To stay or not to stay? That is the billion euro question. Leave the EU or stay

So, the UK will be going to the polls shortly to vote whether we stay in the EU or leave it.
There is going to be all sorts of BS flying around for both sides of the argument. That is where I am completely stuck!
Can any of you political minded people give me a "pro's and con's" version and a reason you think either way.
I am currently undecided yet, as I have no facts what-so-ever on the benefits of either.
I'm looking forward to hearing both sides of the argument.

a reply to: chelsealad

Let merkel tell you what to do, or make up your own minds?

Pretty much all there is to it.

I feel like if British will get to leave for freedom then others will surely follow, perhaps right after British most of the north eu countries will follow and then it will be like domino effect, perhaps some wars will spark between some countries etc. Could be that they have all this in the known and wont let it happen no matter what British ppl will vote for. If i recall correct some countries didnt even want to join up in the first place but they were kinda brought in by their leaders and some of those promises they made while election was hold, was ridiculous, ppl at least now can see how much of a joke they really were, then there is the books of rules that nobody understand, even those leaders whom sign em up, then there is presidency that ppl just learned much later that they have eu president, supposedly democratic union that just were given a president that nobody even knows about.. Imho EU was created towards the warfare we are going through right now and will go into the future, less thinking more forcing things through etc.

a reply to: Sargeras

She is more trouble than she is worth. Certainly a lot to answer for, but that's a different thread completely.

a reply to: chelsealad

I think that the UK will come out of the EU,

people are fed up with the influx of Europeans taking jobs, and crushing the NHS, Schools, Prisons and police resources,

that mixed with the issues in the middle east........

UK has one luxury most countries don't, it's an island, and can shut all ports, and stop the influx, (of course they wont do that)

interesting to see how much our crazy media will present.

Maybe we could ask the Mods if we could have a POLL here on ATS??

a reply to: romilo

I recall some of the "outlandish" promises that we made to countries in order to get them to join the EU, particularly Portugal and Spain etc and those with very weak economies. The result was an increase in the cost of living, and that was it.
That is why I am extremely interested in what would come of the UK if we left or could negotiate a new deal.

a reply to: Phatdamage

A poll would be a great idea!

I agree with most of what you said.
I, rightly or wrongly, do want all borders shut to immigration. However, I don't really want this thread to drift into an immigration debate.

originally posted by: chelsealad
So, the UK will be going to the polls shortly to vote whether we stay in the EU or leave it.
There is going to be all sorts of BS flying around for both sides of the argument. That is where I am completely stuck!
Can any of you political minded people give me a "pro's and con's" version and a reason you think either way.
I am currently undecided yet, as I have no facts what-so-ever on the benefits of either.
I'm looking forward to hearing both sides of the argument.

You won't get to hear any, they are too busy telling us why voting for the other side would be The worse case scenario. The Tories have had two successful election campaigns using the same tactics. Nobody has stopped to ask what the benefits of voting for their party would provide the individual.

It has been all about what they are taking away from your lessors, but never about what they are going to give you.

Let's be rid of the unelected ones obeying their NWO masters. Then consider getting rid of all the current M.P's, through the election process.

Let's have a Government run by the people, for the people.

Unemployment has never been higher since we joined, an influx of labour working cheap and subsidised by benefits leaving lots of our tradies out of work. What's that EU allows all the Uk tradies to ply their trade in countries where there is no decent education, the wages are lower, standard of living is lower, healthcare is lower...that's why it's a one way street into UK?

Here is another kicker, according to the In crowd, we will be safer in the EU? What, the same EU that, thanks to its schenden and Merkel millions of foreigners have entered, economic migrants from Mid East and North Africa and untold number of unknown fighting age men with no background and potential sinister motives? That France allow to camp in calaise trying to get into our country? Well with EU friends like that I feel safer out.

What next Cameron? Oh yes, scare mongering, leaving the EU is a jump into the unknown. Is it Cameron, and why is that a bad thing? I wouldn't stay with a gold digging partner who brought me little happiness and started bullying me into doing things that were not best for me, no I would leave and it's not really a leap into the unknown, we were single for a number of years before the political xperiment that is the EU.

And a reformed EU, don't believe your own hype Cameron, with a negotiation style like yours and the pitiful and dubious reforms you negotiated I wouldn't be celebrating, you achieved nothing from your negotiations, which just goes to show what a controlling bully the EU is.

I'm out, let's face it, it's been a long 40 years downhill for the UK, we are the cash cow for that waste of money, let's build Britain great again. OUT!

a reply to: chelsealad

I just don't understand the desperation of it. We were kind of conned in the seventies about it being just a free market and people don't like being lied to. Why do they care? If its such a brilliant idea, why do they need us? They should be laughing it up in their super fantastic utopian dreamland. They shouldn't care what we do.

This EU superstate can't be that super if they're getting all wound up about a tiny little island miles away. What do we have that they need so badly?

Answer me that and I'll perhaps think differently but it seems just wrong how no one is telling us the truth but expect us to make an informed choice?

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

This is my issue. I can't trust any main stream media outlet to give an honest unbiased account of what the true benefits are for either argument. All I am seeing at the moment is the Boris Vs Cameron fight, the let's get rid of our nuclear arms, and all the other BS that's floating around the news. I wonder if Trump wins in the USA that could spur a shift in mind set across Europe..... Just a thought

a reply to: chelsealad

I also agree, but you cant pass up the Immigration issue, as this is a big part of the reason, its no secret that France are allowing people through there borders to get to the UK,

I have mailed Skeptic and linked to this thread requesting a UK POLL,

There is a Joke going around at the minute...

All these Romanian, Albanian and Lithuanian people coming over here taking our Polish jobs

Kinda says it all,

its a Joke, the UK people are getting fed up

a reply to: chelsealad

In the 1970s they said it was for free movements of good and to cut red tape and thats the reason for joining as it was for trade.
Last year David Cameron said that they intend to cut red tape in the European Union as the majority of the E. U budget is taken up by red tape.

A few years ago the E.U decided that if you did not go to university you could not get a top job in the E.U making it for elites only.

Regardless of having MEP s all new laws and decisions are taken by an unelected 3 man dictatorship called the European Commission.

Britain has Common Law Europe has Napoleonic Code which means you are guilty till proven innocent where under common law your are innocent till proven guilty.

The Referendum is a con' if 100% of British people vote to leave then if only one country says no then Britain can't leave' in November 2014 the British Government gave a way our right to determine our own future (do a search Nov 2014 what Britain signed in the E.U)

They say jobs will be lost if we leave the E.U. every year the UK has been in the E.U unemployment total has risen.

Britain will be poorer if we leave' false Britain is an Island surrounded with fish that brits can't take' britain is the only oil producing nation in the E.U.


The E. U is about control total control of everything you do. the migrant crisis was made by the E.U to have 10 people chasing the same job and allow business to pay poor wages.

Since that E.U Nov 2014 document was signed what can only be discribed as treason the UK can never leave this Union and the only way to do it I'm afraid is declare war on Europe.

But after all that your vote is a waste of time as Peter Lilley owns the company that handles the postal votes so its a forgone conclusion that Britain will vote to stay in even though 85% may vote to leave.

This is the new slavery run by business for business' new laws to control your life and low wages with a large workforce brought in by Governments undercutting you.

There is nothing you can do as most people are asleep to it but I don't really believe that' I think people have lost their backbone and just accept it.

I actually believe every thing we are told is false and lies' I used to think we are ruled by idiots but now I know they are the great deceivers the bible talks about.

Just read what they came up with the idea to sanction pensioners pension if they dont do any work similar to what they did to the disabled' they are wanting to evict pensioners from hospital if their family can't afford a care home.

Britain is led by members of the Bullington club' this is a club where upper class must burn a £50 note in front of a beggar to get in something like skull and bones.

People vote for them so until people wake up it will remain' you have to ask yourself why would anyone who is poor vote for eleteists and expect anything else.

Well I will leave the last word to George Orwell' George said that after the war with Germany he could not believe that the working class just fell back into line and let the status quo return. He came to the conclusion that after all the years fighting the system that the workking class actually enjoyed it and felt comfort in being subservant , and if you remember his take on the future of jackboot in your face forever then the jack boot is here and that is the E.U

Why have I not put links, because if you need to ask for advice on whether to stay or leave then you have not done any research and I'm not doing it for you

a reply to: Tulpa

This is how I'm feeling! How can we make an informed decision on no facts! This baffles me.

I try my best to understand both sides of an issue, and most times I do. From across the pond, it seems those who want to stay in are either fearful of some kind of economic backlash or have some kind of relationship to non-uk interests. I say, to both of those people, pull your panties out of your wad and grow a pair you cowards or get out.

originally posted by: pavmas
a reply to: chelsealad


Why have I not put links, because if you need to ask for advice on whether to stay or leave then you have not done any research and I'm not doing it for you

It's not about not wanting to research. To me it's trying to fathom the fact from the spin.
By the tone of your post I do think you have an anti-establishment attitude anyway, which is good, as I do wish to hear both sides to the argument.
I am leaning towards wanting to leave the EU, as I do believe that they control more aspects of our lives than we realise, but those thoughts are only based on reading what I find interesting and I am not fully informed on the benefits of remaining in the EU.

a reply to: chelsealad

In the 70s I earned more than my son earns now' Employees are paying wages you cant live on because they have as many as they want pouring through our borders. people have a lower standard of living than they did in 1900s. New rules being brought in by E.U is that job centres must advertise all jobs in every E. U. country, in the UK we have 65 million now you have to compete with 365 million people. the E. U is slavery and why anyone would vote for that is beyond me.

I actually think its to late now I think Britain is gone and can only get worse.

I wrote 10 years ago that I think the E.U intend to make Britain a Muslim homeland in Europe' they will let them flood in and all the Muslims around Europe will head for the UK and Uk people will have no choice but to move to mainland Europe. people called me nuts then' they are not calling me nuts now, Im going to try and find these old posts that were on other sites.

a reply to: KanerD

This is what is covertly been told to us, that if we leave the EU then Britain's economy will revert back to the stone age. I can say with some certainty that the farmers and live stock owners of Britain will be told that they will lose thousands in subsidiary payments if we leave the EU.

a reply to: chelsealad

Britain could be so good without Europe, bent tasty Jamacian bananas again, I was in France at the time of the falklands war when the French were supplying missiles to the Argies and they were our friends. I would trust a starving pit bull before I would trust a Frenchman, they had me fighting them in Lourdes when I should have been praying. and they say safer in Europe' the only war the french have won was the revolution and that's only because they were fighting amongst themselves.

I trust no one in Europe we have beat them all to many times and now they want us to trust the twisted btards, not me.

Leave and be done with it, don't let them bring you down with em.