,

Medicare,and Medicaid, and Tricare are currently costing us over $1 trillion per YEAR.

Ya know those programs where everyone is using it, hardly ANYONE is paying for it. Which is why there are NEW TAXES to pay for it.

That's how Universal healthcare works.

I do not see how anyone would support the STATE creating a super monopoly on a CORPORATE product.

Anyone who wants 'universal' healthcare deserves the Darwin award.

you miss the point. People just want to be able to live, and ease their pain and not die. That's the only reason people like ObamaCare, medicaid, medicare or Universal Healthcare. It keeps people out of pain and alive.

What would you propose to people that can't afford healthcare or health insurance?

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

General welfare of the United States..... Does not say citizens, and definitely doesn't say individual welfare.

The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about semi-automatic firearms.

Can you see the fallacy in that line of thinking?

It says general welfare, which is different than individual welfare.
The second says arms, which makes it difficult restrict to a specific.
The Constitution is pretty clear when it speaks of citizens, states, common, general... general means overall... not individuals.
Citizens should get payment from the government for services rendered.

I simple don't understand why our government can't be used to make benefit or money for WE THE PEOPLE? Just imagine if the government were working for us and not a few thousand Million and billionaires.


The government should be sending us checks, they work for us and yet they take and take.

Every cent they take is spent and they spend part of it financing the debt for the money that they spent that they didn't have.
The government does pay some people.
Just watch when you are in line to pay for your groceries. More often than not, I see an EBT card come out to pay for others food.

I would much rather them send me the money they spend on tanks, guns, bombs and bullets and let me defend myself.

I personally would rather give my tax money to fill stomachs, but I know everyone has different priorities.

Too bad all of us can't elect where our money goes to.

Trust me, I don't want people to starve.
But I have seen plenty of fraud in the welfare state. ( prepared for flames and everyone telling me that there is no proof of widespread welfare fraud)

I would like to see food and housing handled at a local level versus federal.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

General welfare of the United States..... Does not say citizens, and definitely doesn't say individual welfare.

The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about semi-automatic firearms.

Can you see the fallacy in that line of thinking?

It says general welfare, which is different than individual welfare.
The second says arms, which makes it difficult restrict to a specific.
The Constitution is pretty clear when it speaks of citizens, states, common, general... general means overall... not individuals.
Citizens should get payment from the government for services rendered.

I simple don't understand why our government can't be used to make benefit or money for WE THE PEOPLE? Just imagine if the government were working for us and not a few thousand Million and billionaires.


The government should be sending us checks, they work for us and yet they take and take.

Every cent they take is spent and they spend part of it financing the debt for the money that they spent that they didn't have.
The government does pay some people.
Just watch when you are in line to pay for your groceries. More often than not, I see an EBT card come out to pay for others food.

I would much rather them send me the money they spend on tanks, guns, bombs and bullets and let me defend myself.

I personally would rather give my tax money to fill stomachs, but I know everyone has different priorities.

Too bad all of us can't elect where our money goes to.

Trust me, I don't want people to starve.
But I have seen plenty of fraud in the welfare state. ( prepared for flames and everyone telling me that there is no proof of widespread welfare fraud)

I would like to see food and housing handled at a local level versus federal.

Except local governments dont' usually have the money to do it and Church giving is spoty at best. So for the real people that need help, disabled, especially our disabled Vets with real mental problems and no way to make a living...how do we help them?

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

General welfare of the United States..... Does not say citizens, and definitely doesn't say individual welfare.

The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about semi-automatic firearms.

Can you see the fallacy in that line of thinking?

It says general welfare, which is different than individual welfare.
The second says arms, which makes it difficult restrict to a specific.
The Constitution is pretty clear when it speaks of citizens, states, common, general... general means overall... not individuals.
Citizens should get payment from the government for services rendered.

I simple don't understand why our government can't be used to make benefit or money for WE THE PEOPLE? Just imagine if the government were working for us and not a few thousand Million and billionaires.


The government should be sending us checks, they work for us and yet they take and take.

Every cent they take is spent and they spend part of it financing the debt for the money that they spent that they didn't have.
The government does pay some people.
Just watch when you are in line to pay for your groceries. More often than not, I see an EBT card come out to pay for others food.

I would much rather them send me the money they spend on tanks, guns, bombs and bullets and let me defend myself.

I personally would rather give my tax money to fill stomachs, but I know everyone has different priorities.

Too bad all of us can't elect where our money goes to.

Trust me, I don't want people to starve.
But I have seen plenty of fraud in the welfare state. ( prepared for flames and everyone telling me that there is no proof of widespread welfare fraud)

I would like to see food and housing handled at a local level versus federal.

I know there is fraud and I also know many who were able to ride out the economic disaster by the grace of various forms of welfare after having many applications denied.

It is a hard one IMO.

a reply to: butcherguy

Can you define general welfare and list what things should be included in that clause?

Does having more people in poverty help protect the general welfare of this nation?

Does more people without the ability to see a doctor, without incurring massive debt, protect the general welfare of this country?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

Can you define general welfare and list what things should be included in that clause?

Does having more people in poverty help protect the general welfare of this nation?

Does more people without the ability to see a doctor, without incurring massive debt, protect the general welfare of this country?

China seems to be doing ok, and Mao Zedong wrote off 15 million of his citizens to starvation that he caused during the 'Great Leap Forward'.
When did the economy of the US thrive the most, before or after our war on poverty?

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

Can you define general welfare and list what things should be included in that clause?

Does having more people in poverty help protect the general welfare of this nation?

Does more people without the ability to see a doctor, without incurring massive debt, protect the general welfare of this country?

China seems to be doing ok, and Mao Zedong wrote off 15 million of his citizens to starvation that he caused during the 'Great Leap Forward'.
When did the economy of the US thrive the most, before or after our war on poverty?

When did China's economy thrive, before or after Mao died? Also, our economy was at its height as a result of social programs implemented during the Great Depression (the first war on poverty). In fact, our social safety net was at its peek with a progressive tax plan approaching 90% for the richest people in the country.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

Can you define general welfare and list what things should be included in that clause?

Does having more people in poverty help protect the general welfare of this nation?

Does more people without the ability to see a doctor, without incurring massive debt, protect the general welfare of this country?

China seems to be doing ok, and Mao Zedong wrote off 15 million of his citizens to starvation that he caused during the 'Great Leap Forward'.
When did the economy of the US thrive the most, before or after our war on poverty?

It was after WWII when the majority of global production was shifted to the US after production in Europe and Asia was destroyed by war.

Of course tax rates under Eisenhower were also 90% for top earners... The GI bill also helped educate millions of people who transformed that education into expertise and higher paying positions in the work force.

That combination of circumstances saw the highest job and earnings ratio we have ever seen.

If you think your only option is to punch the ticket of an R or a D you need to put the kool aid down, that is the narrative driven by the two parties controlling our system.
Anyone else remember the time after Perot ran for president, he scared them so much congress was actually productive for a couple years.

Saw a blurb recently that 43% of registered americans are independent or unaffiliated... yet people constantly punch the ticket of an R or a D, WHY?

Find someone you believe in and work hard for them... stop with the party politics, the only politics we should care about are what makes our country better, for the majority of the people.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

Can you define general welfare and list what things should be included in that clause?

Does having more people in poverty help protect the general welfare of this nation?

Does more people without the ability to see a doctor, without incurring massive debt, protect the general welfare of this country?

China seems to be doing ok, and Mao Zedong wrote off 15 million of his citizens to starvation that he caused during the 'Great Leap Forward'.
When did the economy of the US thrive the most, before or after our war on poverty?

When did China's economy thrive, before or after Mao died? Also, our economy was at its height as a result of social programs implemented during the Great Depression (the first war on poverty). In fact, our social safety net was at its peek with a progressive tax plan approaching 90% for the richest people in the country.

this is true about taxes. But what is left out is that the people taxed at the 90% level also had tax policies in place to
reduce their taxes by investing in American industry. Now the tax rate is lowered and it is not encouraged to invest in America, and then the politicians push policies that divert the tax burden to the middle class on top of it.

a reply to: butcherguy

You're tossing-in a red herring.

Can you answer the specific questions I asked?

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

Can you define general welfare and list what things should be included in that clause?

Does having more people in poverty help protect the general welfare of this nation?

Does more people without the ability to see a doctor, without incurring massive debt, protect the general welfare of this country?

China seems to be doing ok, and Mao Zedong wrote off 15 million of his citizens to starvation that he caused during the 'Great Leap Forward'.
When did the economy of the US thrive the most, before or after our war on poverty?

When did China's economy thrive, before or after Mao died? Also, our economy was at its height as a result of social programs implemented during the Great Depression (the first war on poverty). In fact, our social safety net was at its peek with a progressive tax plan approaching 90% for the richest people in the country.

this is true about taxes. But what is left out is that the people taxed at the 90% level also had tax policies in place to
reduce their taxes by investing in American industry. Now the tax rate is lowered and it is not encouraged to invest in America, and then the politicians push policies that divert the tax burden to the middle class on top of it.

Good points. We've literally actively walked away from all the things that made us wildly economically successful in the past and now pretend like they not only don't work, but would actually HARM our country. Bizzaro world.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
If you think your only option is to punch the ticket of an R or a D you need to put the kool aid down, that is the narrative driven by the two parties controlling our system.
Anyone else remember the time after Perot ran for president, he scared them so much congress was actually productive for a couple years.

Saw a blurb recently that 43% of registered americans are independent or unaffiliated... yet people constantly punch the ticket of an R or a D, WHY?

Find someone you believe in and work hard for them... stop with the party politics, the only politics we should care about are what makes our country better, for the majority of the people.

American politics is really about identity and that is what the world does not get.

It is really about the kind of, culture, morality and image you identify with and has practically nothing to do with policies or results.

George W Bush grew government every year, created entirely new government agencies, increased the debt every year, laid the ground work for federally sanctioned spying and eroded civil liberties, yet the people who claim to hate big government and big spending voted for him TWICE. Tens of millions of Americans voted for him because he used a Texas style accent even though he was born on the East coast far from Texas.

America is identity politics through and through

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: butcherguy

General welfare of the United States..... Does not say citizens, and definitely doesn't say individual welfare.

The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about semi-automatic firearms.

Can you see the fallacy in that line of thinking?

It says general welfare, which is different than individual welfare.
The second says arms, which makes it difficult restrict to a specific.
The Constitution is pretty clear when it speaks of citizens, states, common, general... general means overall... not individuals.
Citizens should get payment from the government for services rendered.

I simple don't understand why our government can't be used to make benefit or money for WE THE PEOPLE? Just imagine if the government were working for us and not a few thousand Million and billionaires.


The government should be sending us checks, they work for us and yet they take and take.

Every cent they take is spent and they spend part of it financing the debt for the money that they spent that they didn't have.
The government does pay some people.
Just watch when you are in line to pay for your groceries. More often than not, I see an EBT card come out to pay for others food.

I would much rather them send me the money they spend on tanks, guns, bombs and bullets and let me defend myself.

I personally would rather give my tax money to fill stomachs, but I know everyone has different priorities.

Too bad all of us can't elect where our money goes to.

Trust me, I don't want people to starve.
But I have seen plenty of fraud in the welfare state. ( prepared for flames and everyone telling me that there is no proof of widespread welfare fraud)

I would like to see food and housing handled at a local level versus federal.

Except local governments dont' usually have the money to do it and Church giving is spoty at best. So for the real people that need help, disabled, especially our disabled Vets with real mental problems and no way to make a living...how do we help them?

I know who feeds and clothes the vets that are living down by the river this winter under tarps.
A Marine that left before he graduated from High School to enlist and serve in Vietnam, that is who.
has been helping them.
He was awarded his high school diploma two years ago by his alma mater. I attended the ceremony and it was very moving when he walked onto the stage in his dress uniform at his age, to receive his diploma. He received a standing ovation. I have donated to his charity since that.

a reply to: xuenchen

Affordable health care was her platform before she lost the nomination in 2008 anyway so that makes sense actually. I guess you'll have to start calling it the affordable care act instead of Obama care then.

a reply to: butcherguy

Why are you even looking to see how others pay for food? What is that all l about?
Gosh in an effort to not be intrusive or nosey I try to not even look at what people are buying and you're looking to see who has a platinum card and who's on EBT. Do you stare at the lady who has depends in her cart or see that Mr Smith buys polygrip (guess they're not his teeth) too. Sorry I know this is a rant. For some reason I was feeling for the single mother in line in front of you who was embarrassed that you saw that.

a reply to: butcherguy

Yes let's bring back the company store.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

You keep quoting that, and still have no idea of what it MEANS.

The DEBT of the STATE.

Not ours.