UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: grainofsand

Lol at the irony of a Tory Prime Minister providing you with the vote and also advocating that you should vote to stay in.

Thanks for the early morning chuckle!

David Cameron isn't providing the vote for the people... he's doing it as it's an issue that has been eating away at his party for decades and continues to do so and because of the "rise" of UKIP.
He couldn't give a crap whether we get a vote or not, but sure... fairplay to him for doing it.

originally posted by: eletheia

But you trust all those faceless eurocrats


At least the Tories are the devil we know !!!

So it's better the devil you know, that's what you're saying?
If the Tories had their way, we'd have no unions, no rights AT ALL at work, no sick pay, no overtime whatsoever, no maternity or paternity leave and other things we almost take for granted now.

It's only because of these "faceless Eurocrats" that we have many of these things, well them and Labour (minimum wage etc etc)

I am not sure one way or the other... the choice of either EU or Tory is not great.
Obviously my comment was tongue in cheek earlier as I really am undecided and can see arguments for and against.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Unwise decision. The UK people would not allow them to do that. They would have a revolution on there hands if they did that on top of everything else they have done. So your reason for IN is an error in judgement me thinks. But its your vote.

It comes down to petite pois or sprouts! Grow some sprouts and help the people take there country back!

Yeah because we really revolted when they attacked the disabled and cut their benefits and we're out on the streets about the numbers of people using food banks and there has been mass violence and fighting back about all of the care in the community being decimated and the NHS being privatised and mental health being cut... and.... etc etc etc.

No.. because they're sly, they do it under the guise of austerity and so long as the rich are looked after and taxes are cut for those at the top, then it's all ok. So long as they tackle one poor group or minority group at a time, they get away with it.

They pit the poor against the poor, they spin and lie constantly.
More zero hours or 12 hour contract jobs for all!! Lowest unemployment EVER!!

Yaaaaaaay.....

Current ATS Vote Status after 5 pages

%
Eligible IN = 19.05
Eligible OUT = 54.76
Eligible UNDEC = 16.67

InEligible IN = 0.00
InEligible OUT = 9.52
InEligible UNDEC = 0.00
Overall IN OUT UNDEC
% 100.00 % 19.05 64.29 16.67


Its interesting to note that the IN vote + the UNDEC vote doesn't even reach 40% as yet anyway.

We need more Brit contributers

originally posted by: blupblup

originally posted by: eletheia

But you trust all those faceless eurocrats


At least the Tories are the devil we know !!!

So it's better the devil you know, that's what you're saying?
If the Tories had their way, we'd have no unions, no rights AT ALL at work, no sick pay, no overtime whatsoever, no maternity or paternity leave and other things we almost take for granted now.

It's only because of these "faceless Eurocrats" that we have many of these things, well them and Labour (minimum wage etc etc)

I am not sure one way or the other... the choice of either EU or Tory is not great.
Obviously my comment was tongue in cheek earlier as I really am undecided and can see arguments for and against.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Unwise decision. The UK people would not allow them to do that. They would have a revolution on there hands if they did that on top of everything else they have done. So your reason for IN is an error in judgement me thinks. But its your vote.

It comes down to petite pois or sprouts! Grow some sprouts and help the people take there country back!

Yeah because we really revolted when they attacked the disabled and cut their benefits and we're out on the streets about the numbers of people using food banks and there has been mass violence and fighting back about all of the care in the community being decimated and the NHS being privatised and mental health being cut... and.... etc etc etc.

No.. because they're sly, they do it under the guise of austerity and so long as the rich are looked after and taxes are cut for those at the top, then it's all ok. So long as they tackle one poor group or minority group at a time, they get away with it.

They pit the poor against the poor, they spin and lie constantly.
More zero hours or 12 hour contract jobs for all!! Lowest unemployment EVER!!

Yaaaaaaay.....

I actually believe that the British people have lost more power and influence since we joined the EU and if we leave we will get some of that back for sure! Also it will be a clear message to whoever governs in the future to remember the power of the people should policies stray too far to the right. I also believe that a BREXIT may well be a catalyst to
political system change in the UK. And hopefully and finally the pushing through of PR!

Vote out if you want see the possibilities and democracy grow. Vote in for the SQ and less democracy and the fueling of more greed for the 20% who already have sufficient! Vote for the majority not the minority who don't care about ordinary folk.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite


The reason we joined the EU is because we were losing ground on many EU countries and the post-war boom was no more.
We joined up to trade and be part of a large and prosperous trading market and block with huge pulling power.
Where it got all messed up was the politics really.... While I listed some advantages in posts previously, I do concede that a sovereign nation should be able to decide its own destiny and laws and so on and that people do have genuine concerns when unelected leaders and politicians and often non-politicians are sat making decisions about the UK and her citizens and we cannot have a say - but there is a lot more to the whole situation that to just say "I don't like being dictated to by Europe, we should just pull out" as I think there are many benefits too.

The problem is that everybody (politicians, businesses etc) has an agenda in this and there will be very little thought about what is actually best for the general population and ordinary citizen on the street... there very rarely is in politics.




Also read a piece on Boris earlier, was pretty spot on... and fairly ironic seeing that BoJo was once editor of the Spectator.


blogs.spectator.co.uk...

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I vote in as apart from the xenophobes I can't see a very strong reason to say otherwise. Whatever argument Farage makes I balance against the money he has made for being an MEP and famously declining to actually vote on many issues, whatever options other MPs make for an out vote I will balance against what we lose from an out vote.

For Labour, that party who steadfastedly said they wouldn't offer the people of the UK a referendum on the subject: they have little argument to make as they only seem pissed that we are allowed to offer an opinion. For anyone saying that this in some way has anything to do with Scotland and Westminster and is therefore voting out, well done, nice to know you are in utter disagreement with the SNP who have stated all along that they believe being in Europe is better than being out. Don't get bitter about it though.....

You are entitled to your belief and vote. And yes Labour lost the election because they did not offer a referendum. I don't quite know why. It was foolish.

But 5-10 years from now will be when the big regret comes if UK stays in! Remember what I state here! OUT is the only wise action for me and for the longer term benefit of the British people as a whole. Not the greedy who wants us to stay to further fuel their greed who don't care if things go tits up later because they have their security and insulation from the impact. The greedy/elite/aristocracy/etc wants us IN (that is who Cameron and is want to keep my job followers represent) - Ask your self why when we are relinquishing power and control of our own destiny to Brussels and the EU!

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite


The reason we joined the EU is because we were losing ground on many EU countries and the post-war boom was no more.
We joined up to trade and be part of a large and prosperous trading market and block with huge pulling power.
Where it got all messed up was the politics really.... While I listed some advantages in posts previously, I do concede that a sovereign nation should be able to decide its own destiny and laws and so on and that people do have genuine concerns when unelected leaders and politicians and often non-politicians are sat making decisions about the UK and her citizens and we cannot have a say - but there is a lot more to the whole situation that to just say "I don't like being dictated to by Europe, we should just pull out" as I think there are many benefits too.

The problem is that everybody (politicians, businesses etc) has an agenda in this and there will be very little thought about what is actually best for the general population and ordinary citizen on the street... there very rarely is in politics.




Also read a piece on Boris earlier, was pretty spot on... and fairly ironic seeing that BoJo was once editor of the Spectator.


blogs.spectator.co.uk...

I get the irony, hence why I would beware and not misguided by the article. The REF is not about BOJO but about the long term benefits of the British people and their right to control there own destiny and maintain there right to improved democracy!

Out. This is the most simple layman's reasoning for this. The Governbent wants us in so we can be ruled better. The media are now going full scale ahead spreading doom if we don't. This is spin.

I don't like Governbent, I want the opposite to them. That pig molesting muppet Cameron seems to forget that before the European union came about the UK was doing OK.

You know it's not that I'm against humanity uniting, I'd love that... But United under someone's rule? I'm done with accepting a government that never has an never will serve it's people. Freedom = the choice of who will rule you.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
But 5-10 years from now will be when the big regret comes if UK stays in! Remember what I state here! OUT is the only wise action for me and for the longer term benefit of the British people as a whole.

^^ This ^^
I was daydreaming today while working, and thought if we do end up voting stay at least I'll be able to say it was # all to do with me if it all goes tits up after with our EU membership.

I'm sure I'd not be as bitter as the Scots nationalists were after losing their referendum, remember cries of "traitors" and all the rest of it, but I will certainly remember who advocated 'stay' and remind them if they whinge about Europe in the future.

I'm voting out.

Let's get our country back and move on. The E.U is run by unelected commissioners appointed by the E.U Governments who decide laws and all MEP's do is debate the laws without any real power, it's a con job,

The entire Kinnock family have done well out of it and I never had the option to vote for or against any of them.

The poll on the Huff Post U.K site today Showed 63% want out. I hope that is the case come June 23rd.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
I'm voting out.

Good man
I haven't met anyone in 'real' life yet who has said they wish us to stay in the EU, everyone I've asked wants sovereignty back for our country. Well, I say everyone but not counting all my friends who are nationals of other EU countries and would choose stay if they had the vote.
I'm glad they don't have the vote, and I'm glad that pisses Sturgeon and the SNP off after they gave them the vote in the Scottish referendum lol

a reply to: grainofsand

I would say around 10% of the people I have spoken to want to stay in, around 20% undecided with the remainder voting out. I appreciate it's not very scientific, but I am surprised by the number that want out.

The scaremongering is laughable, but not surprising. We just have to look at all the B.S being spouted during the Scottish Independence referendum, too many believed the B.S and it swayed the vote.

Roll on the 23rd June.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: grainofsand

I would say around 10% of the people I have spoken to want to stay in, around 20% undecided with the remainder voting out. I appreciate it's not very scientific, but I am surprised by the number that want out.

The scaremongering is laughable, but not surprising. We just have to look at all the B.S being spouted during the Scottish Independence referendum, too many believed the B.S and it swayed the vote.

Roll on the 23rd June.

Same here with people i speak too.

To be honest the "in" campaign seems pretty pathetic.

The EU attitude sucks. The "reforms" old pig shagger got were literally nothing.
And the EU seems to not give a dam.

They dont want us in and we dont want to be in.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I do know a few undecided and/or apathetic folk, maybe 10% in my circles, but local Conservative MP is voting out as well, perhaps it's just where I live here in the South West of England.
Curious though, all my family and friends back in South Wales are all voting out as well...trying not to get my hopes up too much based on anecdotal evidence lol.

The scaremongering is awful, I just hope the rest of us in the UK have learned from the experience the Scots had.
To be fair to Alex Salmond, he stated in a Channel 4 news interview yesterday evening that he believes the UK would of course strike trade deals and survive well enough outside of the EU, just that he thinks it would be better to stay.
I couldn't have accused him of any scaremongering at all, but Jon Snow was pinning him down with the questions and I bet the words were like acid in his mouth because he couldn't state the UK would go to # after leaving.

originally posted by: auraofblack
Out. This is the most simple layman's reasoning for this. The Governbent wants us in so we can be ruled better. The media are now going full scale ahead spreading doom if we don't. This is spin.

I don't like Governbent, I want the opposite to them. That pig molesting muppet Cameron seems to forget that before the European union came about the UK was doing OK.

You know it's not that I'm against humanity uniting, I'd love that... But United under someone's rule? I'm done with accepting a government that never has an never will serve it's people. Freedom = the choice of who will rule you.

Concur! Spin IN and avoid OUT. Hope that people can see this for what it is! And refuse to accept the same old SQ Spin!

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I do know a few undecided and/or apathetic folk, maybe 10% in my circles, but local Conservative MP is voting out as well, perhaps it's just where I live here in the South West of England.
Curious though, all my family and friends back in South Wales are all voting out as well...trying not to get my hopes up too much based on anecdotal evidence lol.

The scaremongering is awful, I just hope the rest of us in the UK have learned from the experience the Scots had.
To be fair to Alex Salmond, he stated in a Channel 4 news interview yesterday evening that he believes the UK would of course strike trade deals and survive well enough outside of the EU, just that he thinks it would be better to stay.
I couldn't have accused him of any scaremongering at all, but Jon Snow was pinning him down with the questions and I bet the words were like acid in his mouth because he couldn't state the UK would go to # after leaving.

Its interesting that nearly all contacts I have there is a similar pattern to the ATS vote, yet the poll numbers they give on the news, eg sky etc have it close which makes me very suspicious of the polls. I think the final vote on 23 June will 55% OUT if not more.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I vote in as apart from the xenophobes I can't see a very strong reason to say otherwise. Whatever argument Farage makes I balance against the money he has made for being an MEP and famously declining to actually vote on many issues, whatever options other MPs make for an out vote I will balance against what we lose from an out vote.

For Labour, that party who steadfastedly said they wouldn't offer the people of the UK a referendum on the subject: they have little argument to make as they only seem pissed that we are allowed to offer an opinion. For anyone saying that this in some way has anything to do with Scotland and Westminster and is therefore voting out, well done, nice to know you are in utter disagreement with the SNP who have stated all along that they believe being in Europe is better than being out. Don't get bitter about it though.....

You are entitled to your belief and vote. And yes Labour lost the election because they did not offer a referendum. I don't quite know why. It was foolish.

But 5-10 years from now will be when the big regret comes if UK stays in! Remember what I state here! OUT is the only wise action for me and for the longer term benefit of the British people as a whole. Not the greedy who wants us to stay to further fuel their greed who don't care if things go tits up later because they have their security and insulation from the impact. The greedy/elite/aristocracy/etc wants us IN (that is who Cameron and is want to keep my job followers represent) - Ask your self why when we are relinquishing power and control of our own destiny to Brussels and the EU!

If you are serious about conducting a poll then you should refrain from bias either way otherwise you are just being shown as attempting to get people to have the same opinion as you. You are hijacking your own thread. You would have been better calling it "I want to leave the EU, who agrees with me?"

As I said in my original post, if and when the actual people representing both sides of this present full and clear facts then I will make my decision, not based on peoples opinion. For what it's worth, I've had a peripheral involvement in setting up places of work - and giving work to people - in the UK through a mixture of tax breaks and incentives (all legal before anyone thinks otherwise) from both our government and the EU from a non EU company that could just have easily have placed the work elsewhere in the world, so it's not as black and white as you would love to paint it.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I do know a few undecided and/or apathetic folk, maybe 10% in my circles, but local Conservative MP is voting out as well, perhaps it's just where I live here in the South West of England.
Curious though, all my family and friends back in South Wales are all voting out as well...trying not to get my hopes up too much based on anecdotal evidence lol.

The scaremongering is awful, I just hope the rest of us in the UK have learned from the experience the Scots had.
To be fair to Alex Salmond, he stated in a Channel 4 news interview yesterday evening that he believes the UK would of course strike trade deals and survive well enough outside of the EU, just that he thinks it would be better to stay.
I couldn't have accused him of any scaremongering at all, but Jon Snow was pinning him down with the questions and I bet the words were like acid in his mouth because he couldn't state the UK would go to # after leaving.

Got to love jon snow

No idea what my MP stance is as she only gave birth yesterday and said wont make a decision yet

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I hope for a more convincing result either way for the issue to be put to bed for a generation at least.
See the simmering still in Scotland with 55/45, that referendum decided nothing.

...I don't take much notice of polls now after the fiasco of the last general election, this ATS poll thread is interesting though so cheers for keeping the tally and posting it here.
I must say I'm not surprised with the preliminary results lol

funny thing i'm noticing.
all the people here that want out, or on radio and tv, all claim scaremongering, media spin from the stay campaign.
me, wanting to stay, all i see is scaremongering and media spin from the out team.

have we all shut our bias sensors off?