UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: johnb
Out and still to meet anybody in person who wants to stay in.

Was undecided but Project Fear quickly made my mind up.

Interesting to see the differing groups people know - i personally only know 1 person who says they will be voting LEAVE (which doesn't actually mean that will be the case!). Everyone else i know is very firmly in the STAY camp, except my wife who annoyingly claims to not care either way!

Project fear must be working on the people you know. All I can suggest is these people possibly lack courage and vision. However intelligent they may be they are (in my view) naive and foolish to think REMAINING in the EU will benefit the UK and the not so wealthy in the longer term. I am personally convinced that LEAVING will to some degree protect this country from mass immigration and the demise of the EU and if we don't LEAVE then there will be a lot of regrets for the STAY voters within 5 to 10 years.

Projecting fear whilst consulting a crystal ball is a recipe for disaster and something to steer well clear of. The future you shape by the decisions you make. The EU is in a mess and its prosperous survival is in question. If you attach your boat to a large sinking ship then your boat will also sink!!

The UK is stronger outside of the EU and therefore better able to manage and mitigate the risks faced by the EU!

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I love this constant reference to the "Stay" campaign as Project Fear. By the same token, does that mean i can refer to the "Leave" campaign as "Project Pie in the Sky" (because they can't offer any guarantees of anything)?

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I love this constant reference to the "Stay" campaign as Project Fear. By the same token, does that mean i can refer to the "Leave" campaign as "Project Pie in the Sky" (because they can't offer any guarantees of anything)?

Apart from the BIGGY. if we are OUT of the EU we cant go down with them! On a very basic level the EU is flawed, because not all nations are equal in terms of population, industry, GDP, debt etc etc and mentality which will eventually result in the collapse of the EU and if you are IN then you are screwed! Being OUT gives the UK time to insulate itself before this eventuality occurs which developing its "OUT of the EU trading model" etc etc.

Wisdom is not something that besets us all and intelligence is insufficient on its own!!

I predict that it will be a disaster in many ways for the UK if we REMAIN! That's my wisdom!

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

In theory that is correct, in practice it would depend heavily on what was imposed on us under the Article 50 negotiations. It doesn't have to be favourable to us and they don't have to give us a say - we gave away that right when we signed up to the Article.

In practice, i don't think it would be as bad as it could be but equally it wouldn't be as favourable as many seem to believe.

originally posted by: Flavian
I love this constant reference to the "Stay" campaign as Project Fear. By the same token, does that mean i can refer to the "Leave" campaign as "Project Pie in the Sky" (because they can't offer any guarantees of anything)?

There are never any guarantees for anything in life.... But

the less the fetters the easier the life.

a reply to: eletheia

If we Leave the EU at least we could make all our own laws and our own decisions which I think is vital in an increasingly unstable World.

By the way, the forth GO (grassroots-out) meeting is being held at the moment in Belfast.
Watch it here if interested...
grassrootsout.co.uk...

originally posted by: 83Liberty
If we Leave the EU at least we could make all our own laws and our own decisions which I think is vital in an increasingly unstable World.

Too true.

If we ever get 'hung out to dry' ... Let it be for a decision we made,

and not for something we had imposed on us.


So lets leave ... regain our *pride* ... and for better or worse make our

own decisions

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
The UK is stronger outside of the EU and therefore better able to manage and mitigate the risks faced by the EU!

Please tell me all about what will (with certainty) be so much better with Britain outside of the EU? I have really been asking, but all I get is akin to "they WILL do X for us - how could they not?" which doesn't give me the certainty I need to vote to leave.

"Project fear" appears to be the leavies visionising about how BAD everything will be if we remain and that there is any certainty at all in their shangri-la scenarios.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

In theory that is correct, in practice it would depend heavily on what was imposed on us under the Article 50 negotiations. It doesn't have to be favourable to us and they don't have to give us a say - we gave away that right when we signed up to the Article.

Those negotiations must also not last for more than two years. There are no requirements for achieving anything within that timeframe. For all we know, the EU could tell us to p* off as they have a rather more important refugee crisis to mind themselves about. Whatever has been negotiated within those two years, if anything, is what will be put into an agreement. As soon as Article 50 is invoked, we will be locked out of any EU meetings pertaining to Article 50 and we won't have that much of a say anymore.

originally posted by: eletheia
If God wanted us to be French he wouldn't have separated us by a channel of water!!!

The Angles immigrated to the UK from France. The Saxons immigrated to the UK from Germany. And before that, there were also a lot of Italian immigrants - the Romans. There are still procedures in Parliament that are conducted in French, and there are still a few laws written in French around.

The French are also buying up land in West Sussex as vineyards to make wine –– how DARE they!?

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: johnb
Out and still to meet anybody in person who wants to stay in.

Was undecided but Project Fear quickly made my mind up.

Interesting to see the differing groups people know - i personally only know 1 person who says they will be voting LEAVE (which doesn't actually mean that will be the case!). Everyone else i know is very firmly in the STAY camp, except my wife who annoyingly claims to not care either way!

My wife wasn't even aware of that there will be a vote, as I found out today.

originally posted by: grainofsand
I guess it is an important issue to many people, hardly surprising considering the lack of control the UK has over the numbers or criteria for immigration to Britain by EU citizens.
Do we really need tens of thousands of unskilled Romanian & Bulgarian labourers?

To put it into perspective, before 2004 you would rarely ever find any UK-produced vegetables in the grocery stores. Nobody was interested in working farming. Whatever was produced was eaten by the farmers and the local communities, and the rest was simply thrown away. Then "unskilled" Eastern European workers, skilled in farming, came to the UK and were willing to work and all of a sudden we were able to buy UK-produced vegetables. Unless you think pizza, KFC and McDonalds are the pinnacle of good quality, I would say yes, we do need tens of thousands of skilled (in their respective fields) Eastern European workers.

Of note is also that the requirements for becoming a construction worker in Poland, allowed to work on construction sites, are quire a bit higher than in the UK.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
The UK has everything to gain from LEAVING and nothing to lose

Such as what, and how?

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I love this constant reference to the "Stay" campaign as Project Fear. By the same token, does that mean i can refer to the "Leave" campaign as "Project Pie in the Sky" (because they can't offer any guarantees of anything)?

what i find recently, anytime someone from stay points out a fact, the leave campaign claim its project fear and, follow it up with something, fearful.

stay: 'with the steel works now shut, we have to import steel, leaving the EU would drive the price up.'
leave: 'it should be fine and, 75 million turks can come.'

stay: 'the yearly amount paid to be an EU member is offset by profits from the EU and, having a vote. leaving would leave us like switzerland and norway, still paying to trade in the EU but having no vote.'
leave: 'it should be fine, half a billion migrants can come.'

originally posted by: stinkelbaum


stay: 'the yearly amount paid to be an EU member is offset by profits from the EU and, having a vote. leaving would leave us like switzerland and norway, still paying to trade in the EU but having no vote.'
leave: 'it should be fine, half a billion migrants can come.'

Did you miss this?

Now the Swiss withdraw their bid to join the EU.

The country's National Council backed a motion to retract the 24 year old

bid to join the EU.

www.dailymail.co.uk... migration.html

originally posted by: moniker
originally posted by: eletheia
If God wanted us to be French he wouldn't have separated us by a channel of water!!!

The Angles immigrated to the UK from France. The Saxons immigrated to the UK from Germany. And before that, there were also a lot of Italian immigrants - the Romans. There are still procedures in Parliament that are conducted in French, and there are still a few laws written in French around.

Do you not recognise *tongue in cheek*?

Between 1500 and 1600 my own ancestors (Hugonots) left France

for England. However there's not much French in me now


That's probably what successful intergration is?... slowly over time

Unlike the hoard's now descending on Europe ?

I understood that it was to be a FREE vote of *in* or *out* but it

seems there are more dirty tricks afoot.


BBC boss reportedly suspended over his personal opinions

www.bbc.co.uk...

Seems the *in* lobby may be getting somewhat tetchy

originally posted by: moniker

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
The UK has everything to gain from LEAVING and nothing to lose

Such as what, and how?

Its freedom from the club and free to define and implement its own laws and ultimately its own fate and destiny. Oh and apart from many other things, less immigrants and more housing, school places, smaller NHS ques, more jobs, safer streets and safer daughters, less migrant mafias and crime for Brits. Do I need to go on or has common sense kicked in. You should walk around some carboots these days or pop into my town centre, its like being in another country. They hang around in gangs. Its intimidating for ordinary folk. All the EU immigrants are swanning around like vagrants, drinking etc (some illegal). Everybody speaks another EU language. Its already out of control.

originally posted by: stinkelbaum

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

I love this constant reference to the "Stay" campaign as Project Fear. By the same token, does that mean i can refer to the "Leave" campaign as "Project Pie in the Sky" (because they can't offer any guarantees of anything)?

what i find recently, anytime someone from stay points out a fact, the leave campaign claim its project fear and, follow it up with something, fearful.

stay: 'with the steel works now shut, we have to import steel, leaving the EU would drive the price up.'
leave: 'it should be fine and, 75 million turks can come.'

stay: 'the yearly amount paid to be an EU member is offset by profits from the EU and, having a vote. leaving would leave us like switzerland and norway, still paying to trade in the EU but having no vote.'
leave: 'it should be fine, half a billion migrants can come.'

Are kidding "spin" isn't fact. The REMAIN mob can say anything they like because they have nothing to lose by that because only if we LEAVE can we prove what they say isn't true! This is why you should not trust those that have nothing to lose by fear-mongering. IF we REMAIN its business as usual so we wont know they conned the UK public to REMAIN. Only if we LEAVE will the UK public find out the truth and realise the benefits!

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
stay: 'with the steel works now shut, we have to import steel, leaving the EU would drive the price up.'
leave: 'it should be fine.
'

Sometimes things get passed their 'sell by date' and things have to be

reviewed and changed? The EU could fall in that bracket?

The long slow death of the British steel industry, may have been

decided in India but it was scripted in Beijing. The Tata group

is owned by the Indian conglomerate has been hit by cheap

Chinese competition.


Chinese producers can sell below cost price as they are fully subsidised

by the Chinese government. The glut of discounted metal has halved

the steel price in the last 12 months.


Ministers insist that they are powerless to hold back the rising tide of

Chinese metal noting that the government is bound by EU. RULES

which prevents the state intervening.


www.theguardian.com...


Maybe its time for us to leave the outdated EU behind .... and deal

with India and China as Great Britain.