UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: 83Liberty
I hate all this talk about Scotland leaving the UK if we vote to Leave the EU. Scotland will have another vote regardless if we Stay or Leave the EU and if the majority of Scottish people want to leave the UK, then they should be allowed that choice.

Agreed it is their choice alone, but if they do one from the UK I won't shed any tears, it certainly won't affect my life in any noticeable way.
I hope they do go to be fair...whinging that everything wrong in Scotland is the fault of England all the time, it would be funny hearing them whinging that everything wrong in Scotland is the fault of the EU.

GREXIT BACK ON THE AGENDA AGAIN AS ECONOMY UNRAVELS


We all know how Greece has been screwed over by the EU ... and now the

European Finance Ministers will once again deliberate over how to treat

Greece's ongoing debt crisis this week this, despite the the country

desperately grappling with the refugees pouring across its borders.

www.hitc.com...

Now why would any one want the UK to be a member of a 'club' like that

Another article by Brendan O’Neill. He has really impressed me over the last couple of years. He cuts through bs and shows things as they truly are in my opinion. He spoke to the Brexit Society at Cambridge University at the beginning of March. This man needs to be leading the Brexit campaign.

He states that EU and Europe are being used interchangeably with even the BBC refusing to clarify the distinction. Being anti-EU is not the same as being anti-European and it is being used as a weapon to call Brexiters 'Europhobic'.

It speaks to one of the worst aspects of the debate about the EU: the conflation of the Brussels-based oligarchy with the continent of Europe; the mixing-up of the small, unaccountable cliques who peer down at Europe from their air-conditioned towers in Brussels with Europe itself.

The Stay campaign’s habit of conflating ‘Europe’ and ‘the EU’ means that those who are anti-EU can be easily depicted as anti-Europe, as xenophobic or nationalistic. These people’s political outlook — their dislike of the way Brussels can impose its writ on nation states — is reduced to a prejudiced outlook, a simple case of being anti-Europe. Their politics is pathologised, turned from opposition to a political system into opposition to a whole continent and its cultures and peoples.

This is why we so often see the term Europhobic. This word explicitly pathologises people’s dislike of the EU. It treats it almost as a mental illness: a phobia is an irrational fear.

This week, a writer for New Europe magazine listed ‘Europhobia’ alongside ‘xenophobia, nationalism, Islamophobia and racism’, as values that are ‘alien to our postwar European culture’.

See how casually criticism of the EU, opposition to the Brussels oligarchy, is reduced to a phobia, an ism, something which goes against the ideals of Europe itself.

We must challenge the cynical conflation of ‘Europe’ and ‘the EU’, and we must challenge the pathologisation of Brussels’ critics. Because, to my mind, the EU and Europe are not even remotely the same thing.

My argument for getting out of the EU is not a Little Englander one. It’s not because I think Britain is the best country in this continent. It’s not because I love the pound or the Queen. It’s because the EU is detrimental to the whole of Europe, and particularly to two incredibly important values that European peoples have in various ways been fighting for for hundreds of years: democracy and liberty. The EU is anti-democratic and illiberal.

Well worth reading if you have the time.

For Europe, against the EU

originally posted by: eletheia

Just want to put something out there ....

A few years ago Greece was in deep financial trouble and had to
take on the very punitive terms given them by the EU. Then came
the rumours that Greece was about to default its debt.

What happened next was the immigration crisis in Europe, and
money is being thrown at Greece and Turkey who as you all
know has been trying to get into the haloed club of the EU. for a
long time.

Mrs Merkel who somewhat instigated the whole situation when
she openly invited them all in, seems to have lost her voice and
is now openly admitting that she may have been a little hasty.

This situation could well have been deliberately instigated ... for
the resolution to be >>>>

# Greece gets its debt written off...

# UK leaves the EU ...

# And Turkey gets the place of the UK at the table ...

SORTED!!!

That is entirely possible. And I dont think they have any choice but to do some writing off!

originally posted by: Morrad
Another article by Brendan O’Neill. He has really impressed me over the last couple of years. He cuts through bs and shows things as they truly are in my opinion. He spoke to the Brexit Society at Cambridge University at the beginning of March. This man needs to be leading the Brexit campaign.

He states that EU and Europe are being used interchangeably with even the BBC refusing to clarify the distinction. Being anti-EU is not the same as being anti-European and it is being used as a weapon to call Brexiters 'Europhobic'.

It speaks to one of the worst aspects of the debate about the EU: the conflation of the Brussels-based oligarchy with the continent of Europe; the mixing-up of the small, unaccountable cliques who peer down at Europe from their air-conditioned towers in Brussels with Europe itself.

The Stay campaign’s habit of conflating ‘Europe’ and ‘the EU’ means that those who are anti-EU can be easily depicted as anti-Europe, as xenophobic or nationalistic. These people’s political outlook — their dislike of the way Brussels can impose its writ on nation states — is reduced to a prejudiced outlook, a simple case of being anti-Europe. Their politics is pathologised, turned from opposition to a political system into opposition to a whole continent and its cultures and peoples.

This is why we so often see the term Europhobic. This word explicitly pathologises people’s dislike of the EU. It treats it almost as a mental illness: a phobia is an irrational fear.

This week, a writer for New Europe magazine listed ‘Europhobia’ alongside ‘xenophobia, nationalism, Islamophobia and racism’, as values that are ‘alien to our postwar European culture’.

See how casually criticism of the EU, opposition to the Brussels oligarchy, is reduced to a phobia, an ism, something which goes against the ideals of Europe itself.

We must challenge the cynical conflation of ‘Europe’ and ‘the EU’, and we must challenge the pathologisation of Brussels’ critics. Because, to my mind, the EU and Europe are not even remotely the same thing.

My argument for getting out of the EU is not a Little Englander one. It’s not because I think Britain is the best country in this continent. It’s not because I love the pound or the Queen. It’s because the EU is detrimental to the whole of Europe, and particularly to two incredibly important values that European peoples have in various ways been fighting for for hundreds of years: democracy and liberty. The EU is anti-democratic and illiberal.

Well worth reading if you have the time.

For Europe, against the EU

Its a good article! The plot thickens!

The U turn this week of the EU and its long held policies regarding

Turkey shows its weak underbelly.

The Schengen zone, long held up as the flagship of Europe is

crumbling ..

Even saintly Mother Teresa Merkel now sees it for what it

is, an exodus of biblical proportions.

This has given Turkey's President Erdogan the lever he requires to

further his agenda.

It doesn't take a blind man to see that the EU is falling apart,

even without the UK exit.

We need to be OUT NOW before we are embroiled any further

in the unravelling mess that is the EU.


leave.eu...

This agreement with Turkey is madness. I am seriously concerned as to what is going to happen to this country if we vote to remain in. Anyone with children (the futue generation) will surely vote Leave if only for their children's sakes otherwise we are finished. I will break my heart if we vote Remain, I will also question the vote because I seriously havent spoken ti anyone who wants to remain.a reply to: eletheia

The fact that the queen reportedly wants out is yet another reason that makes me want to stay.

originally posted by: blupblup
The fact that the queen reportedly wants out is yet another reason that makes me want to stay.

The very thought of a 'Sun' reporter interviewing the Queen at 'Buck House'

makes it entirely improbable.

She is apolitical and merely a figurehead.

originally posted by: blupblup
The fact that the queen reportedly wants out is yet another reason that makes me want to stay.

This is another thing that annoys me. You hear it all the time in left wing media outlets. "So and so wants to Leave so that makes me want to Stay". How pathetic.

Why would you vote one way based on which way someone else will vote? It doesn't make any sense to me. Surely people should be voting based on the pro's and con's of the EU, not personalities.

a reply to: blupblup

Bear in mind that that story is concocted by a newspaper owned by Rupert Murdoch, doesn't contain a single actual named source and has been publicly contested by the monarchy.

In other words, its BS. Its Murdoch trying to influence public perception. Again.

a reply to: neformore

Agreed, I thought BS as soon as I heard it last night.
...you won't hear me complaining if Murdoch does swing the minds of stupid Sun reading voters out there though, you know, the ones who believe anything if it is in their particular rag.

Yep, I'd take the assistance of Satan in this one, unashamedly

Although I remain firmly in the Brexit camp, there is one thing that worries me. I don't think it will be plain sailing and here's why. If we do leave, we will become the nemesis of Brussel's Elite , in the sense that when (not if) we start to thrive outside the EU, other EU countries will potentially follow us. They will do anything in their power to make us fail in my opinion, not solely revenge but to deter other countries from doing the same thing. The more I read about Brussels's Elite, the more I believe they are capable of doing this.

a reply to: Morrad

Oh I imagine a leave vote will attract the wrath of the EU power brokers for sure.
Let the revolution begin I say...I'd rather chance freedom and fail than not have the balls to try.

I ran away as a 16 year old though and spent months sleeping on the streets until I rebuilt my life, maybe I don't fear the risk of losing the odd shiny thing like many do in society. You know, those bleating about being skint but with a flat screen on the wall and an iPhone in pocket lol

originally posted by: Morrad
Although I remain firmly in the Brexit camp, there is one thing that worries me. I don't think it will be plain sailing and here's why. If we do leave, we will become the nemesis of Brussel's Elite , in the sense that when (not if) we start to thrive outside the EU, other EU countries will potentially follow us. They will do anything in their power to make us fail in my opinion, not solely revenge but to deter other countries from doing the same thing. The more I read about Brussels's Elite, the more I believe they are capable of doing this.

It was at first said that it would take up to two years for the separation
of the EU and UK ... if the UK voted to come out.
Then the fear mongering started and said it could be five years, then they
made it really scary and said it could take up to ten years!!

You are right in that it wont be plain sailing, every obstacle will be put in
the way of any smooth transaction and the time it takes will be stretched
out to as long as possible. Brussels will make it difficult, I only wish
we had someone stronger at the helm than David Cameron (who has as much
go in him as a wet lettuce!!)

The EU will use it as a lesson to try and deter any others.

If the IN vote comes off .... its still only a matter of time the EU is already
a white elephant and past its sell by date.

originally posted by: eletheia
I only wish we had someone stronger at the helm than David Cameron (who has as much
go in him as a wet lettuce!!)

Lol, Cameron is well history if we vote leave!
I almost piss myself laughing that the 'remain' crowd are effectively Cameron supporters now as he presented that 'deal' with the EU to the UK populace.

Let the revolution begin

a reply to: grainofsand

Let the revolution begin I say...I'd rather chance freedom and fail than not have the balls to try.

I can't argue with that. I was thinking about the issue since I posted. Any course is better than tyranny.

CameraOn definitely needs to go. He has no idea what democracy is, evident by his actions towards Brexit MPs.

a reply to: eletheia

I am so glad we have paper ballots, unlike the US. There has been a few threads on ATS about ballot rigging over there. I would not put anything past CameraOn.

A leader of non EU member state, Iceland ,Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson warned
larger member states like the UK wield *diminishing power* in institutions
still under the sway of the Franco-German alliance.(NOTE the use of Franco-
German and not EU)

When it comes to the big decisions are made by two and increasingly one country.

His comments come in a week where German chancellor, Angela Merkel has
been accused of bouncing fellow member states into accepting a
controversial scheme with Turkey.

Iceland which has been held up as a model for the UK .... has access to the EU
single market and is free to conduct bilateral trade deals world wide.

Iceland, which is a member of the European Economic Area, along with
Norway and Lichtenstein withdrew its application for EU membership
last year after opening talks in 2009.
Having suffered the world financial crash of 2008 their economy is now
booming with growth set to hit 3.2% of GDP.

Mr Gunnlaugsson who became Iceland's youngest PM in 2013 said Iceland was
ready to open trade talks with Britain in or outside the bloc.

Full story www.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: 83Liberty

a reply to: eletheia

a reply to: neformore


I thought it was fairly obvious my tongue was firmly in my cheek as I said that but apparently not.
Yes.. I would decide the fate of my nation solely on what some doddery old muppet sat on a throne does...


Really.