UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: nonspecific
I am a bit surprised a pamphlet has not yet been delivered from our Dave yet.

I bet we get one soon.

I'm sure we will, or a 'pledge' promised, or any other tactic I myself would employ if I was Dave.
You've got to ask yourself about trusting the leader of the apparently 'hated' Conservative party advocating 'remain' in the EU though.
Do you trust our Dave?

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
I am a bit surprised a pamphlet has not yet been delivered from our Dave yet.

I bet we get one soon.

I'm sure we will, or a 'pledge' promised, or any other tactic I myself would employ if I was Dave.
You've got to ask yourself about trusting the leader of the apparently 'hated' Conservative party advocating 'remain' in the EU though.
Do you trust our Dave?

This is where it all gets a little bit interesting for me as an individual.

Dave want's to stay in the EU and I dislike Dave. I mean really dislike the pompous Eton twat that he is.

So My gut instinct says go against what the Tory muppet want's because I don't like the Tories and come from a pit town in the Midlands and am poor.

But Uncle Nigel wants out of the EU and I dislike him even more because he is a bigoted pompous cockwomble and has a picture of Thatcher on his bedroom wall so I should want to vote in because he want's out.

Then there is Boris who also wants out and although he is also a rich buffoon he is also quite clever and funny so I am undecided because funny is one thing but Rich over privileged Tory is another.

And then we have Corbyn who I would really like to agree with but find it hard to do so because every time he tries to speak someone screams "LOONY LEFTY" and I never actually get to hear what he is trying to say.

It really is a tricky one and I sometimes wish that it was a good old fashioned Good Vs Evil type question.

Maybe I will toss a coin.

a reply to: nonspecific

You missed out George Galloway lol

Make your own mind up with the easily searchable information out there fella, read from both sides and make your own informed guess.
There are no guarantees that life will be rainbows and marshmallows in the event of either result, just speculation.
I believe in sovereignty of state and smaller accountable government, our Dave does not.
You can only make your own informed choice.

a reply to: nonspecific


I see your predicament but surely you should be voting on facts and not
personalities? There are some things in the link at the end of this post which
will give you some idea of the strangle hold the EU has on us, The CONTROL
factor is for me a biggie for getting out before we become EU zombies .....

In 1973 the EEC started life as a group of six Nations. the purpose was 'to
preserve peace by promoting greater economic co-operation' they
would become integrated economically, and would therefor have too much to
loose going to war with one another.

The EEC then became the EU which has seen political and economic
integration accelerating. The EU now presides over monetary union, and a
long list of other EU legislation, which all members are bound to follow and
has extended way beyond the economy to include - Home Affairs and Foreign Policy.

As the EU scope has broadened, so has the amount of legislation pumped out
and sent out to Europe's capitals increased.

*The Lisbon Treaty* extended the EU's reach over Foreign Policy and Home
Affairs thereby extending the EU's scope well beyond economic integration.

According to a recent study by 'Businesses for Britain' the average household
will be £933 better off on a 'Brexit', UK businesses will save £33.3billion.

On 'Brexit' Brussels would no longer have a direct say over UK Law, and the
European Court of Justice would cease to have absolute authority over the
UK government.

*The Lisbon Treaty* gave more power to the European Parliament reducing
the decision making power of EU member states. The treaty also gave, for the
first time the legal right for countries to withdraw from the EU.

Under EU law the UK is not permitted to apply standard VAT rate below 15%
this influences the price of everyday items, including child car seats.The limit
could be repealed on a 'Brexit'.

Regarding trading the EU in all its time has made no headway in trading with
commonwealth countries like India, Australia Malaysia and China, Indonesia
and the UAE.
The EU is not well set up to do this because they require the approval of ALL 28
member states.

From the EEC to the EU....*Softly, softly catchee monkey* comes
to mind.

Read more here....leave.eu...

Seems like this is going to be big news tomorrow.

www.express.co.uk...

250 top businesses backing brexit. A lot say EU red tape gets in the way. Amongst them Carphone Warehouse, Wetherspoons. Said on Sky these companies are of particular importance because they are the companies who are expanding and creating jobs and growth.

No wonder Mr Cameron took early Easter break in Lanzorate. Was he aware of this and couldnt face the music. Bet he is panicking now as the main argument he has is that leaving EU would be bad for business, seems these businesses disagree and instead say EU holding them back. Happy days just gets better.

a reply to: nonspecific

Some kind of government pamphlet delivered through the post for example or an unbiased BBC programme?

A pamphlet from Britain Stronger in Europe promoted by Labour MP Will Straw dropped on my mat this morning.







I am really hoping the funds are available for a counter pamphlet to help the undecided make an informed choice.

The last part the right way up (sorry)

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Seems like this is going to be big news tomorrow.

www.express.co.uk...

250 top businesses backing brexit. A lot say EU red tape gets in the way. Amongst them Carphone Warehouse, Wetherspoons. Said on Sky these companies are of particular importance because they are the companies who are expanding and creating jobs and growth.

No wonder Mr Cameron took early Easter break in Lanzorate. Was he aware of this and couldnt face the music. Bet he is panicking now as the main argument he has is that leaving EU would be bad for business, seems these businesses disagree and instead say EU holding them back. Happy days just gets better.

That's a game changer for the LEAVE campaign. So we have better for business to leave and safer for UK folk if we leave. Positive impact on housing, benefit costs, school places, jobs, training places for skilled jobs, NHS, country finances and sovereignty if we leave. How can we vote to stay?

a reply to: Morrad

Wow, I must be psychic!

As to an informed choice I imagine that they will both be as biased as each other.

Was there anything in there that gave you a reason to question your decision?

a reply to: nonspecific

To be honest I think it needs to be 100% biased as well to put the debate on a more even footing. I don't think one member of my family has undertaken research to make an informed choice. They are basing their decision on personal perspective only.

I wonder if most of Joe Public are like my family. If it supports their decision they will read it. If it does not support their decision it will go from the door mat to the bin after a cursory glance, raised eyebrow and a frown.

I think many of the statements on the pamphlet have been debunked. Intellectual dishonesty is also screaming out of the pamphlet. In many of the statements, they are quoting newspapers, not original sources.

To me it is a catalogue of red herrings.

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: nonspecific

To be honest I think it needs to be 100% biased as well to put the debate on a more even footing. I don't think one member of my family has undertaken research to make an informed choice. They are basing their decision on personal perspective only.

I wonder if most of Joe Public are like my family. If it supports their decision they will read it. If it does not support their decision it will go from the door mat to the bin after a cursory glance, raised eyebrow and a frown.

I think many of the statements on the pamphlet have been debunked. Intellectual dishonesty is also screaming out of the pamphlet. In many of the statements, they are quoting newspapers, not original sources.

To me it is a catalogue of red herrings.

It will be interesting to see if someone provides an analysis of these misleading statements to counter the impact on the less well informed voter.

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: nonspecific

To be honest I think it needs to be 100% biased as well to put the debate on a more even footing. I don't think one member of my family has undertaken research to make an informed choice. They are basing their decision on personal perspective only.

I wonder if most of Joe Public are like my family. If it supports their decision they will read it. If it does not support their decision it will go from the door mat to the bin after a cursory glance, raised eyebrow and a frown.

I think many of the statements on the pamphlet have been debunked. Intellectual dishonesty is also screaming out of the pamphlet. In many of the statements, they are quoting newspapers, not original sources.

To me it is a catalogue of red herrings.

It will be interesting to see if someone provides an analysis of these misleading statements to counter the impact on the less well informed voter.

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: nonspecific

I wonder if most of Joe Public are like my family. If it supports their decision they will read it. If it does not support their decision it will go from the door mat to the bin after a cursory glance, raised eyebrow and a frown.

Crumbs, you got that right. That's exactly what happened when I got a 'Remain' leaflet a week or two ago.

I didn't mention it here before because it's long gone and I've no idea who was behind sending it.

I have thought the Brexit leaflet is noticeable by its absence. Perhaps they're afraid of peaking too early...

A blog article from The Telegraph (6 years ago) which I read this afternoon. It may be old but I think it sums up what many have said in this thread. I have quoted a third of the article so it may get edited.

"Since 1970 when Heath elbowed Britain into the Common Market with no democratic mandate (the subject had barely been mentioned in his general election campaign), all the things he promised would not happen have happened. The key political decisions governing almost every aspect of our lives – from how much we’re paid to how we police our borders to what is and isn’t safe for us to eat to the way we take our measurements to how we dispose of our rubbish – now stem from faceless bureaucrats in Brussels, and not from our democratically elected representatives in Westminster.

"Membership of the European Union has changed Britain immeasurably – and unremittingly for the worst. We have been forced to destroy our fishing industry (and then watch, helplessly, as the seas round our shores, once the richest fishing waters in the world, are devastated by Spanish, French, Dutch and Belgian trawlers). We have signed up to crazy directives which have destroyed our abattoir industry, hamstrung our chemical industry, and blighted our landscape with wind turbines. We on the verge of losing our right to drink out of pint glasses and even to decide how we defend ourselves. It has cost us more money (in taxes and bureaucracy) and made us less free.

"In our hearts we know this. So how is it that Europe continues to grow inexorably against the objections of so many of its constituent peoples? Because this, like the lying about its objectives, was always part of the plan. The labyrinthine complexity of the European apparatus – the Commission, the Parliament, the Council of Ministers, the Court of Justice – was designed simultaneously to sow confusion and avoid accountability; to enable the EU to enlarge itself regardless of how many “No” votes its constitution was awarded in local referendums.

"What’s extraordinary in an age of conspiracy theories is that the greatest modern conspiracy of them all – and one that happens to be true to boot – has been so pointedly ignored by so many for so long. It’s significant that the only serious and thorough investigation there has ever been on the subject – The Great Deception by Christopher Booker and Richard North (Continuum) – went unreviewed in every national newspaper.

"The European Union has been the single greatest political disaster since the Second World War. This is rather a large and terrifying mistake for anyone to admit to having made. Perhaps too large. No wonder we’re all so determined to avoid the issue. If only we can all ignore it for long enough, seems to be the thinking, maybe it will magically disappear. It won’t."

Som e conspiracy theories are true – and the worst of them all is the European Union

Edit: I looked up the book.

The Great Deception shows how the most ambitious political project of our time has for more than 50 years been based on a colossal confidence trick - the systematic concealment from the people of Europe of what the aim of this project has always been since its inception in the late 1940s. Updated to include the recent developments in Europe, including the referendum and the upcoming votes in France and Holland. As it reveals for the first time the true story behind the long-term plan to build a politically united Europe, the authors show how all previous attempts to reconstruct the history of this project - whether written by Europhiles or Eurosceptics - have got it wrong, at almost every step along the way. With all the suspense of a detective story, drawing on thousands of books, papers, and official documents, many of which have only become publicly available in the past few years, the book traces how a handful of determined visionaries set out more than half a century ago to weld the countries of Europe into a single political state.

It will be on my Kindle by night fall.

originally posted by: berenike

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: nonspecific

I wonder if most of Joe Public are like my family. If it supports their decision they will read it. If it does not support their decision it will go from the door mat to the bin after a cursory glance, raised eyebrow and a frown.

Crumbs, you got that right. That's exactly what happened when I got a 'Remain' leaflet a week or two ago.

I didn't mention it here before because it's long gone and I've no idea who was behind sending it.

I have thought the Brexit leaflet is noticeable by its absence. Perhaps they're afraid of peaking too early...

Given the fickle nature of a lot of the people in the UK you may be right on leaving it until the last minute.

If it were me I would leave it until a couple of weeks before hand and then flood the country with as much propaganda as possible to make sure that was fresh in everyone's mind and leave no chance for the opposition to fight back.

originally posted by: nonspecific
If it were me I would leave it until a couple of weeks before hand and then flood the country with as much propaganda as possible to make sure that was fresh in everyone's mind and leave no chance for the opposition to fight back.

Like the 'pledge' 24 hours before Scotland voted in the referendum?
I reckon that made a difference for the fickle, undecided and/or uninformed voters.

This time though Murdoch, and other printed media, are for the 'Leave' campaign. I think that may swing it because so many people just blindly believe whatever their newspaper tells them.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
If it were me I would leave it until a couple of weeks before hand and then flood the country with as much propaganda as possible to make sure that was fresh in everyone's mind and leave no chance for the opposition to fight back.

Like the 'pledge' 24 hours before Scotland voted in the referendum?
I reckon that made a difference for the fickle, undecided and/or uninformed voters.

This time though Murdoch, and other printed media, are for the 'Leave' campaign. I think that may swing it because so many people just blindly believe whatever their newspaper tells them.

The more I think about it the more likely that tactic would work.

A well timed blanket assault at just the right time and from all angles would most likely sway a lot of unsure voters.

If they do it then they deserve to win.

a reply to: nonspecific

I can only hope that the 'leave' campaign successfully employ that tactic to swing it.
As I've said before, I'll take the influence of the alleged entity 'Satan' if it get's us an exit from the EU.
...Murdoch and others are useful enough if there is no Satan though lol

#voteleave

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

I can only hope that the 'leave' campaign successfully employ that tactic to swing it.
As I've said before, I'll take the influence of the alleged entity 'Satan' if it get's us an exit from the EU.
...Murdoch and others are useful enough if there is no Satan though lol

#voteleave

Satan most likely declined due to moral reasons and passed on Murdoch's mobile number.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Satan most likely declined due to moral reasons and passed on Murdoch's mobile number.

Lol, and matey who owns the Express