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originally posted by: Nochzwei
Pray to be Saved thru His Grace and you will be enlightened
a reply to: Belcastro
originally posted by: auraofblack
a reply to: childofapoet
I am grateful. I'm a lucky guy, but if God is sentient, I need to hear it from him direct why he needs to know that...... If it's explained and it's reasonable, I can do it.
You see, I don't really see our creator as something we have conscious relalationship with. I also think it's slightly silly to humanise and try to apply human behavioural responses to God.
If He/She is sentient it's okay, I'm Roman Catholic, and I I'll be looking to get some of that forgiveness.....
originally posted by: Nochzwei
No part of you is eternal unless you are Saved by the mighty Grace of Jesus
a reply to: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum
You seem of an opinion that experiences in meditation and dream mind states are false and everything is only blind belief?
Well at least this is normal for a lot of people on ATS to think, I am sorry if I am wrong to say that about you.
BOTH can be a great tool for learning about the Self. If you would experience other mind states in meditation you would probably understand and realize that. Science relies only on our waking state, ignoring the rest.
Only our EGO has expectations and attachments and this is the part we want to get rid of in this context.
Everything is a process and can be experienced, don't just believe but try it for yourself!
imho.
Haha, really? I was saying it tounge in cheek. It's a big thing for a RCatholic to seek God's forgiveness for just being born.... Sin after sin, we are an evil bunch it would seem.
originally posted by: childofapoet
originally posted by: auraofblack
a reply to: childofapoet
I am grateful. I'm a lucky guy, but if God is sentient, I need to hear it from him direct why he needs to know that...... If it's explained and it's reasonable, I can do it.
You see, I don't really see our creator as something we have conscious relalationship with. I also think it's slightly silly to humanise and try to apply human behavioural responses to God.
If He/She is sentient it's okay, I'm Roman Catholic, and I I'll be looking to get some of that forgiveness.....
Forgiveness for what? What did you do? Why do you have to confess as a Roman catholic? Do you know the Pope. The Vatican's official twitter account. Is offering time off purgatory if you follow. Don't forgive me but I LOL a lot.
www.theguardian.com... nces-pope-francis-tweets
Cogito, Ergo Sum: At some point every "enlightened one" is a believer. In every system, no matter how much it is supposedly based on experience, there will be a point at which a "leap of faith" is required to go further....at which point "abandon all hope, ye who enter here", and delusion follows.
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum
originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum
Cogito, Ergo Sum: At some point every "enlightened one" is a believer. In every system, no matter how much it is supposedly based on experience, there will be a point at which a "leap of faith" is required to go further....at which point "abandon all hope, ye who enter here", and delusion follows.
Not so. To be enlightened or one in awareness (gnosis) does not mean one has identify with any belief system at all. What is experience? There is no reason for a 'leap of faith to occur'; as you say if so: delusion follows because belief systems are inherently flawed as were created *by others* to manipulate you.
Cogito, Ergo Sum: At some point every "enlightened one" is a believer. In every system, no matter how much it is supposedly based on experience, there will be a point at which a "leap of faith" is required to go further....at which point "abandon all hope, ye who enter here", and delusion follows.
vhb: Not so. To be enlightened or one in awareness (gnosis) does not mean one has identify with any belief system at all. What is experience? There is no reason for a 'leap of faith to occur'; as you say if so: delusion follows because belief systems are inherently flawed as were created *by others* to manipulate you.
Cognito, Ergo Sum: Guess that depends on your definition of "spiritual enlightenment". Which, from what I see, doesn't seem to require much apart from being being able to claim such or perhaps even have a firm yet delusional belief.
CES: Self praise is no recommendation and all idols have feet of clay. Though some are without belief as you say, this is because they don't believe it themselves.
CES: If someone wishes you to believe they are some great "grand poobah/guru" type, it's worth being skeptical of such claims.
originally posted by: childofapoet
I believe if you was to read all the ancient scriptures. You would quickly realise where the Bible got it all from.
Before you were born, you were one with the void.
After you die, You are one with the void again.
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum
originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum
Cogito, Ergo Sum: At some point every "enlightened one" is a believer. In every system, no matter how much it is supposedly based on experience, there will be a point at which a "leap of faith" is required to go further....at which point "abandon all hope, ye who enter here", and delusion follows.
vhb: Not so. To be enlightened or one in awareness (gnosis) does not mean one has identify with any belief system at all. What is experience? There is no reason for a 'leap of faith to occur'; as you say if so: delusion follows because belief systems are inherently flawed as were created *by others* to manipulate you.
Cognito, Ergo Sum: Guess that depends on your definition of "spiritual enlightenment". Which, from what I see, doesn't seem to require much apart from being being able to claim such or perhaps even have a firm yet delusional belief.
Not mine, yours obviously has degrees of enlightenment as attached aphorisms (would like to see those).
CES: Self praise is no recommendation and all idols have feet of clay. Though some are without belief as you say, this is because they don't believe it themselves.
Self praise as in Demi-Gods manipulating the human? Those without belief are the Gnostics (those in knowledge pure) not needing a structure/belief system someone else matrix'ed for them.
CES: If someone wishes you to believe they are some great "grand poobah/guru" type, it's worth being skeptical of such claims.
It is your choice as can become one as well; if courageous enough (not easy).
originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum
yes. I agree with you on that.
our real Self is always as is. It is perfect already and never was anything else.
So who get Self realization?
what is the soul?
what is the ego?
what is body and mind in relation with it?
Interesting questions. They are more meant as a rhetorical kind...But they are questions which individual should have real experience (soul, Self, ...) and not just imagined.
That is why searching with words can get you only so far...experiences are most important, and experience can be
achieved in pure silent meditation.
I am surprised about how much you understand about all this already. It seems you were or are a bit spiritual or maybe agnostic? At the beginning of this thread I thought of you more as a scientist kind of guy : )
originally posted by: Belcastro
"In the beginning there was nothing, somehow out of this nothing, came everything.
Matter, mind, consciousness emerged."