Give me one damn reason the rich should be supported in their positions.

I'm not really understanding this position on ATS - We have talks of socialism, capitalism. We talk about welfare, increasing government, decreasing government... Yet, for some reason, there's a group of people who seem to lack any reasoning at all, and seem to worship the rich and elite as they sit in their thrones.

The rich and elite....

Are responsible for wars.
Have bought and funded our government.
Have gradually and continually chipped away at our quality of life - Yes, luxuries included - But why is the decline of these supported?
Poison us with unsafe foods, chemicals, additives, etc - They own the FDA, USDA, and those that have any oversight over them..
Have somehow convinced us that they are the supply, the demand, the producers, the buyers and the sellers of everything when in fact the working class are.
Have convinced us we need to worship the "job creators" - Because no one would need food or have a job in agriculture or other retail if walmart didn't exist, right?

I'm NOT saying I am against capitalism and a free market. I am also not saying this applies to all "rich" people - I'm not talking your millionaire Joe Neighbor that owns a few franchises. I'm talking billionaires, trillionaires. People that essentially own countries and governments, bankers and international coporations...

I'm definitely for capitalism and a free and fair market. For supply and demand economics to work as they do naturally...

But we sure as F... don't live that life now.

So my question is - Why do you support these entities and corporations?

Why are we told we don't need to be able to afford this type of life, or that - That even putting food on the table is at times asking for too much. Because for some reason inequality is natural, and good, and amazing..

Nothing about dynastic bloodlines, bankers, corporations and governments making billions off of wars, poverty, etc is natural.

Please show me how I'm wrong. I'm up for being proven wrong.

-Deadlyhope

a reply to: deadlyhope

You type wise words but I don't know any members on here who support the rich, elite or their corporations. Quite the opposite.

It's hard at this point in time (US elections, EU Brexit) to know why people say what they do but rest assured we would all like to take down the elite.

EDIT And the lucky to have food on the table thing is just used in debates to make things seem relative or put things into perspective vs real problems.

a reply to: deadlyhope

So my question is - Why do you support these entities and corporations?

Lack of choice.... Multinationalism is robbing us of choice and linning their pockets , the political elite who they control are robbing us of choice and lining their pockets , the sad fact is they have us by the short and curlies and who's to blame for all this ? .... WE ARE !

We / the populations of our countries let them get away with it so why wouldn't they do it ?

Because without the 1% you can say goodbye to all of your modern technology and conveniences, advanced by the wars financed by the banks that are owned by them. Most people (I think) innately know that a reset or restructuring of our economic system will cause mass disruption of our way of life.

Most people can't deal with that. They're comfortable in their slavery and will thus do anything to maintain it.

You have to be willing to throw it all away and start over from scratch. With nothing.

We'd be lucky to get a significant portion of them to turn off the TV.

Its not soo cut and dry

So lets say you have a idea, its brilliant, you will make a widget with a thing on top. This is gonna revolutionize widgetry everywhere, and the thing market..forget it, next level stuff.

So you sell it for a fair price, get some manufacturing, the demand is insane, you expand, and next thing you know, you got billions of $. cost you sleepless nights, but you secured your life, your kids, grandkids, and even their kids all having a edge..well done.

Why then would there be hate? there is a element of chance, sure, but most of that was hard work and innovation..why would you be punished for coming up with the idea of the widget and making a profit per order?

I understand the problem, consolidation of money..widget guy muscles in and takes over the whatchamacalit industry, then with that he starts consuming all the other industries, the stuff market, the brik-a-brak manufacturing, etc..

but what can be done? you gonna put a limit on success? That would have some heavy consequences...finally, who defines rich? for a poor person, someone with half a mil $ in the bank is crazy rich, whereas someone with 20m thinks they are barely getting by

nothing can be done

What is your perception of rich?
What dollar amount is enough for one man?
At what point is it fair for you to step in and say you have made too much money, you are too successful, and your offspring only deserve your idea of comfort?

Now, I'm with you on the policy makers and legalized insider traders profiting.

People with lots of money are strange beings, i've seen this so many times in my life even among friends.
I've got friends with very little money who would give away there clothes to strangers and others who couldn't spare a dime for a beggar on the street.
I'm 100% sure money is evil.

Money makes life easier they say, which life?
I get so angry seeing money spilled away at stupid unnecessary projects.
How can you enjoy your rich life while 1/4 of the world population live in poverty and over 20.000 children die each day due to poverty?
Politics should be an example to humanity, politics is just a big joke, a game. Why do we let people, who make war, tell us what to do?

Don't support the rich corporations, buy local, grow your own food, live simple and don't let propaganda brainwash you.
It's not always easy but it can be done.

a reply to: NthOther

Where is the proof that inventions come from the rich? Yes, they invest, but the most significant things including that TV you're talking about are just made by inventors that aren't in it for the money. Inventors will always exist. Public funding and kick starters and such could easily surpass what corporations develop in my opinion.. Intuition and creativity are lacking these days. Our technology would be far more advanced if it was a society where these traits, and ideas and invention were encouraged.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Your example isn't the type of person I'm talking about. A genius at business and creativity and invention should be rewarded but some times the reality is more like...

A rich man buys out all other widget companies, files patent lawsuits that should never be taken to court, hires out near slave labor in China to develop widgets and makes billions. He then hires corporate lobbyists and gets a senator in his pocket to ensure no other widget creator could compete, because they pay their taxes, and he finds ways to get subsidized.

I've advocated for leaving honest rich men alone, and taking every penny of bad rich men... But there's no way to deem a person, government, or entity to be worthy of judging each individual business, corporation, bank etc, and corruption, greed, power would now be in the hands of those judges rather than the rich they said they were seeking out for the good of the people....

a reply to: Mandroid7

No dollar amount is "enough"

I'm not talking about wage caps, or spreading wealth.

I'm saying a natural, free market would likely contain many, many millionaires and less billionaires, and less poverty or low income families.

The average person is not educated to know that they have an important role in the economy. An important enough role to afford food and shelter at the prices they cost in the area they live, while working full time.

If every man woman and child were taught that anything less than a living wage would not be acceptable... The market, the economy, businesses would either adapt to the demand, or go out of business.

a reply to: and14263

Oh yeah, I live in a small town. I support the local places for the most part.

Unfortunately, the mentality to support local and small businesses would have to be adopted by a huge amount of people to actually hurt larger corporations.

Larger corporations are not worried about this because they offer low enough prices to be afforded by workers who get paid little.. Sometimes it doesn't come down to will, or desire... Its necessity.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: SaturnFX

Your example isn't the type of person I'm talking about. A genius at business and creativity and invention should be rewarded but some times the reality is more like...

A rich man buys out all other widget companies, files patent lawsuits that should never be taken to court, hires out near slave labor in China to develop widgets and makes billions. He then hires corporate lobbyists and gets a senator in his pocket to ensure no other widget creator could compete, because they pay their taxes, and he finds ways to get subsidized.

I've advocated for leaving honest rich men alone, and taking every penny of bad rich men... But there's no way to deem a person, government, or entity to be worthy of judging each individual business, corporation, bank etc, and corruption, greed, power would now be in the hands of those judges rather than the rich they said they were seeking out for the good of the people....

Thing is, in that example you gave, its simply a person working the system in a legal way...the complaint then isn't the smart person using the law, its the laws themselves that need looking at.
And good luck there..its written in such a way that if you try to stop the powerful from abusing the system, the small person also gets hammered..perhaps even harder.
Regulations is a perfect example actually that I have come to see an issue with..huge corporate interests want tons of regulations, as they can afford it, but it strangles out any smaller mom and pop..so what to do..what to do.....

originally posted by: deadlyhope

Where is the proof that inventions come from the rich? Yes, they invest, but the most significant things including that TV you're talking about are just made by inventors that aren't in it for the money. Inventors will always exist. Public funding and kick starters and such could easily surpass what corporations develop in my opinion.. Intuition and creativity are lacking these days. Our technology would be far more advanced if it was a society where these traits, and ideas and invention were encouraged.

Capital. Is required for production. It doesn't matter who invents what, it's never going into production (to speak nothing of marketing and distribution) without capital.

Public funding, you say? Well, it's worked so well everywhere else we've tried it, so why not?

originally posted by: deadlyhope

Please show me how I'm wrong. I'm up for being proven wrong.

OK. YOU are rich. YOU are part of the 1%. Look at you. You've got a computer and Internet access. You have food to eat, shelter, and enough leisure time to spend running off at the mouth. Compare your rich life of leisure to the rest of the world. You've got more "stuff" and more resources than 99% of everyone else. On a per capita basis you consume more resources, produce more carbon, and create more waste than the rest of the world. You've been given everything and you didn't even have to earn it.

It's not those "other people" who are the problem.

It's you.

a reply to: schuyler

This is comparison. How am I living compared to my neighbor - What work am I doing, what work is my neighbor doing? What is the actual worth in this economy of our work, is the pay realistic or is there some type of cheating the system going on? ( Government favoring, tax evasion, unethical practices, slave labor across seas, etc. )

Other people, in other parts of the world... Are being oppressed by tyrannical governments, and have much worse lives.. Because of money.

Your " You have more than everyone else " supports my argument, it doesn't go against it. Corporations and oppressive governments are screwing everyone.

Yes, Americans do benefit the most off this collective "screwing of the average"

I'm asking - Why do we allow this? Give me one reason we should be supporting them. Republicans seem to LOVE these billionaires and bankers and tell me to lay off the topic all the time. Saying they need to be able to do what they do so we, the people, can live a great life and have a great job.

I NEVER talk about millionaires, small business owners and such being bad.

a reply to: NthOther

Wrong thread.

a reply to: SaturnFX

What to do, indeed.

I'm just tired of people propping these corporations up. Like I could not breathe this air if international bankers and corporations didn't exist.

Give me one good reason why you should be supported in yours ...

a reply to: deadlyhope

So my question is - Why do you support these entities and corporations?

No one supports greed, the ultra-rich, or corporations anything like that. That would misrepresent the argument. They are supporting the principle of freedom. You either support freedom, or you support unfreedom.

Take your pick.

a reply to: ketsuko

Never said I should be.

However, if I lacked support by the majority of Americans... Being a manager at a locally owned operation, the people would not be using their time wisely, nothing could be gained, nor loss by virtually anyone.