UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: Painterz
I'm yet to hear a good argument for 'out' that doesn't ultimately boil down to a false belief or a fear of evil immigrants.

Whereas 'in' can make good arguments about EU subsidies, EU employment law protections, EU court of human rights protections, the massive importance of free trade, open borders, and not to mention 2 million brits who live in Europe who will wind up getting kicked out.

For anyone in the South of England (from the Home Counties down to the South Coast), that is the one and only major issue. Every city outside of London and on the South Coast is facing an annual growth of 6000 homes a year because of the people moving out from London because they have been "priced out". Then hospitals, schools and GP's are overloaded with patients. Roads are being clogged up with traffic at rush-hour. Trains are just as crowded. Sometimes train stations have to block passengers from getting into stations because of the overcrowding, even though they have paid for £6000 season tickets. Other times, the trains just skip stations to keep to their timetable. London is close to running out of brownfield sites to build new homes. The majority of the homeless in London are from Romania and Bulgaria. Over 86,000 parents didn't get their first choice of school because of the rapidly growing population.

a reply to: stormcell

It has only got worse for this Government and they are hiding the true figures of E.U citizens, currently resident within the U.K.

All this free movement around the E.U is ridiculous in this age of 'war on terror'. Refugees will become citizens and they will be free to roam around the E.U at will once they become citizens of wherever they can, within the E.U.

But it's decisions by unelected officials, living the high life at our expense, that grates even deeper. They have all pledged support to the 'Remain' camp, surprise, sur effing prise,

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Painterz
I'm yet to hear a good argument for 'out' that doesn't ultimately boil down to a false belief or a fear of evil immigrants.

Whereas 'in' can make good arguments about EU subsidies, EU employment law protections, EU court of human rights protections, the massive importance of free trade, open borders, and not to mention 2 million brits who live in Europe who will wind up getting kicked out.

For anyone in the South of England (from the Home Counties down to the South Coast), that is the one and only major issue. Every city outside of London and on the South Coast is facing an annual growth of 6000 homes a year because of the people moving out from London because they have been "priced out". Then hospitals, schools and GP's are overloaded with patients. Roads are being clogged up with traffic at rush-hour. Trains are just as crowded. Sometimes train stations have to block passengers from getting into stations because of the overcrowding, even though they have paid for £6000 season tickets. Other times, the trains just skip stations to keep to their timetable. London is close to running out of brownfield sites to build new homes. The majority of the homeless in London are from Romania and Bulgaria. Over 86,000 parents didn't get their first choice of school because of the rapidly growing population.

Very good points! Its the same in other parts of the UK also.

originally posted by: Painterz

OOppp's missed this post!!

I'm yet to hear a good argument for 'out' that doesn't ultimately boil down to a false belief or a fear of evil immigrants.

I think you're a bit over the top in that statement ... Immigrants are an issue but I

have never heard people say 'evil immigrants' although a am sure there are many

who are evil.


Now there IS a case for too many we do not have the infrastructure, housing,

schools, and the NHS is unable to cope. After all two in a double bed .... easy. Four

in the same double bed.... squashed, uncomfortable and only just

manageable.

More than that impossible. You can use that analogy on the immigrant situation.

There are the equivalent of towns in the camps, are they to be unleashed into

already full town ships?

Whereas 'in' can make good arguments about EU subsidies

LOL!! I'll give you an analogy for that .... Work all week for your wages,

then hand them over to your next door neighbour, who will then take out how

much he thinks is suitable for you to have. LOL! You would be happy

with that?

Why get *subsidies* when you can spend it all in the way you want to its your

money in the first place anyway.

EU employment law protections,

We had our own employment laws tailored to our own needs before the EU

interfered trying to cover the needs of over 20 countries of very different

cultures and economies

One thing the EU has taught us is that *one size doesn't fit all*

EU court of human rights protections

Yes ... one of the reasons we are unable to deport or send back criminals,

rapists and hate preaching Imams. The country would be to quote David Cameron

*safer and stronger* without them!!

the massive importance of free trade, open borders

( How I miss the puzzle emo.)

Remind me .... did we not trade or travel before the EU?

Oh we needed a passport, surely that's no hardship to keep our borders and

country again in David Cameron's words *safer and stronger*

and not to mention 2 million brits who live in Europe who will wind up getting kicked out.

Why? would they be kicked out ... They are all paying their way and adding

to the economy of the country they are in.

Some of the 'older' ones are spending their British pensions in these

other European country's again adding to that other country's economy.

The EU will only ever work if all member states are equal in Social Benefits, Education, Health Service etc. having countries within a union of the "have's and have nots" will only end in tears.

At the end of the day, the British populace only ever voted for the "Common Market" within the EU and that's exactly where it should have ended. The political power within the EU has never been sanctioned by any Brit, and IMHO every government since the seventies have committed treason by giving so much sovereign rights up without a referendum. It's for this reason I'm voting out including the fact that the bankers at the ECB have diplomatic immunity/passports.

originally posted by: flammadraco
The EU will only ever work if all member states are equal in Social Benefits, Education, Health Service etc. having countries within a union of the "have's and have nots" will only end in tears.

We don't even get that sort of parity within same country's? Even within

individual country's you have the *haves* and the *have nots* But that is easier to

deal with in similar cultures and similarly educated peoples.


What gets me is that there seems to be groups (probably on the young side) of

people who seem to not understand the UK existed and very successfully before

there ever was a EU

i,m for out but it won,t happen cause like scottish referendum when it comes down to it people will go for what they think is the safe option and that is don,t change anything.

the polls were going for independence until that day arrived then people thought oh wait a min this could go balls up so i,ll just stay where i am, hence scotland still part of uk.

originally posted by: flammadraco
The EU will only ever work if all member states are equal in Social Benefits, Education, Health Service etc. having countries within a union of the "have's and have nots" will only end in tears.

At the end of the day, the British populace only ever voted for the "Common Market" within the EU and that's exactly where it should have ended. The political power within the EU has never been sanctioned by any Brit, and IMHO every government since the seventies have committed treason by giving so much sovereign rights up without a referendum. It's for this reason I'm voting out including the fact that the bankers at the ECB have diplomatic immunity/passports.

Concur! Has iterated previously, GDP's, industries, populations, debts, etc etc are all so different among members of the EU club. It can never function properly never mind how much the central bank tries to compensate etc. Its a flawed model! And like any poorly balanced ship, it will eventually sink and many of those on board will sink with it!!! If we get OUT now then we have time to properly insulate the UK from the impact of an EU club collapse!

originally posted by: sparky31
i,m for out but it won,t happen cause like Scottish referendum when it comes down to it people will go for what they think is the safe option and that is don,t change anything.

the polls were going for independence until that day arrived then people thought oh wait a min this could go balls up so i,ll just stay where i am, hence Scotland still part of uk.

You could be right but I think this situation is somewhat different because we are not talking about a part of the UK breaking away here but the UK severing itself from an EU club that has failed and will continue to do so because it operates on a flawed model. Also note that the rest of the UK isn't drowning in folk moving from Scotland to England, Wales and Ireland and visa versa! So Scotland remaining part of the UK are not threatened by anything like the UK is REMAINING in the EU!

originally posted by: flammadraco
The EU will only ever work if all member states are equal in Social Benefits, Education, Health Service etc. having countries within a union of the "have's and have nots" will only end in tears.

At the end of the day, the British populace only ever voted for the "Common Market" within the EU and that's exactly where it should have ended. The political power within the EU has never been sanctioned by any Brit, and IMHO every government since the seventies have committed treason by giving so much sovereign rights up without a referendum. It's for this reason I'm voting out including the fact that the bankers at the ECB have diplomatic immunity/passports.

Another very good point and reason for bailing OUT before it gets too late!

The REMAIN campaign is just red herrings!!

originally posted by: sparky31
i,m for out but it won,t happen cause like scottish referendum when it comes down to it people will go for what they think is the safe option and that is don,t change anything.

the polls were going for independence until that day arrived then people thought oh wait a min this could go balls up so i,ll just stay where i am, hence scotland still part of uk.

Whilst I agree with what you say .... I have always looked upon the UK at best

as a family, perhaps a dysfunctional family? never the less family. I have never

been able to understand the angst of the Scots hold against the Brits, because

that's the way it looks coming more from the Scots than the Brits.


Now the EU is NOT like family they are a miss match of many cultures

and differences being crammed together unsuccessfully trying to *look* like a

family.


The UK has always been a forward looking modern family, strong together, with

out the need of being pulled down by a family of un progressive countries, as

apart from half dozen in the EU the majority are economically, structurally

industrially, unprogressively, militarily, socially far behind us. In short we have

nothing in common with them


I urge all the UK family to come together and vote *OUT* so that we can again be

the innovative, high flyers we were.... and can be again OUT OF THE EU

I wasn't aware of this thread. I'm glad that there was a reminder thread created for those of us who missed this the first time.

I'm an American citizen so I'm not eligible to vote. But my vote would be to stay IN the EU.

I'll be honest in saying that I'm really not too familiar with all of the nuances of this situation. My belief is that UK membership is essential to the future of the European Union. The EU is one of the United States biggest trading partners and the failure of that alliance would not be advantageous to us.

-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

‘If letting foreign countries impose laws on you, levy taxes on you and spend your money is such a good idea,’ ‘why doesn’t the U.S. create an American Union so Mexico can have common borders with the U.S., Cuba can spend U.S. tax on itself and Brazil can impose laws on the U.S. that the U.S. doesn’t want?

Author unknown.

That's exactly what is happening with the UK at the moment and not one British Citizen agreed to any of it other than a "Trade Agreement" made in the seventies!!

originally posted by: DexterRiley
I wasn't aware of this thread. I'm glad that there was a reminder thread created for those of us who missed this the first time.
I'm an American citizen so I'm not eligible to vote. But my vote would be to stay IN the EU.
I'll be honest in saying that I'm really not too familiar with all of the nuances of this situation. My belief is that UK membership is essential to the future of the European Union.

As much as you believe that the UK membership is essential to the future of

the EU. The EU is not essential to the success of the UK.

The UK is the second largest contributor to the EU budget, and has virtually

no influence.

The UK would benefit from spending the vast amount of money that they pay

into the EU coffers on their own NHS, infurstructure and people.

The EU is a non democratic, bloated, money guzzling organisation that

has never had an audit on its affairs.

The current problem of immigrants and refugee camps, and no borders is in

largely due to the EU policies.

The EU infringes on the laws of the UK so they are unable to deport or return

immigrant criminals and hate preachers.

The UK is more than capable of negotiating its own trade deals.

And as I have been known to say many, many, many times ....

THERE WAS A LIFE IN THE UK BEFORE THE EU.

The UK does not need the binding and red tape of the EU to survive!!

the EU is one of the United States biggest trading partners and the failure of that alliance would
not be advantageous to us.

There's a good chance that's probably down to the UK anyway! Do you mean

to tell me that the USA would refuse to trade with the UK as sole agents if it

was to their own benefit

a reply to: DexterRiley

The problem with the forthcoming referendum for the UK is that no one under the

age of about 60 can appreciate the unacceptable and drastic changes that Britain

has been through since they joined the 'common market' in the 1970's

please note

*common market* and NOT the 'European Union' of ever closer intergration.


They have not experienced the UK as a truly independent and successful country.


Our small island is over populated, all aspects of services and infrastructure are at

breaking point ... and we are being bled dry by Brussels.

We are not being given a true picture of the immigration situation in the UK. If I was head of LEAVE I would be doing everything in my power to get the figures of how many have applied for NI numbers.

And on the illegals here in this Country well that is just frightening. My friend lives in Glasgow, Scotland and was horrified at the weekend when she saw around 30 men climb out of the back of a lorry in broad daylight. When she contacted Police she said they werent interested. Said it would be impossible to catch them as they would be long gone! Imagine how often each and every day this is happening all over the UK and the Government have the nerve to say our borders are controlled!a reply to: eletheia

originally posted by: anxiouswens
We are not being given a true picture of the immigration situation in the UK. If I was head of LEAVE I would be doing everything in my power to get the figures of how many have applied for NI numbers.

And on the illegals here in this Country well that is just frightening. My friend lives in Glasgow, Scotland and was horrified at the weekend when she saw around 30 men climb out of the back of a lorry in broad daylight. When she contacted Police she said they werent interested. Said it would be impossible to catch them as they would be long gone! Imagine how often each and every day this is happening all over the UK and the Government have the nerve to say our borders are controlled!a reply to: eletheia

Ive seen this for myself and I am also aware that there are hundreds in my town who hang around in groups in and around the town centre. Its a joke. The problem is massive and those that claim the figures they do don't see or care about of any of this because they don't hang around their streets and within their electric fences!!

Message from the Vote Leave:

British politicians have misled us about the EU for years.

In 1975, membership was supposedly about being in a common market, but now EU politicians talk about the EU being an Empire. We were told that we would retain control of our borders. We were told that our rebate was safe. We were told that we would not have to take part in euro bailouts.
But none of this was true. We are now being told by David Cameron that he has got a great new deal on the EU. Voters should not trust him.

Many people are still undecided which way to vote - they need to know the facts about the EU's broken promises.

We must not get conned again.

In my town there are many African young men everywhere suddenly, everyone is talking about it. It stands out a mile because it is a predominantly white/Indian town.
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: anxiouswens
In my town there are many African young men everywhere suddenly, everyone is talking about it. It stands out a mile because it is a predominantly white/Indian town.
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

This government is hiding the real number of immigrants (illegal, refugee and EU etc) simply because if they told the truth they know that would tip the scales in favour of a BREXIT for sure!

People have to take a good look and think about what they saw and experienced over the last 10 years and if they are honest should vote OUT! Otherwise they are choosing to ignore the true reality of the situation and it will bite them later!