Socialism is a stepping stone towards Communism

I'm sure Colonel Sanders means well. He believes that socialism is the key to solving all of America's problems. That if it can be done right, we can build a Utopia. This is not a new idea. Marxist forms of government have, since the beginning, been sold as Heaven on Earth, a Worker's Paradise, a Utopia. But that can only be sustained for a short time; it's not indefinite.

It fails because of the way socialism works. The government runs everything, for the good of the people. For equality. Sounds good on the surface, but it's inherently flawed because it assumes the Gov will use it's total control for the good of the people. We at ATS should know better than most that it don't work that way. Governments don't give frak about us. We all know that Govs only care about their own power and interests. We are all aware about Gov corruption.

I am from a communist country in Central America called Nicaragua. In the forties, it had great infrastructure, a good economy, it's people were well educated; it was a strong republic. Then the communists came, and started a 'socialist revolution' and ruined the country. USSR and Cuba installed their professors in our colleges and taught the youth that Socialism is a worker's paradise that will bring equality and paradise. That they'll never want for anything, because the state will provide all their needs. The Marxists also operated in the media, spreading their socialist lies about utopia, and smearing the name of our democratically elected President Somoza, who is remembered to this day on Wikipedia as a dictator. Under Somoza, the country was a true republic where votes and laws mattered and it had the fastest growing economy and infrastructure in Central America. Socialist Nicaragua is now the second poorest country in Latin America. There is sparse electricity and running water once a week if you're lucky. The people there have no voice, no money, and no hope for change. Their 'President' has been in power since the takeover in the fifties, runs the party, and did not deliver Utopia, but instead poverty for all but the elite.

TL;DR
My message to y'all is this: Learn from the past. You can vote your freedoms away, but you can never vote them back. Do not fall for Utopian lies. Bernie is not a liar, but he is wrong. Learn this from history: Its is always the educated and the intellectuals that push hardest for socialism. They believe in a Workers Paradise. They are also among the first to be executed once it inevitably turns sour. Karl Marx (or Lenin?) has said that the purpose of socialism is to pave the road towards communism. As for myself, I refuse to believe that Marx was more intelligent than the Founding Fathers or ancient Greeks.
Read about the guy sometime. He was funded by capitalists. Capitalists today support the switch to socialism. Doesn't it bother you that this ideology supposedly for the poor is vastly supported by the elite bourgeois it allegedly opposes?

The Gov is corrupt, and you people think the solution is to switch to socialism so they can run everything? What sense does that make?
And people say; "We just want a little socialism, not all of it." I say to you; It's a slippery slope, and liberty must be guarded jealously. Communism does not come at once, but incrementally over time.

Socialism: Everything is run by the State.
Communism: Everything is owned by the State.

(Will a mod please move this to the proper section. I guess I hit the New Thread button in the wrong place.)

There is not a single political or economical '-ism' that will help the human race. Only technology & the eradication of excessive consumerism/materialism can save us now.

We need egalitarianism, nothing else.

Well, luckily nobody is suggesting a purely socialist society.

parts of socialism is in all forms of working governments...in america, its a socio-capitalist society..with favoring mostly on capitalism over socialist policys, but still got plenty of socialist stuff like SS, minimum wage, medicaid, food stamps, etc etc etc.

what Sanders is discussing is moving the watermark to ensure a decent standard of living for all as a base. not eliminating capitalism, just making sure the net isn't too far down so people have an easier time climbing back up.

Now, you can debate (and should) about what is the right mix between socialism (helping those less fortunate and arguably sure..lazy) and capitalism (the best driving force for innovation and uplifting an entire society from poverty)

Well let's look at the famous Karl Marx 10 Planks.

See what still "needs work" in the U.S.

Karl Marx's "10 Planks" to seize power and destroy freedom:

1) Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.

2) A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.

3) Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.

4) Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.

5) Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.

6) Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.

7) Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.

8) Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.

9) Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.

10) Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.

applied in U.S. ?

how mush more to go?

a reply to: MayanBoricua

Marx was pretty smart. The forefathers basically copied a few enlightenment era philosophers mainly Locke's Two Treaties of Government but were also pretty smart.

I think Marx was correct in assuming capitilism would eventually consolidate wealth to a fractional percentage. Communism was also supposed to come out of advanced capitalists nations not peasant states like Russia or China. I have no love for communism though. The whole needing a prolitariot dictatorship during the transition part is quite scary.

On the other hand it's pretty much enivetable that capitalism creates an oligarchy as we see now in the US and ironically Russia. Sooner or later that fractional wealth controls the public policy and therefore represses freedom resulting in a kind of system not far off from socialism except it's a cooperate socialism.

The Greeks,...
well if you read the Republic Plato didn't very much believe in democracy for all but rather only the elite. I think our forefathers did a better job.

All in all it seems revolutions whether Glorious or bloody are needed to keep things in check.

Yeah everyone knows that socialism is a gateway political ideology.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Socialism is like marijuana. Only people who haven't had enough of it think they don't like it.

a reply to: SaturnFX

You missed his point then. He said this happens incrementally, not all at once, but he also said this is a lie and slippery slope. There is no going back once you start down the path.

Way to not read what was written.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Socialism is like marijuana. Only people who haven't had enough of it think they don't like it.

I am so glad you compare it to a drug. Now I know I don't want any part of it.

Because basically, the thing you just is that the only way I will ever like socialism is if I take myself out of my own right and sensible mind into a state where I am not thinking correctly and incapable of doing so.

It also explains why you can never have a sensible and rational conversation with anyone who thinks socialism is awesome.

a reply to: ketsuko

The problem is the same goes for an oligarchy which we are much closer to than socialism. They both destroy personal individual liberty. This is why our forefathers talk about the need for bloodshed to restore democracy.

a reply to: luthier

I won't disagree with that either, but socialism is not the answer.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Socialism is like marijuana. Only people who haven't had enough of it think they don't like it.

More like Hopium and Nannywanna

a reply to: ketsuko

It's not. The oligarchs want us all dependent. Ironic isn't it. Capitalism leads to wealth consolidation, efficiency that destroys jobs, and then the oligarchs push socialism as the solution.

Classical liberalism has been dying slowly since the progressives of old came to be.

a reply to: luthier

Oligarchs buy football clubs and make or break people's lives. It's the ones above that act as the strings, the media moguls, the Rockerfellers and the like.

Then you have the Elite, the Rotschilds and Royalty.

They sold us freedom, we got slavery.

It's a dog eat dog world, always has been, always will be.

a reply to: ketsuko

what if he said coffee? caffine is worse imo and is also a drug. not saying i like socialism but i do like weed lol.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

The elite are oligarchs. An oligarchy is when only the elite control public policy.
Oligarchy (from Greek ὀλιγαρχία (oligarkhía); from ὀλίγος (olígos), meaning "few", and ἄρχω (arkho), meaning "to rule or to command")[1][2][3] is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people. These people might be distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, education, corporate, religious or military control.

a reply to: luthier

No, power elite push capitalism to oligarchy and then to socialism because it protects their privileged position from competition. Capitalism injects that competition, so they seek to destroy it or rig the game in their favor.

It is the corruption in the system from interventionalism and the lust for power that degrades free capitalism, not capitalism itself.

In all things, it is mankind, humans who are to blame.

And for that reason, the main difference between capitalism and socialism is the degree of freedom they offer to individuals. The more freedom individuals have for themselves within the system, the less damage corruption can do to any of us. Socialism takes individual freedom away to a large degree and thus corruption in the system does damage to all. Capitalism (true capitalism, not oligarchy, or interventionalism) gives most of the power to the individual, so the damage of corruption is highly localized and confined to a few individuals rather than systemic.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SaturnFX

You missed his point then. He said this happens incrementally, not all at once, but he also said this is a lie and slippery slope. There is no going back once you start down the path.

Way to not read what was written.

but without stepping stones, then you have pure capitalism..which is a disaster to a dystopian magnitude.

that bridge was crossed the moment any government agency created any net whatsoever which started in the 1800s

Under socialist policys combining with capitalism, this nation has become a global economic powerhouse unlike anything ever produced in the history of mankind. before, when it was purely capitalism, we were bottom feeders. in areas on earth where socialist programs are minimal, you will also find desperate poverty.

the mix works, the stepping stones are needed, now the only question is..how much.


remember, a little bit of sunlight is the stepping stone to skin cancer.
:-

a reply to: MayanBoricua

Socialist Nicaragua is now the second poorest country in Latin America.

First you say it is communist then you say it is socialist make your mind up which is it because they are not the same.

My message to y'all is this: Learn from the past.

The people supporting Sanders have learned from the past too bad you haven't. They are looking at this nation and are able to see that the capitalist system we have in place is nothing but a failure.

Learn this from history: Its is always the educated and the intellectuals that push hardest for socialism.

That's because intelligent people knows socialism makes the most sense. As a society progresses fewer and fewer people are needed in the work force. Here in America a majority of the jobs could easily be done by robotics farming, fast food and manufacturing a majority of the jobs can be done away with because people aren't needed. So how are people supposed to survive if there are no jobs?

Capitalists today support the switch to socialism. Doesn't it bother you that this ideology supposedly for the poor is vastly supported by the elite bourgeois it allegedly opposes?

So the people who scream and cry the most about how bad socialism is are the ones supporting the switch? A little research into the GOP here in the states shows your statement is wrong.

The Gov is corrupt, and you people think the solution is to switch to socialism so they can run everything?

Yes it is corrupt but not as corrupt as the people who bought the politicians. If you knew anything about Bernie then you would know that he is constantly pointing out how money has corrupted the government and how we need to get money out of government.

Communism does not come at once, but incrementally over time.

There are many socialist nations in this world that is nowhere near becoming communist.

If you are going to attempt to write a hit piece on Bernie and socialism at least take the time to educate yourself on the two.

a reply to: DrakeINFERNO

Pointless trying to explain it in those terms. It's illegal, therefore it must be bad as far as some people care.

Alcohol is the most unforgiving of drugs, yet it's all natural, so it must be good. Oh yeah, it must be good.