UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

You are in luck then because in the UK we have an ageing population so the baby boomers out number the younger generation. You in correct in saying that i am younger and have only ever experienced a UK in the EU, however it wasn't all sunshine and roses before the EU either. I know that in the 1970s Britain was no picnic, and I am not saying that the EU has it made more or less so.

But I am happy with the smoking ban (I am smoker), building regulations, work time directives, equality for mothers and fathers entitlement to MAT leave, there are many advantages to remaining in the EU and IMO these outweigh the uncertainty and possible ramifications if we opt out.

I have not said anything about your age. Whatever that is.

Good luck with your decision. But also remember what I said if we REMAIN and then suffer the PAIN which could have been avoided!! Your GUT doesn't think nor does it consider ramifications.

The 70's were full of protests and strikes but they were a very happy time for me growing up. I think fondly back to the time before computers etc, when night after night there were power cuts and we had to sit in candlelight. It was at least exciting and an adventure and it was a time when people still had freedom of speech and felt they could vent their anger by striking and protest and they knew who the politicians were to vent the anger at.

Thess days everyone is scared of offending someone, protests and strikes dont really achieve anything because we dont even know who the people are who are truly governing us!

I cant wait to leave. I dont think by leaving there will be Utopia but at least the people running our Country will have been truly elected by us and therefore wont be able to hide behind excuses and red tape. There will be hope that there can be change for the better and any dark times will at least be an adventure into the unknown with hopefully a brighter future at the end. Vote Leave!

As far as working in other European Countries do you really think that will stop? I worked and lived in Malta before they joined the EU I just had to get a permit. That is what people who work and live here will be able to do. The people who wont be able to stay are the benefit tourists who arent working, which is fine with me!a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

originally posted by: anxiouswens
The 70's were full of protests and strikes but they were a very happy time for me growing up. I think fondly back to the time before computers etc, when night after night there were power cuts and we had to sit in candlelight. It was at least exciting and an adventure and it was a time when people still had freedom of speech and felt they could vent their anger by striking and protest and they knew who the politicians were to vent the anger at.

Thess days everyone is scared of offending someone, protests and strikes dont really achieve anything because we dont even know who the people are who are truly governing us!

I cant wait to leave. I dont think by leaving there will be Utopia but at least the people running our Country will have been truly elected by us and therefore wont be able to hide behind excuses and red tape. There will be hope that there can be change for the better and any dark times will at least be an adventure into the unknown with hopefully a brighter future at the end. Vote Leave!

As far as working in other European Countries do you really think that will stop? I worked and lived in Malta before they joined the EU I just had to get a permit. That is what people who work and live here will be able to do. The people who wont be able to stay are the benefit tourists who arent working, which is fine with me!a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

Fair comment.

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

And I could say the same for if we do opt out, it's swings and roundabouts.

Either way, we shall see. We all have to deal with the outcomes one way or the other.

I just don't like that it is bringing out an already brewing 'Us and them' mentality which to me strikes at the heart of humanity, and I am all for being one, than separate and not sharing/pooling our resources like some spoiled children all shouting like the seagulls from 'Finding Nemo'... 'Mine! Mine! Mine!'

I`m definately for Leave.

There`s so many reasons other than just the migrant issue.

I will try to get back to this thread and contribute more fully, just way too busy today. Just wanted to add my vote for the poll.

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecificI just don't like that it is bringing out an already brewing 'Us and them' mentality which to me strikes at the heart of humanity, and I am all for being one, than separate and not sharing/pooling our resources like some spoiled children all shouting like the seagulls from 'Finding Nemo'... 'Mine! Mine! Mine!'

I agree with what you have said here and it's a shame the debate has dividing people, especially the nasty comments in all the online MSM comment sections.

Saying that though, this debate is kind of about Us vs.Them...

Stay vs. Leave
Establishment vs. The people
Corporations vs. Small business
Communism vs. Democracy
Status quo vs. Revolution

And ultimately..
The United States of Europe vs. Democratic independent nations.

That's the way I see it

a reply to: 83Liberty

I can't help thinking though that we live in a globalised world. Britain is no longer the powerhouse that it once was. We are an insignificant economy from a global perspective. With China, Russia, the US and India being the power house of commodities and global market pricing.

I also listen to farming today, and I have concerns over how it will affect our agriculture and food prices. A lot of British farmers a part of the Arla co-operative that spans EU countries, and British farmers share in the profits of this co-op and it is a big part of their income, and if we come out of the EU will our food prices increase due to the levy on imports that could be established?

British Manufacturing is on it's behind, and coming out of the EU is not going to encourage companies to set up their business here if they don't have free and easy access to the next biggest single market next to China, IMO.

Unfortunately, the saying rings true. No man is an island.

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
a reply to: 83Liberty
I can't help thinking though that we live in a globalised world. Britain is no longer the powerhouse that it once was. We are an insignificant economy from a global perspective. With China, Russia, the US and India being the power house of commodities and global market pricing.

Yes we live in a globalised world and we can't even make our own free trade agreements around the world, it's a disgrace. We are not an insignificant economy, we're the 5th biggest economy in the World.

I also listen to farming today, and I have concerns over how it will affect our agriculture and food prices. A lot of British farmers a part of the Arla co-operative that spans EU countries, and British farmers share in the profits of this co-op and it is a big part of their income, and if we come out of the EU will our food prices increase due to the levy on imports that could be established?

I look on the UK farming forums and it seems a lot of them want out. The big farmers want to stay in because they get to keep their big slice of the EU farming payments.
thefarmingforum.co.uk.../eu-poll-leave-or-remain.106278/

originally posted by: 83Liberty

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
a reply to: 83Liberty
I can't help thinking though that we live in a globalised world. Britain is no longer the powerhouse that it once was. We are an insignificant economy from a global perspective. With China, Russia, the US and India being the power house of commodities and global market pricing.

Yes we live in a globalised world and we can't even make our own free trade agreements around the world, it's a disgrace. We are not an insignificant economy, we're the 5th biggest economy in the World.

I also listen to farming today, and I have concerns over how it will affect our agriculture and food prices. A lot of British farmers a part of the Arla co-operative that spans EU countries, and British farmers share in the profits of this co-op and it is a big part of their income, and if we come out of the EU will our food prices increase due to the levy on imports that could be established?

I look on the UK farming forums and it seems a lot of them want out. The big farmers want to stay in because they get to keep their big slice of the EU farming payments.
thefarmingforum.co.uk.../eu-poll-leave-or-remain.106278/

True. Like I have constantly repeated those that have or benefit from being in the EU wish to REMAIN but that's only 20% of the UK population! Greed of those that already have is the true motive of the REMAIN mob!

a reply to: 83Liberty

How can you say we are significant when the EU is @ $18m, the UK on it's own is behind Germany, on under $3m, but only just after France and Brazil?

GDP Rankings

We are tiny. We have a good rep and people kind of respect us, but we are small.

a reply to: mamabethLet me give you a small insight why your people think your're wrong.
Fedex has just payed quite a few millions to buy a British based company. Why? To get a foothold into Europe, ie, an open Europe not an isolated Britain.
Now, without any silly statements like"we pay more than the others", why is it that only Britain wants to leave the EU?
If it's that bad why doesn't France or Holland want to leave?
There is only one overiding reason the Conservatives want us out of the EU and that is because the majority of countries in the Eu are Socialist or have Socialist leanings and they hate that with a vengeance. Why should Socialist countries have any of our money when we can come out then we can pocket it?
Another thing that you have to think about is why has Cameron been to the EU to "fight" for our rights? We have MEPs (that's members of the European parliament) that's supposed to be fighting for our rights since we've been in the EU?
Have any of you here ever seen your MEP during this con trick on TV or in the papers? Do you actually know who your MEP is? Something smells major wrong that we are being played to come out.
Sorry if this in any way distracts from your post. I'm voting to stay in.

a reply to: crayzeed

Wahoo! Thank you. I completely agree, and thought I was somewhat alone in the sea of 'I'm Out' voters.

Its not just Conservatists who want us out in fact there are many socialists who also want us out, amongst them areLabour MP's although the official line is in and Jeremy Corbyn himself is highly Eurosceptic. A lot of Trade Unionists also dont follow the in crowd and many traditional Labour votersalso want out myself included.

As far as what power our MEP's have in Brussels this is one of the strong arguments for voting out. It is not democratic. The UK is one of the most under represented countries as smaller countries tend to have more clout and more MEPs per population. British MEPs are outvoted on most things.

www.telegraph.co.uk... reply to: crayzeed

a reply to: anxiouswens

Your link doesn't work

Please can you try and post it again?

British MEPs are being routinely defeated in bids to block legislation in the European Parliament, new research shows.

In an overwhelming majority of cases, Britain’s delegates to Brussels are outvoted by their colleagues from other countries.

Between 2009 and 2014, 1936 votes were held in the European Parliament, and 576 of them were opposed by a majority of the UK’s 73 elected representatives.

But of those, 485 were still passed – meaning the view of Britain being outvoted in 86 per cent of cases, according to research by Business for Britain, a Eurosceptic campaign group.

This rises to 98 per cent in votes that cover budgets, and 92 per cent on constitutional and inter-institutional affairs.

British MEPs have been powerless to block include new restrictions on the City of London, including bans on short selling and the so-called “Robin Hood tax” on financial transactions.

The Conservatives failed to block 87 per cent of the motions they opposed, compared to 53 per cent for Labour, 36 per cent for the Liberal Democrats and 95 per cent for Ukip. These figures reflect the willingness of different parties to split for the rest of Europe in the Parliament.

Britain has around ten per cent of the seats in Brussels, and is one of the most underrepresented by head of population, under a system designed to increase the clout of small nations.

There is one MEP for every 880,000 British voters, compared to one for every 70,900 Maltese. The EU average is one MEP for 486,000 voters. Only French voters are more underrepresented.

Business for Britain said David Cameron should secure a veto for the House of Commons against European laws as part of the renegotiation process.

“British MEPs must either toe the line of large pan-european alliances that are committed to further political union or fruitlessly vote against legislation that they are unable to block,” said Robert Oxley, the group’s campaign director.

“Reforms are needed to protect member states from the tyranny of a legislature that their elected representatives have no chance of blocking, even when they unite across party political lines.”

a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

Sorry I cant get link to work so copied article above

a reply to: anxiouswens

Interesting, although the statistics and research do come from a EU Skeptic group, which does makes me skeptical. I would like to see the original research and stats, rather than an article about it to give it a bit more clout.

But interesting that France are also underrepresented in the EU Parliament, if the stats are to be believed, obviously.

If you go on this website businessforbritain.org... there are lots of detailed pdf obne of them is MEP votes and it just goes into more detail with stats etc backing up the piece in the Telegraph. There is quite a lot of interesting reading on the website purely from a business perspective.a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

This is from Guardian a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

www.theguardian.com...

You will get all the stats etc from this website which you have to sign up to a reply to: MrsNonSpecific

www.votewatch.eu...

originally posted by: MrsNonSpecific
I work for a global company, have friends who live in the EU and have a friend who wants to go and live in in Costa Del Sunshine for health reasons in Spain. For these reasons I am for staying IN, as I don't see how opting out will make their lives easier and they may be forced to shelve their plans or return home.

I have a cousin who went out to Spain before the UK went into the
EU and she has been there ever since. I asked her the other day that
seeing that she had been in Spain longer than she was ever in England
did she feel Spanish or English.... She couldn't say!! Lol!! she has no
qualms whether we stay or leave, she doesn't think it will make any
difference to her.

Then I know of a couple of couples who bought apartments out there
and retired there, with friends going out and staying with them for
holidays. As they got older and had various problems with health they
returned to the UK as it was a better alternative for them!
Considering everything is equal in the EU ... Strange how in their
opinion the UK was a better option for them.

A key example of how the EU is a good thing is their robust polices on HSSE, without them horrible things can occur. An example of this happened in Romania. A new owner of a club signed a waiver saying he was responsible for the building, didn't bother keeping up with fire safety inspections and structural w
His club set on fire causing the death 27 people, due to the back handed corrupt nature of dealing with HSSE in businesses. That man is now responsible for the death of these innocent people, because he was more interested in making money. This would never occur in the UK due to the HSSE regulations, most conceived in Brussels, lord knows how many lives these regulations have saved, and prevented cowboys from being negligent.

How come? ...Surely all members are obliged to follow the same
rules? Romania is in the EU, do they have a special dispensation?