Does the typical 'You create your own reality' belief system have an inherent contradiction?

a reply to: Profusion

If the statement "you can create the reality you want" is true then people would not be bound by any rules such as the second quote. Why? The reason is because if you're creating your own reality then you are also creating the rules in that reality (if any).

The above two quotes are like telling someone that they have unlimited power and then telling them about their limitations. That's what I feel is the contradiction here.

A little bit humorous answer.

You create new reality by not seeing this contradiction.

originally posted by: joelr


So you do think that science and spirituality will meet? Then you do think that thinks like LOA will have a scientific explanation?
Although LOA is not related to spirituality at all. It's just a metaphysics concept. One is not "spiritual" because they sit around trying to visualize things into reality.

I made it extremely clear that Science and Spirituality go in opposite drection but as if they were on the circumference of a circle. They will only meet when Science becomes Spiritual. This is very different to what you are saying. When Science embraces spiritual concepts, it effectively becomes Kaput.

It works in a scientific way or it's not real. All art can be explained by a science-like explanation. Painting uses ink and paper, materials made of molecules. Same with sculpture. Music uses sound waves, usually waves using certain ratios of vibration, 1/2 for the octave, 1/4 for the 5th and so on. And certain overtones give different instruments different tone.
The creativity is more complex and involves psychology and neuro science and if consciousness is connected to a higher self then this may be part of creativity also.

Art ,such as painting, is an act of Will. I saw a documentary about 20 years ago made by an artist which made me realise that I was not alone in using the technique. This artist showed how he was able to "will" the face of a lion to appear while , alternately and randomly , applying brush strokes of brown and yellow oil colours. All the time his will was at play , in this creative process. It was so exciting to see that slowly and surely , a perfect lion's face was appearing until it was almost like a photograph. The faster you paint the easier it gets as the will is a fast mover.

That cannot be dissected scientifically. It would be like trying to explain scientifically how to focus attention. The Will is the createive force. You seem to cloud this reality with terms such as : " ...if consciousness is connected to a higher self " or "psychology and neuro science".

Yes, there is consciousness and yes there is Higher Self but you are missing the point. You are looking at the middle pillar and ignoring the left and the right pillars. This is Qaballistic but Science has already declared that it will never venture in this unknown area(presimably for fear that it will lose its footing or have the carpet pull from under lts leg)


BTW, There is nothing wrong in my treating and criticising Science as if it were a person. Science , for me, represent the collective of stubborn , die hard skeptics and logically obsessed people. Wish we could go back to the days of the "Scholar"; those who studied things such as Alchemy, Algebra, Biology, Philosophy, etc at the same time because they are all connected.

originally posted by: joelr
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

joelr: Enlightenment is about realizations about the self, not about getting better SAT scores. Spirituality doesn't mean one should live in some magic fantasy land. LOA is not spirituality at all. Manifesting a dream house has nothing to do with exploring spirituality.

If you can dream IT more than likely IT will manifest as you were/are the causative as the dreamer/creator of your own individualized/personalized expression. This could be a fantasy land, spirituality, a house or business or finding true love.

originally posted by: joelr
Music uses sound waves, usually waves using certain ratios of vibration, 1/2 for the octave, 1/4 for the 5th and so on. And certain overtones give different instruments different tone.

And I forgot to mention this. I have studied music and play the flute amongst other instruments. I sometimes wonder what sounds I would have been be able to make was it not for the limitation imposed by the Octave (12-note system); a limit imposed by the scientific mind, no doubt.

a reply to: crowdedskies

what you would make? nothing. what you would resonate? everything. result? harmony or dischord... not choosing either? youve made intetion... if someone else comes along and picks up that intention or has with realizing it? what tune would you play then?

originally posted by: crowdedskies


I made it extremely clear that Science and Spirituality go in opposite drection but as if they were on the circumference of a circle. They will only meet when Science becomes Spiritual. This is very different to what you are saying. When Science embraces spiritual concepts, it effectively becomes Kaput.

First of all why are you comparing science to spirituality in any way? It seems completely random? Do you also compare plumbing to spirituality? What about dog racing, do they need to embrace spiritual concepts?

I'm talking about a scientific description to LOA which if true would eventually be explained in a step by step way.
If manifesting reality from consciousness is true then there is a process by which it happens. People might call it magic now but someday science would probably discover the physical process that takes place with whatever energies are used. If LOA is real it's not spirituality at all it's just a law of nature.

Art ,such as painting, is an act of Will. I saw a documentary about 20 years ago made by an artist which made me realise that I was not alone in using the technique. This artist showed how he was able to "will" the face of a lion to appear while , alternately and randomly , applying brush strokes of brown and yellow oil colours. All the time his will was at play , in this creative process. It was so exciting to see that slowly and surely , a perfect lion's face was appearing until it was almost like a photograph. The faster you paint the easier it gets as the will is a fast mover.

That cannot be dissected scientifically. It would be like trying to explain scientifically how to focus attention. The Will is the createive force. You seem to cloud this reality with terms such as : " ...if consciousness is connected to a higher self " or "psychology and neuro science".

Well simply put if consciousness is connected to a higher self beyond the physical realm then yes there are aspects to it that may never be described. If not then it all comes down to nuero-science and psychology.

Yes, there is consciousness and yes there is Higher Self but you are missing the point. You are looking at the middle pillar and ignoring the left and the right pillars. This is Qaballistic but Science has already declared that it will never venture in this unknown area(presimably for fear that it will lose its footing or have the carpet pull from under lts leg)

When exactly did "science" declare this?
I'm 100% sure that no one in science ever said "I'm scared to research concepts of a higher self because if it's true I'll lose my footing". That never happened.
That fear you speak of is probably your own fear that science can show many new age concepts to be bunk. Very telling.

BTW, There is nothing wrong in my treating and criticising Science as if it were a person. Science , for me, represent the collective of stubborn , die hard skeptics and logically obsessed people. Wish we could go back to the days of the "Scholar"; those who studied things such as Alchemy, Algebra, Biology, Philosophy, etc at the same time because they are all connected.

Nothing wrong!? As you use your science machine (computer) to communicate with others through the internet (more science)? Do you drive a car, watch t.v., get modern medical care including x-rays (thanks physics), have a cell phone (thanks Einstein for General relativity's satellite clock error correction).
If so you love science. You just hate skeptics.
Which is weird because why do you want everyone to think exactly like you? That's close minded.

originally posted by: crowdedskies


And I forgot to mention this. I have studied music and play the flute amongst other instruments. I sometimes wonder what sounds I would have been be able to make was it not for the limitation imposed by the Octave (12-note system); a limit imposed by the scientific mind, no doubt.

Nature gives us those consonant ratios in the overtone series of a vibrating string.
There are smaller steps than a half step in microtonal music. The most pleasing notes, octave, 5th, 4th and so on have the simplest ratios or fractions like 1/2 or 1/4.
Microtones get into more complex ratios and hence more dissonance. There are 5-10 notes in between each 1/2 step that a human ear can hear. Microtonal music sounds very dissonant and out-of-tune.

Just listen to sound all around you, traffic, machines, those are all combinations of microtones.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: joelr

If you want philosophy try Shopenhauer... however, be aware his bias towards women became a stumbling block on his path trying to follow another and another etc that words cannot give as they are... like saying: where am I going? And the person that knows just points... they cannot be with you during the entire journey... We begin alone and end alone and carry on in the middle. Yet we can sit alone but we have all directions loaded on top of our heads... as we sit and meditate, we start unloading our burdens. So the unload can be anywhere at any time... Like the feeling of needing to poop.

Much of what you speak of in dogmatic technical terms is a burden of concept lost in translation to many.

What is the difference in function between, a duvet, blanket, comforter, quilt, or bed spread? All have different names and forms... But serve the exact same function as a rectangular piece of matter to cover. The choice of what to cover means free will beyond function... find something that matter fills and there's a new function for it.

So rote concepts are essentially empty in name and form and the function of all matter equals whatever function one gives it suited to a need. This births all invention and concepts.

So there is no need to keep adding conceptual burden upon burden, allowing oneself to have no peace of mind or peace on earth attached to such things, in the name of personal greed, that breeds hate, then control trying to maintain something impermanent in nature... to do so is ignorance that leads to all delusion of a self that is ever lasting and important.

When one dies, all one does is drop the memory burden... but the matter of waves as one clings to the shell immediately seeks another form to persist. Some waves we put out come back to us life after life. Such as hate for people in wars in the present one did not fight... one hates it but they don't why they hate it and start looking for fingers to point where to go get revenge.

That just keeps it all spinning as a burden, that allows no one any rest. Like a resonance that cannot be harnessed without a form to perpetuate those intentions which are a form of a wave.

There is a light that we can turn on and off and change the colors of using mental energy. Yup a real thing.

So we have a body that carries out intentions and inattention consciously and subconsciously, grossly with form and subtly with thought form. Beyond those two actions there is action to the intention or not, there is speech to convey them our not. The non reaction to either is neutral to the entire process.

That neutral zone can move freely when not attached to any thing unless there is an intention to do either positive or negative with a resolve. Choosing a resolve positive accumulates positive energy, choosing resolve for negative accumulates negative energy. Choosing neither leaves one in a state of rectification of energy for balance, or resolution to solve a problem.

This occurs in 3 places at once, body... speech, and mind. Once fully realized? It becomes all pervading space or the 4th dimension beyond all the other 3.

That was just a pointing. Ah ha! Etc? Means it filled a gap in knowledge... more gaps a pieces to fill those gaps... But first look into the conceptual cup and see what out is filled with, respect the energy that put it there, then empty it... cup being the mind that holds all burdens present, past, limiting the future.

That's all until the cup itself is no longer needed. One can choose to remain and fill cups, help empty them, or wash them... or set the cup down never to return as anyone could conceive existing having so gone.

I don't understand why you believe there can be positive and negative energy in the sense you mean?
So if someone wants to do harm to another but believes it to be a positive thing then nature will see it as positive?

What changes take place in energy to distinguish it between this positive/negative?
Those concepts are also subjective, it makes no sense to try to define something as absolutely positive or negative in the way you mean.
A hunter considers it positive to kill a bear for food but the bear considers it murder.

I get it - people read all this material on LOA and energy and this and that, and they LOVE reciting it like they are the masters of the universe. But much of it doesn't make sense. It sounds nice but that doesn't make it real.

a reply to: Profusion

Population control is meant to elliminate contradicting realities.

There is a culling coming. Its not about race. Its about holding the power over peoples minds to will your reality into being.

I cant even describe this effectively. Its not meant to be "taught".

When you wield the power you understand. The art of overcoming others minds in mass is lost to leaders.

They think that by elliminating contradicting minds that they will dictate the human global mind.

They will fail, and people like the ancestors will rise again. Then we will forget this world and work to bury it deep in the dirt....and there will be no new brotherhood of the snake to bring back the old ways.

The secrets of the scepter are lost to those who were never king or never meant for kingship. Kingship is already decided. We have no king because there is no throne. Not yet.

Make the throne though, the king will find his way to it. The very nature of the king excludes him from plans and devious enterprises meant to create him or sway him.

He will come. So build his throne you dogs. Keep it warm for him too so his rage against the usurpers will be great and just.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight

Maybe because it worked for them as well...I really dont think you came here to entertain any "new ideas", I suspect no matter what we may say you'll knock it. I dont speak for Charles Haanel....take up the definitions with him

I know some of this LOA works, thats all I say for now

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize that one can only post here if they absolutely agree with everything you believe?

Who cares what I question, is this a big problem for you? If so ignore it.

The thing with LOA "working" is it's incredibly easy to apply confirmation bias. You visualize something and it shows up, you still don't know if it would have shown up anyways.

I also know this, I saw many many people on another forum practice LOA for years and they were certain they were going to be rich or in love or this or that. Once in a while things worked out to some degree but absolutely nothing that was out of the ordinary happenstance of everyday life. A lot of people were disillusioned after a while.
I know for sure it's not as reliable as many people think. After "The Secret" everyone was going to win the lottery and get rich. It's obviously not that easy.

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: joelr

If you want philosophy try Shopenhauer... however, be aware his bias towards women became a stumbling block on his path trying to follow another and another etc that words cannot give as they are... like saying: where am I going? And the person that knows just points... they cannot be with you during the entire journey... We begin alone and end alone and carry on in the middle. Yet we can sit alone but we have all directions loaded on top of our heads... as we sit and meditate, we start unloading our burdens. So the unload can be anywhere at any time... Like the feeling of needing to poop.

Much of what you speak of in dogmatic technical terms is a burden of concept lost in translation to many.

What is the difference in function between, a duvet, blanket, comforter, quilt, or bed spread? All have different names and forms... But serve the exact same function as a rectangular piece of matter to cover. The choice of what to cover means free will beyond function... find something that matter fills and there's a new function for it.

So rote concepts are essentially empty in name and form and the function of all matter equals whatever function one gives it suited to a need. This births all invention and concepts.

So there is no need to keep adding conceptual burden upon burden, allowing oneself to have no peace of mind or peace on earth attached to such things, in the name of personal greed, that breeds hate, then control trying to maintain something impermanent in nature... to do so is ignorance that leads to all delusion of a self that is ever lasting and important.

When one dies, all one does is drop the memory burden... but the matter of waves as one clings to the shell immediately seeks another form to persist. Some waves we put out come back to us life after life. Such as hate for people in wars in the present one did not fight... one hates it but they don't why they hate it and start looking for fingers to point where to go get revenge.

That just keeps it all spinning as a burden, that allows no one any rest. Like a resonance that cannot be harnessed without a form to perpetuate those intentions which are a form of a wave.

There is a light that we can turn on and off and change the colors of using mental energy. Yup a real thing.

So we have a body that carries out intentions and inattention consciously and subconsciously, grossly with form and subtly with thought form. Beyond those two actions there is action to the intention or not, there is speech to convey them our not. The non reaction to either is neutral to the entire process.

That neutral zone can move freely when not attached to any thing unless there is an intention to do either positive or negative with a resolve. Choosing a resolve positive accumulates positive energy, choosing resolve for negative accumulates negative energy. Choosing neither leaves one in a state of rectification of energy for balance, or resolution to solve a problem.

This occurs in 3 places at once, body... speech, and mind. Once fully realized? It becomes all pervading space or the 4th dimension beyond all the other 3.

That was just a pointing. Ah ha! Etc? Means it filled a gap in knowledge... more gaps a pieces to fill those gaps... But first look into the conceptual cup and see what out is filled with, respect the energy that put it there, then empty it... cup being the mind that holds all burdens present, past, limiting the future.

That's all until the cup itself is no longer needed. One can choose to remain and fill cups, help empty them, or wash them... or set the cup down never to return as anyone could conceive existing having so gone.

I don't understand why you believe there can be positive and negative energy in the sense you mean?
So if someone wants to do harm to another but believes it to be a positive thing then nature will see it as positive?

What changes take place in energy to distinguish it between this positive/negative?
Those concepts are also subjective, it makes no sense to try to define something as absolutely positive or negative in the way you mean.
A hunter considers it positive to kill a bear for food but the bear considers it murder.

I get it - people read all this material on LOA and energy and this and that, and they LOVE reciting it like they are the masters of the universe. But much of it doesn't make sense. It sounds nice but that doesn't make it real.

I do not believe anything conceptual. the truth is all concepts depend on something else. for life to exist it must have life. I have faith in humanity. otherwise Id have no empathy for it that was born out of compassion living and understanding the wisdom born from suffering.

thats all.

originally posted by: joelr


Nature gives us those consonant ratios in the overtone series of a vibrating string.
There are smaller steps than a half step in microtonal music. The most pleasing notes, octave, 5th, 4th and so on have the simplest ratios or fractions like 1/2 or 1/4.
Microtones get into more complex ratios and hence more dissonance. There are 5-10 notes in between each 1/2 step that a human ear can hear. Microtonal music sounds very dissonant and out-of-tune.

Just listen to sound all around you, traffic, machines, those are all combinations of microtones.

There you go again; analysing everything and trying to break everything down into scientific morsels.

Again Science trying to map out something without realising that it is really dissecting and creating limits and boundaries. That is what Science does all the time- limits and boundaries.

When I studied music theory , I went through the mathematical aspect of music. That does not mean that I accept those limits. Music could have evolve differently and with endless possibilities.

I feel that you are here only to promote science and objectivity.

When it comes to attracting things into your life, you will have all the proof and objective evidence that you need once you start practicing and achieving this feat yourself. What other proof do you need when you can see for yourself what you are manifesting and how you are getting better at it all the time.

On the other hand , if you have persuaded yourself already that is does not work, then you are at a great disadvantage. Looking for a scientific Modus Operandi will not help.

originally posted by: crowdedskies
.

There you go again; analysing everything and trying to break everything down into scientific morsels.

It's called knowledge. It's not for everyone.

Again Science trying to map out something without realising that it is really dissecting and creating limits and boundaries. That is what Science does all the time- limits and boundaries.

Science is just knowledge about the universe. With it we have been able to build flutes and computers, which you obviously use and enjoy. Throw away your computer and flute and any other tool that emerged from a science discovery and start from scratch with your LOA. Then your complaints will have merit. Now they are just silly.

Why do you want to be so judgmental and close minded about something so vague -simply a process for finding information about things?

When I studied music theory , I went through the mathematical aspect of music. That does not mean that I accept those limits. Music could have evolve differently and with endless possibilities.

Good for you.

I feel that you are here only to promote science and objectivity.

This is the place to discuss metaphysics, including the science of metaphysics or doubts about some of the concepts.

When it comes to attracting things into your life, you will have all the proof and objective evidence that you need once you start practicing and achieving this feat yourself. What other proof do you need when you can see for yourself what you are manifesting and how you are getting better at it all the time.

One problem is one can easily fall victim to confirmation bias.
You're trying to manifest love and then you meet someone and fall in love. For someone into LOA this would seem like amazing proof. But really people meet people and fall in love all the time, doesn't mean consciousness creates reality.
Also people have a tendency to overlook things that don't manifest and just focus on the hits. Same thing happens with psychics and cold readers.

It's also odd that you just assume I've never been into LOA.

On the other hand , if you have persuaded yourself already that is does not work, then you are at a great disadvantage. Looking for a scientific Modus Operandi will not help.

Actually that's not true at all. Studies have been done and can be done that could help illuminate if LOA is useful or just a false concept.
Lynn McTaggart touches on this subject in The Field.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness

I do not believe anything conceptual. the truth is all concepts depend on something else. for life to exist it must have life. I have faith in humanity. otherwise Id have no empathy for it that was born out of compassion living and understanding the wisdom born from suffering.

thats all.

Yeah but you said there is energy with negative-ness and energy with positive-ness. You said that. So I'm asking why you think that? What is it based on?

a reply to: joelr

confirmation bias.

Likewise confirmation bias will work on you in pushing further away the things you try to attract through LOA.

I also know this, I saw many many people on another forum practice LOA for years and they were certain they were going to be rich or in love or this or that. Once in a while things worked out to some degree but absolutely nothing that was out of the ordinary happenstance of everyday life. A lot of people were disillusioned after a while

well firstly if you try to win lotto when trying to attract "wealth" it ain't going to happen. But you will attract financial security and the tools and the circumstances to allow you to reach "your" expectations of financial freedom.

How could you see "many people in a forum as successful/unsuccessful", I thought it was just a computer monitor not exactly real evidence. What you're describing is what you criticize others of doing anecdotal "joelr evidence".

You either genuinely want to believe or are just here wasting everyone's time - which is it?

a reply to: crowdedskies

well spoken

That does not mean that I accept those limits. Music could have evolve differently and with endless possibilities

motherboard.vice.com...
"The 432Hz 'God' Note: Why Fringe Audiophiles Want to Topple Standard Tuning"

The 432Hz 'God' Note: Why Fringe Audiophiles Want to Topple Standard Tuning

Written by
CHRIS HAMPTON
May 12, 2014 // 02:10 PM EST
COPY THIS URL
The first time Ivan Yanakiev heard an instrument tuned to 432 Hertz, he says, it was like he’d heard God speak.

In the men’s dressing room at the Musical Drama Theatre Konstantin Kisimov in Veliko Tarnovo, Bulgaria, Yanakiev, a young, National Academy-schooled conductor, had his friend, Velimir, tune his cello down eight Hz from the standard A=440Hz. They were arranging an experiment.

Velimir, “a skilled cellist,” Yanakiev told me, started in on the prelude to Bach’s “Cello Suite No. 1 in G major.”

“So, la, si, so, si so, si, so/ So, la, si, so, si, so, si, so,” Yanakiev sings to illustrate. It’s one of the most often performed and well known pieces by Bach, but in that backroom rendition, transposed not even a half of a piano key lower, the song sounded fresh and exciting.

“It was a channelling of pure light and love that vibrated through the whole room,” he said. “It was new. It was brilliant.”
....

32 Hz is a vibration that has to be spread around the world.” For him, it’s not just pleasant to the ear; it’s a profound key capable of unlocking mysteries on the level of consciousness itself.

Theres quite a few web sites that promote 432Hz as opposed to A440 hz tuning. I've downloaded quite a few samples. Must remember to try tuning my keys to 432hz tomorrow, that should be some fun

a reply to: joelr

Throw away your computer and flute and any other tool that emerged from a science discovery and start from scratch with your LOA. Then your complaints will have merit. Now they are just silly.

so a flute came from a science discovery? Was a patent issued? I must have missed that in the history of music; and obviously you have a peer reviewed paper to prove that.

See there you go again playing with words, exactly what you accuse others of doing. No merit just silly, rhetoric

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: joelr

Throw away your computer and flute and any other tool that emerged from a science discovery and start from scratch with your LOA. Then your complaints will have merit. Now they are just silly.

so a flute came from a science discovery? Was a patent issued? I must have missed that in the history of music; and obviously you have a peer reviewed paper to prove that.

See there you go again playing with words, exactly what you accuse others of doing. No merit just silly, rhetoric

If memory serves, wasn't the first flute (shakuhachi) the wind blowing across a hollow reed?

a reply to: Profusion

Pseudophilosophical nonsense, no matter how good it may seem, is still just pseudophilosophical nonsense.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight

Likewise confirmation bias will work on you in pushing further away the things you try to attract through LOA.

Right, because of the energy with the negative vibes inside it.

well firstly if you try to win lotto when trying to attract "wealth" it ain't going to happen. But you will attract financial security and the tools and the circumstances to allow you to reach "your" expectations of financial freedom.

Why don't you think someone could attract something specific like a lottery win? That would be a better way to see that it works.
If one wants financial freedom and they eventually achieve that one would never know if it was simply the results of thinking positive and taking action or the results of LOA. Specific results are really the only way to know if manifestation is actually real. Win a lottery.

How could you see "many people in a forum as successful/unsuccessful", I thought it was just a computer monitor not exactly real evidence. What you're describing is what you criticize others of doing anecdotal "joelr evidence".

It's not hard. Lot's of people saying they were going to achieve financial freedom with LOA and as years rolled by nothing was really changing.
It's not scientific evidence but it's not encouraging. I don't think people are generally having success with LOA. When The Secret came out it was a huge thing but turned out to be more of a fad. Book sales on LOA material went crazy for a while and has since died way down.

You either genuinely want to believe or are just here wasting everyone's time - which is it?

How dare you. I don't answer to you. This forum is for discussing metaphysics, which I am doing.
If you don't like my particular questions fine but why do you assume to speak for everyone?

And why would you assume all questions have to proclaim your particular brand of metaphysics to be true?

Where in the rules does it say one cannot engage in LOA discussion unless they "genuinely want to believe"?

See if you can manifest less ego.