UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: visitors
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

How are immigrants causing all the terrible housing to trash our remaining green or wild spaces and be built as the eyesores they are, in ever urbanising Britain?
How did immigrants cause education to have the bottom fall out of it?
How are immigrants responsible for society being dumbed down to such an extent?
How did immigrants cause infrastructure to be so wrongly implemented?

I've had The Crown pursue me for doing nothing wrong at all, at great expense to the tax payer. This is not an isolated incident. The courts are full of cases that shouldn't be there. The law is corrupt. They'll spend money to ruin your life, for defending yourself against others ruining your life (just one example), and then that causes loads of other knock on effects to waste public money - like for example paying people for housing they can't use properly, and the reason they can't use it properly is because the governments enforcers pursued them for defending themselves.

I've had my life further ruined by Her Majs Finest, I won't go into the details. Stopping immigrants coming here isn't going to solve the massive actual problems of here. I welcome as many as possible, because it'll help flood the actual corruption out of existence.

There is not enough space here as is, but that is because of urbanisation and how the land has been used. It'd be different if we had a decent society to defend, as if somehow things were ok and then lots of migrants came here and ruined it. But it's the other way around. This place is like the dark ages, and it was already way overcrowded anyway and way too built up, before the more recent (ie, not counting the Commonwealth & Empire related acquisitions, and not counting post-WW2 immigrants) immigration.

You should read the whole thread then you will have your answers. It appears that your issues have nothing much to do with the EU or whether we are IN or OUT! But opportunities for you would im sure be greater if Immigration was reduced or even reversed.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Is it not feasible that we actually need these low paid immigrant workers to fill the gap that the benefit culture slobs of today are not filling themselves?

Remove the bandage and we are forced to deal with the injury

The whole thing is fake. The economy is a big fake.

It's ignoring the truth to believe it's even possible to live properly off benefits, for a start. It's ignoring the truth of how loads of employed people do f-all, and get paid anyway. That's no different to anyone that manages to somehow have a life despite being on benefits.

Not to pick on anyone specific, but for example - the amount of jobs where somehow employers can pay people to man phones, who know nothing about the products they're selling. If you make the mistake of calling them for info, they read off the same website to you that you already read before phoning them up.
There are so many jobs like that, they are no different to taking benefits and doing nothing with it. If they were on benefits they'd be taking less money in for doing as much good.
Rip-offs all over, from people who don't have a clue what they're doing.

A system that pays things like hundreds of grands in bonuses, to people doing nothing worthwhile, is as bad for 'the economy' as one that takes their taxes and dishes it out to others.

This reality, is a big fake. It's a sham.

I'm stopped from working because I'd do it properly and because I can't be blackmailed and things like that. If I didn't want a job, then they'd change things to force me to take one.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Is it not feasible that we actually need these low paid immigrant workers to fill the gap that the benefit culture slobs of today are not filling themselves?

Remove the bandage and we are forced to deal with the injury

I would like to think that would be the case but I fear we would just end up with a shortage of people prepared to mop hospital floors, stack shelves and the like.

In my town most of these kind of jobs are done by immigrants, either EU or from India and a huge amount of white English people just mooch about on tax credits and housing benefit...

I cannot see them responding to a call to arms when they could be sat at home eating hobnobs and watching storage wars repeats on ITV4.

originally posted by: visitorsI'm stopped from working because I'd do it properly and because I can't be blackmailed and things like that. If I didn't want a job, then they'd change things to force me to take one.

Too lazy to pack frozen pasties in boxes through an agency job then? Okay.
People like you create the employment need for my EU mates who easily find agency work.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I don't like the sound of lots of Euro things at all. The diktats on what seeds can be grown by organic growers for example. The class system for grown produce - based on how it looks! nothing to do with it being food.

I doubt not being in Europe would make it easier to get work. At least currently, if it were feasible for me to work in another country, legally I could do that easily if that other country is also part of the EU.
The framework for being able to work - and claim benefits - in any EU country has been there since we joined. But there's no coherency in terms of all that as a system of access, it's just available if you have the means to make use of it.

If there was an actual galactic federation of some kind, or there were actually evolved aliens of universal consciousness here influencing things, then aspects of the EU, and the UN, do seem to be the kind of thing they might try to introduce here. Which is tragic really, imagine having to influence anyone into thinking of themselves as something like a global citizen.

a reply to: nonspecific

Yep, lazy bastards who were born in the UK create the employment gap and need for EU workers doing unskilled jobs.
Slash benefits is my suggestion.
I'm ashamed when my EU mates call my British mates out for being lazy bastards.
There is plenty of minimum wage work in the UK, just UK people don't want to do it as much.
Lazy bastards is all, slash their benefits I say.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Yep, lazy bastards who were born in the UK create the employment gap and need for EU workers doing unskilled jobs.
Slash benefits is my suggestion.
I'm ashamed when my EU mates call my British mates out for being lazy bastards.
There is plenty of minimum wage work in the UK, just UK people don't want to do it as much.
Lazy bastards is all, slash their benefits I say.

That's pretty scary talk there mate.

Almost sounds like the whole situation was created to make the average man on the street demand that we scrap unemployment benefit........


Hmmm.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Almost sounds like the whole situation was created to make the average man on the street demand that we scrap unemployment benefit........

I couldn't comment, but so long as EU nationals easily find minimum wage employed work while Brits whinge there is no work about then I have to agree with my EU national mates. Lazy bastards.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Almost sounds like the whole situation was created to make the average man on the street demand that we scrap unemployment benefit........

I couldn't comment, but so long as EU nationals easily find minimum wage employed work while Brits whinge there is no work about then I have to agree with my EU national mates. Lazy bastards.

It just all sounds a little like "problem, solution.reaction" to me.

As in how do they get us to give up benefits?

Maybe give them to outsiders and make us demand that they change the rules.....

I do not trust them one tiny little bit.

a reply to: grainofsand

"Too lazy to pack frozen pasties in boxes through an agency job then? Okay.
People like you create the employment need for my EU mates who easily find agency work."

I've never had an opportunity like that no. I have worked 12 hour shifts, 5 a week and then another 10 hour shift, in the types of factories we had up here. For minimum wage which back then was £3.10 an hour.

Explain how anyone being paid to do things like pack frozen pasties, for an agency - remembering that the reason agencies exist is because they earn part of your tiny wage for advertising the job - in any way building a country worth having?

I don't even support non-organic produce by buying it. Would it be ethical of me to work for it? What kind of example would that set - sell out, have no values, oh but then pretend that would make for a country worth having.

Why do you think those types of jobs are an ok thing to exist? is that what you consider a world worth having? Cause you'd have to be brain dead to be able to do those kinds of jobs, and that is only based on the monotony of them. Even if the working environment was ok in those cases,

how can you or anyone else possibly justify having people so stupid that they are ok doing jobs like that?

What kind of world is it you want? You think it's a good thing to have a requirement to churn out lots of surplus people, who need to be kept really low IQ, to be able to put up with 'work' like that?

What kind of future is that going to build? It's all already falling apart because those kinds of considerations have been ignored.

What's the point of wasting capable people in jobs like that? What's the point of creating 'proles' in such high numbers to man those kinds of jobs?

The kind of person who is able to build a country or world worth having, would not be ok with capable people having to choose from jobs like that, in an economy like that.

So if that is the kind of system you support? Then it isn't worth saving then is it. Being in Europe can't possibly make that situation any worse. It seems that other countries in Europe are as bad as that anyway.

a reply to: visitors

Is that why you are out of work, because you refuse to do agency/minimum wage work?

...that would explain your whinging argument...I'll leave you to it.

a reply to: nonspecific

Given it's been impossible for some time to get unemployment benefit without obeying all kinds of rules that are literally impossible to obey, it doesn't even exist anyway.

Even before that all happened, it's a complete myth that anyone can live off that a week. If anyone stayed on it purposely, then they must have had some other income from elsewhere too, or they must have had a room in some house they didn't have to pay for.

If you're jealous (not you personally, in general) of someone who only has a room and about 60 quid a week or whatever (whooo less than a tenner a day, that wouldn't buy a drink and a junk food in most places), then what is stopping you from losing your job and copying them then?

If people think it's such an easy thing to be on benefits, then why don't you go on them then?

a reply to: nonspecific

I'd make JSA 12 months max, then GP confirmed sick for those who are or soup kitchens.

Plenty of work out there, as my EU national friends prove easily...lazy British mates should get a #ing job!

a reply to: visitors

So given your stance on this I can only assume that you do not buy any products that are made in the kind of environment that exploits people in the way you describe.

No pasties for you sir, or any of the other things manufactured utilising low quality workers on low wages via agencies who organise the work.

Because if you do then your argument becomes invalid.

a reply to: grainofsand

You're obviously not a real person posting. You have manufactured opinions that sound like they're drawn up by false media distraction 'debates'.

And ironically I obviously care way more about this country, and this planet obviously, than you do. Given you think people should just be churned out to fill pointless jobs to keep a pointless waster system going.

Where is your frozen pasty job? Nowhere near where I live is it. Are you suggesting it is possible to move to another area entirely to take a job that won't even pay the rent for the place?

originally posted by: visitors
You're obviously not a real person posting. You have manufactured opinions that sound like they're drawn up by false media distraction 'debates'.

Lol, nope, just a regular human with opinions.

And ironically I obviously care way more about this country, and this planet obviously, than you do. Given you think people should just be churned out to fill pointless jobs to keep a pointless waster system going.

Lol, all your imagination and/or invention. Lame.

Where is your frozen pasty job? Nowhere near where I live is it. Are you suggesting it is possible to move to another area entirely to take a job that won't even pay the rent for the place?

Be a victim if you like.
I bet there are many many EU nationals working in your town while you sit on your arse on welfare benefits lol

a reply to: nonspecific

"So given your stance on this I can only assume that you do not buy any products that are made in the kind of environment that exploits people in the way you describe.

No pasties for you sir, or any of the other things manufactured utilising low quality workers on low wages via agencies who organise the work.

Because if you do then your argument becomes invalid.
"

I try my best not to. Sometimes it's impossible, like for example the only way I can get recycled bathroom paper is to buy it from a pound shop (which indirectly supports a lot of dodgy things). As far as I am able, I ensure my purchases only support the types of production that are the least harmful. Now and again I can't be sure what I'm buying, in terms of where it is from and what conditions the workers that made it had, if it is something working towards a sustainable economy or not, and so forth.

If I was richer, then obviously I'd have way more choices of what I could buy, so then it's much easier to only support the properly done things.
If you're poor you're stuck with whatever shops are in the town you live in pretty much.

I don't really have time for people that don't at least try to only support what is right. Most of us are stuck being consumers, we have to buy everything we need. So we should make the effort to support what's right. And at the least ensure we know how things are actually made and the true impact they have on the world.
Every little helps, and equally every little hinders. The smallest grain of sand makes a difference.

originally posted by: visitors
a reply to: nonspecific

"So given your stance on this I can only assume that you do not buy any products that are made in the kind of environment that exploits people in the way you describe.

No pasties for you sir, or any of the other things manufactured utilising low quality workers on low wages via agencies who organise the work.

Because if you do then your argument becomes invalid.
"

I try my best not to. Sometimes it's impossible, like for example the only way I can get recycled bathroom paper is to buy it from a pound shop (which indirectly supports a lot of dodgy things). As far as I am able, I ensure my purchases only support the types of production that are the least harmful. Now and again I can't be sure what I'm buying, in terms of where it is from and what conditions the workers that made it had, if it is something working towards a sustainable economy or not, and so forth.

If I was richer, then obviously I'd have way more choices of what I could buy, so then it's much easier to only support the properly done things.
If you're poor you're stuck with whatever shops are in the town you live in pretty much.

I don't really have time for people that don't at least try to only support what is right. Most of us are stuck being consumers, we have to buy everything we need. So we should make the effort to support what's right. And at the least ensure we know how things are actually made and the true impact they have on the world.
Every little helps, and equally every little hinders. The smallest grain of sand makes a difference.

So you are by your own admission buying things that are made by companies that have business policies that you object to and refuse to work for because they pay low wages because you are out of work?

I have no further interest with conversing with you on this matter as your duality on the subject is likely to give me a nose bleed.

originally posted by: visitorsThe smallest grain of sand makes a difference.

Absolutely