UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: crazyewok
Whats intresting is this is going beyond left and right.

Lot of lefties seem to want out too.

Only the labour die hards seem to be in support of staying.

This is the first time the British people will be voting based on what they feel is best for them and the British people that's not about ones politics. This why the end game will be OUT!!

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Arrogant Eurocrap like that's just makes me want to vote out more.

So not helping the "in" campaign.

I wasn't trying to help any campaign. Most certainly not the "in" campaign. I was merely refreshing everbodies memory here WHOM wanted to join the EU (the Brits) and WHOM were opposed (the French). I also explained WHY the UK joined the EU (they were doing badly on their own).

Vote like you want, but please base you votes on facts. The idea some of you seem to have that the UK was forced by some "Brussels" bureaucrats to join the club is ridiculous. There are no "shackles" to break. You are here off your own free will, no force applied. Get your facts straight.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamiteThis is the first time the British people will be voting based on what they feel is best for them and the British people that's not about ones politics. This why the end game will be OUT!!

Wrong again. It actually is the SECOND time the "British People" are voting on this matter. In 1975 they voted "in". Get the facts straight please.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Get the facts straight please.

We voted on continued membership of the ECC in 1975, not the EU as that was formed in 1993.
We have had many treaties since then and a lot has changed.

OT: I will be definitely voting out.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamiteThis is the first time the British people will be voting based on what they feel is best for them and the British people that's not about ones politics. This why the end game will be OUT!!

Wrong again. It actually is the SECOND time the "British People" are voting on this matter. In 1975 they voted "in". Get the facts straight please.

You are correct about it being the 2nd time, slip my find. However, the vote in 1975 was ECC and was politically driven and not about EU, that was 1993 I think. I know because I was there for both!!

Cheap and tacky shot! About so called facts straight. Nevermind.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamiteThis is the first time the British people will be voting based on what they feel is best for them and the British people that's not about ones politics. This why the end game will be OUT!!

Wrong again. It actually is the SECOND time the "British People" are voting on this matter. In 1975 they voted "in". Get the facts straight please.

Are you sure? 1975 was ECC and 1993 was EU Membership.

How many letters after your name I wonder. Let me guess, 0.

One thing is clear. After 9 pages of posts to this thread, only a very small number intend to vote IN so far. And the OUT voters are reporting that there associates, friends etc etc only seem to prefer OUT. Which is indicative of the fact that the so call official / media driven polls / others etc are being misreported! Doesn't surprise me.

It will be interesting to see what the final ATS vote count is in June. SO please keep posting the dirt, issues and points for debate and shame etc.

originally posted by: 83Liberty

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Get the facts straight please.

We voted on continued membership of the ECC in 1975, not the EU as that was formed in 1993.
We have had many treaties since then and a lot has changed.

OT: I will be definitely voting out.

Correct and join the very popular club!

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
One thing is clear. After 9 pages of posts to this thread, only a very small number intend to vote IN so far.

Of course. But this forum (and this thread) hardly provides a good sample of the UK population, methinks

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamiteAre you sure? 1975 was ECC and 1993 was EU Membership.

There was no referendum in 1993. Just 1975 and the coming one in 2016.

How many letters after your name I wonder. Let me guess, 0.

You're about as accurate there as you were when you counted the number of referendums held in the UK

The referendum in 1975 was to stay part of the European Common Market NOT to give away our sovereignity to unelected beaucrats. My mum is 87 amd remembers it well. This was the wording on the pamphlet sent out by Government in the run up to that referendum

WILL PARLIAMENT
LOSE ITS POWER?

Another anxiety expressed about Britain's membership of the Common Market is that Parliament could lose its supremacy, and we would have to obey laws passed by unelected 'faceless bureaucrats' sitting in their headquarters in Brussels.

What are the facts?

Fact No. 1 is that in the modern world even the Super Powers like America and Russia do not have complete freedom of action. Medium-sized nations like Britain are more and more subject to economic and political forces we cannot control on our own.

A striking recent example of the impact of such forces is the way the Arab oil-producing nations brought about an energy and financial crisis not only in Britain but throughout a great part of the world.

Since we cannot go it alone in the modern world, Britain has for years been a member of international groupings like the United Nations, NATO and the International Monetary Fund.

Membership of such groupings imposes both rights and duties, but has not deprived us of our national identity, or changed our way of life.

Membership of the Common Market also imposes new rights and duties on Britain, but does not deprive us of our national identity. To say that membership could force Britain to eat Euro-bread or drink Euro-beer is nonsense.

Fact No. 2. No important new policy can be decided in Brussels or anywhere else without the consent of a British Minister answerable to a British Government and British Parliament.

The top decision-making body in the Market is the Council of Ministers, which is composed of senior Ministers representing each of the nine member governments.

It is the Council of Ministers, and not the market's officials, who take the important decisions. These decisions can be taken only if all the members of the Council agree. The Minister representing Britain can veto any proposal for a new law or a new tax if he considers it to be against British interests. Ministers from the other Governments have the same right to veto.

All the nine member countries also agree that any changes or additions to the Market Treaties must be acceptable to their own Governments and Parliaments.

Remember: All the other countries in the Market today enjoy, like us, democratically elected Governments answerable to their own Parliaments and their own voters. They do not want to weaken their Parliaments any more than we would."

Fact No. 3. The British Parliament in Westminster retains the final right to repeal the Act which took us into the Market on January 1, 1973. Thus our continued membership will depend on the continuing assent of Parliament.

The White Paper on the new Market terms recently presented to Parliament by the Prime Minister declares that through membership of the Market we are better able to advance and protect our national interests. This is the essence of sovereignty.

Fact No. 4. On April 9, 1975, the House of Commons voted by 396 to 170 in favour of staying in on the new terms.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Look at the concerns British people had back in 1975 concerns about faceless unelected people making decisions for our Country. Well those voters were lied to as we know now so this is the first time British people have been able to vote on a closer union with the EU which wasnt what the British people agreed to in 1975.

I see you are from the Netherlands and appear to view the UK with contempt and you are just one person but your attitude is exactly how the whole of the EU seem to see us, we are OK to cough up the money but that is about it.

As the EU is so wonderful strange that Holland now seem to want a referendum also. I hope we leave in June and the money we give to the EU can be spent on our own Country and as we appear to be so irrelevant to the EU I am sure they wont miss our money will they!a reply to: anxiouswens

originally posted by: crazyewok
The fact it’s a bureaucratic nightmare and resistant to reform and change.

No, that is a perception and not a bureaucratic nightmare. Speaking as somebody who has actually dealt with the EU, it is a remarkably efficient operation compared to the sometimes incompetent Whitehall.

One layer of big government and bureaucracy is bad enough. Why do we need to pay £55 million a day for ANOTHER layer?

It is £37 million a day, or 58 pence for every UK resident a day, and it is money quite well spent. Whitehall costs a lot more.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
Out, if they vote to stay in I'll be cool with it.
I just hope people make their own minds up without buying into all the spin, empty promises, doctored statistics and fear mongering that's going to be elevated to stupid levels over the coming months.

Concur. Hopefully common sense will drive peoples decision.

Unfortunately, the Daily Lie and general anger at authorities is driving peoples' decision.

originally posted by: 83Liberty

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Get the facts straight please.

We voted on continued membership of the ECC in 1975, not the EU as that was formed in 1993.
We have had many treaties since then and a lot has changed.

OT: I will be definitely voting out.

The vote in 1975 was about the EEC (not the ECC), which was later renamed to the EU as the UK agreed to through subsequent treaties (it was not a majority vote; all the member states had to agree including our elected ones; it wasn't forced upon us).

originally posted by: anxiouswens
The referendum in 1975 was to stay part of the European Common Market NOT to give away our sovereignity to unelected beaucrats.

Oh my. Where do I even begin.

1. We are still part of the common market.
2. We have not given away our sovereignty to unelected bureaucrats.
3. The MEPs are democratically elected. The councillors are appointed by the head of state of each member country (so yes those are unelected in the same sense that the PM is unelected to the position as PM, but it is nothin like the unelected Lords).
4. Parliament is still the highest court in the UK. We have not given our sovereignty away regardless of what Denial Farage tells you. Only that they may refer certain matters to the ECJ whenever they feel it is appropriate, but it is at Parliament's discretion.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
One thing is clear. After 9 pages of posts to this thread, only a very small number intend to vote IN so far. And the OUT voters are reporting that there associates, friends etc etc only seem to prefer OUT. Which is indicative of the fact that the so call official / media driven polls / others etc are being misreported! Doesn't surprise me.

It will be interesting to see what the final ATS vote count is in June. SO please keep posting the dirt, issues and points for debate and shame etc.

I will definitely vote OUT of the idea of the UK leaving the EU.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
The referendum in 1975 was to stay part of the European Common Market NOT to give away our sovereignity to unelected beaucrats. My mum is 87 amd remembers it well. This was the wording on the pamphlet sent out by Government in the run up to that referendum

So you are re-voting about 1975's vote and not about today's EU?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
One thing is clear. After 9 pages of posts to this thread, only a very small number intend to vote IN so far.

Of course. But this forum (and this thread) hardly provides a good sample of the UK population, methinks

That is correct about sample. However, when you have such a low IN vote and the IN and the UNDEC vote added together don't even make up 2/3 rd's of the OUT vote you get a basic idea of where the campaign is currently heading. But yes there is time yet for the IN vote to increase but I would not hold your breath too much.

Don't be fooled or by so niaive as to trust the official polls as displayed by the media, you only have to look at the last GE.

Like I said I believe the OUT vote on 23 June 2016 will be around 55%. But I could be wrong.

originally posted by: moniker

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
One thing is clear. After 9 pages of posts to this thread, only a very small number intend to vote IN so far. And the OUT voters are reporting that there associates, friends etc etc only seem to prefer OUT. Which is indicative of the fact that the so call official / media driven polls / others etc are being misreported! Doesn't surprise me.

It will be interesting to see what the final ATS vote count is in June. SO please keep posting the dirt, issues and points for debate and shame etc.

I will definitely vote OUT of the idea of the UK leaving the EU.

That is your prerogative and this ATS vote welcomes all IN, OUT and yet UNDEC votes and opinions to this thread.

Note at the moment that the IN vote is quite low. But time for it to improve for sure.