UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

a reply to: eletheia

On top of which the "FEAR FACTOR" blatently being peddled, the biblical doom that started out as two years in the wilderness, is now being peddled as TEN YEARS in the wilderness.

I took a curious glance at different news sources this morning and the government Bremainian doom porn agenda is in full swing. It is so insulting to people who have intelligence. WE WANT FACTS NOT HYPERBOLE.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
Well if events at Macedonia and Calais today are anything to go by I think there are going to be real problems in Europe before June 23rd. I bet Cameron has been cursing migrants today for kicking off far too soon. I think he chose June thinking things wouldn't start hotting up until after June. With a bit of luck EU will start disintegrate before the referendum or at least it will make the undecided vote to leave a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

If people use their imagination and common sense enough they will release that if we REMAIN in the EU then in 5 to 10 years after a further 5 to 10m migrants have found their way into the UK there is likely to be issues of this sort on a bigger scale inside the UK on our streets. Like I have iterated before the more migrants the more uncertainty and likely hood that there will be problems on UK streets and less safety for our children and daughters. Crime will become more of a problem also. Just take a good look at the situations in Macedonia, Calais and Dunkirk.

The migrants don't necessarily have the same morals, scruples and respect for people and their neighbours. BE WARNED! And this is not scaremongering but bloody obvious!

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite


If people use their imagination and common sense enough they will release that if we REMAIN in the EU then in 5 to 10 years after a further 5 to 10m migrants have found their way into the UK there is likely to be issues of this sort on a bigger scale inside the UK on our streets.

When it reaches this stage The UK will be no more. It will be a satellite nation

of the Middle East.

Like I have iterated before the more migrants the more uncertainty and likely hood that there will be problems on UK streets and less safety for our children and daughters. Crime will become more of a problem also. Just take a good look at the situations in Macedonia, Calais and Dunkirk.

We have enough 'home grown' entitlement citizens without importing

others.


I have begun to think somewhere along the line that *Dick Whittington*

has become the obligatory bed time reading for children from these

other countries.


Someone needs to tell them that the streets of London are not paved

with gold.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite


If people use their imagination and common sense enough they will release that if we REMAIN in the EU then in 5 to 10 years after a further 5 to 10m migrants have found their way into the UK there is likely to be issues of this sort on a bigger scale inside the UK on our streets.

When it reaches this stage The UK will be no more. It will be a satellite nation

of the Middle East.

Like I have iterated before the more migrants the more uncertainty and likely hood that there will be problems on UK streets and less safety for our children and daughters. Crime will become more of a problem also. Just take a good look at the situations in Macedonia, Calais and Dunkirk.

We have enough 'home grown' entitlement citizens without importing

others.


I have begun to think somewhere along the line that *Dick Whittington*

has become the obligatory bed time reading for children from these

other countries.


Someone needs to tell them that the streets of London are not paved

with gold.

Should they be told not to come because they are not needed or welcome. We want hospital staff, nurses and doctors born and trained in the UK. We want social housing for those who cannot afford to buy a home of their own. We want school places for our children at the nearest schools to their homes. We want jobs for those who want to work. We want our streets to be safe for old people and our children. We want to be able to walk the streets of our town centre's and feel comfortable and not after feel intimidated by groups speaking foreign languages. We want all illegals removing from the UK and those who finish their work here to be sent home. We want our country back for the British people and all laws defined and implemented in the UK. Its not nice when one feels like a foreigner in ones own country!

I find it interesting how most debates focus on migrants.

originally posted by: and14263
I find it interesting how most debates focus on migrants.

I guess it is an important issue to many people, hardly surprising considering the lack of control the UK has over the numbers or criteria for immigration to Britain by EU citizens.
Do we really need tens of thousands of unskilled Romanian & Bulgarian labourers? Our building sites certainly don't, and job prices have crashed since the piss poor parts of the EU gained access to the UK.

10 men to a house share, each working for fifty quid a day and sending money back to their homelands, nope that didn't help the UK construction industry much. It just dragged wages down for the Brits who can't compete, because we generally don't want to sleep in bunk beds and/or aspire to saving for a house in Britain.

I feel so sorry for 16/17 year old's who used to start at the bottom labouring on building sites...now those opportunities are slimmer when a semi-skilled Romanian labourer will do the same job for £50 cash.

Yes immigration is of course an issue, it is to me, I want a needs based immigration system taking the skills we need.
I absolutely support immigration where the UK can control it.
The UK cannot control EU immigration while it is a member of the EU. The only way the UK can decide who it wishes to live here is as a sovereign nation, and that requires us to vote 'leave' in June.

Of course EU laws having primacy over UK law is a big issue, the £8 Billion (net, after EU grants back) each year for membership is a big issue, but looking at our schools straining with the extra EU children each year, and struggling to pay for multiple translators, it is no surprise that EU immigration is a big issue to many people.

I'm not too keen on David Icke but this is close to the truth

www.davidicke.com...

and this

nofakenews.net...

a reply to: grainofsand

Certainly correct my man. However it's one topic in among hundreds which should be a decider. However the good old British media have already cast their immigration spell on the easily led population.

It just makes the whole debate one track minded and plays into the hands of those who do not wish us to understand the economy.

The damage has been done with regards to immigration. The damage has been done with regards to education. How many people voting really understand politics and economy? Most just read the papers and spout off about what they read.

Me included.

I'll vote out but the real problems aren't whether we are in EU or not. The problems lie in our media and our leaders who will always be in love with power and money.

In ten years time life will be as terrible then as it is now. I wonder what the distraction will be then?

a reply to: and14263

Free movement of people and visa free employment is the key pillar of the EU now alongside the original free trade agreement.

It doesn't surprise me that free movement of people and visa free employment is now a key part of the referendum debate.

It is a massive leave/remain issue since Cameron's crap deal when the EU said we cannot remain and be exempt from the free movement of people/employment agreement.

a reply to: grainofsand

While the democratic deficit is a huge as it is it doesn't matter how we vote. There's a herd of white elephants in the room which keep on multiplying.

I swore I wouldn't get into this debate. I'm not turning my back on you I just don't need this in my life right now.

That said I will get round to sending some SE Asian shenanigans to you when I have a spare half hour. Peace.

a reply to: and14263

Immigration is probably the biggest issue in the minds of the English people. I purposely wrote English people because I believe these concerns are not felt much among the people of Scotland, Wales or North Ireland.

We don't get to see much of a debate on immigration as the right-wing papers usually paint immigrants as nasties, but we all know most of them are good hard working people. While the left-wing papers like to accuse people who have concerns on immigration as racist or xenophobic.

The problem with our immigration policy at the moment is that it has two tiers; one for people living in the EU, and one for the rest of the World. Anyone who lives in an EU country and has a passport can come and move to the UK no questions asked, even if you have nothing to offer or if you are a criminal. While if you are a doctor from India, for example, you have to jump through a load of hoops.

I don't want our country to discriminate on people based on where they live, but rather have a fair points based system that discriminates on what you can offer to the UK. However we of course should continue to accept legitimate refugees and if we had actual control of our border, we could in fact help even more refugees.

The second problem is that the net immigration figures are far far too high and is increasing. With the Tories changing the minimum wage to £9 per hour by 2020, I'm sure even more people would want to come. Our infrastructure just can't cope with these levels so the current UK residents living standards will decline.


So basically my concern is not about the people who come but about the volume of people who come.

originally posted by: 83Liberty
So basically my concern is not about the people who come but about the volume of people who come.

Exactly how I see it, and we must remember when we vote, the EU has already agreed that the UK may not control the number of people who enter the country if we wish to be members of the political union.

Voting 'leave' is the ONLY way the UK may control its levels of immigration as it sees beneficial to the country.

...and you're right, it is crazy that Filipino qualified nurses have to formally apply for a visa while an unskilled Romanian labourer with a long criminal record for violent offences can just turn up here no questions.

originally posted by: and14263
Certainly correct my man. However it's one topic in among hundreds which should be a decider. However the good old British media have already cast their immigration spell on the easily led population.

I wonder how many people would be happy to have the Calais camp

nick named the jungle at the bottom of their garden or around their

local parks? Unless you are blind you can see what is happening.

It just makes the whole debate one track minded and plays into the hands of those who do not wish us to understand the economy.

Economics can be tarted up any which way you like, but the basic

bottom line, put simply is more cant be taken out of the pot than

is put in!

The damage has been done with regards to immigration. The damage has been done with regards to education. How many people voting really understand politics and economy? Most just read the papers and spout off about what they read.

Education?.... today parents were informed of the schools

their children were excepted into, it appears that a very large

percentage didn't get their first or second choices.(never mind

the media reporting just ask the parents.)

Yet it is alright to take in yet more children who don't even speak

the language.

Then what about accommodation? there isn't enough for the natives

never mind newcomers.

I'll vote out but the real problems aren't whether we are in EU or not. The problems lie in our media and our leaders who will always be in love with power and money.

Things will be worse if we *stay in* now, because the power

hungry EU leaders will think they now have us where they want us,

and they will exercise at every opportunity that power you mentioned

that they all love so much.They will enjoy squeezing us till we squeak.

a reply to: eletheia

Much respect to you. Thanks for replying. I hope it turns out well for everyone. X

Another article from Spiked a few days ago. A few excerpts.

The EU existed in various forms before the UK joined, and it could of course function were it to leave, but the secession of the world’s fifth largest economy would severely compromise the EU’s integrity. It would also set a humiliating precedent: no state has ever left the EU.

Britain’s obstinacy and perseverance has already exposed cracks in a tottering union that’s throwing back up internal borders as we speak. The Dutch prime minister, Mark Rutte, accuses Britain of ‘opening a Pandora’s box’, and no wonder he’s fretful: a poll published on Monday showed that 53 per cent of people in the Netherlands would also like a plebiscite on EU membership. At present, 44 per cent of the Dutch population want to remain in the EU, with 43 per cent wanting out.

Elsewhere, the Czech prime minister, Bohuslav Sobotka, also warned this week that Britain leaving could prompt a ‘Czexit’ in a country now deeply hostile to the EU. Three-fifths of Czechs say they are unhappy with EU membership and 62 per cent said they would vote against it in a referendum. The French, for all their customary jibes about ‘perfidious Albion’, are now beginning to talk about ‘Franxit’. Even Serbia, that one-time pariah nation in the eyes of Western Europe, has gone cold on the union. Aleksandar Vucic, the Serbian Prime Minister, now says that EU membership is no longer the ‘big dream it was in the past’.

Whatever positive or negative outcomes Brexit may bring, the EU is past its sell-by date. It never helped to bring peace to Europe; its establishment was a symptom of a desire for peace, not the cause of it. Just as the Thirty Years War of the 17th century prompted Europe to make the collective mental decision never again to go to war with itself over religion, the carnage of the First and Second World Wars ushered in a new thinking among Europe’s great powers never again to fight over nationalism. Eighty years on and Germany no more desires to invade Poland than do French Catholics seek to massacre French Protestants – as they did a few centuries ago.

The EU was erected on an unfounded fear that Europe might descend once more into continent-wide, nationalist bloodletting. As Denis Healey, the former Labour defence secretary, once said of EU-philes: ‘Their Europeanism is nothing but imperialism with an inferiority complex.’ The EU was built on the twin pillars of pessimism and fear, which is why you still hear little else from the pro-EU camp today.

With the collapse of the EU, we will still go on trading and co-operating with each other in this digitalised, decentralised, globalised world, because historic enmities have vanished. We Europeans will certainly be happier once we’re no longer compelled to live in the same house and share a bank account. The desire for European fraternity was a noble idea and of its era, but 1945 was a different time and a different place.

The EU is well past its sell-by date

As previously stated we need facts but we also need to counter the rhetoric from the Brexit camp.

originally posted by: Morrad
Another article from Spiked a few days ago. A few excerpts.
The EU existed in various forms before the UK joined, and it could of course function were it to leave, but the secession of the world’s fifth largest economy would severely compromise the EU’s integrity. It would also set a humiliating precedent: no state has ever left the EU.
Britain’s obstinacy and perseverance has already exposed cracks in a tottering union that’s throwing back up internal borders as we speak.

I think that is actually what they are frightened of and they are whistling in

the dark the EU is already crumbling at the edges .... it is a failed concept,

and UK leaving is the stone that will start the avalanche.

One of the fallacies they keep peddling is that the EU is the largest trading

union.

Well where as the might be large in the membership of having 28 members,

there are only about five countries of any substance, the others are very poor

and backward (that is why they are all trying to get into UK, Germany, France

and Sweden.)

Whatever positive or negative outcomes Brexit may bring, the EU is past its sell-by date. It never helped to bring peace to Europe; its establishment was a symptom of a desire for peace, not the cause of it.
The EU was erected on an unfounded fear that Europe might descend once more into continent-wide, nationalist bloodletting.

Isn't that why we have NATO??

With the collapse of the EU, we will still go on trading and co-operating with each other in this digitalised, decentralised, globalised world, because historic enmities have vanished. We Europeans will certainly be happier once we’re no longer compelled to live in the same house and share a bank account. The desire for European fraternity was a noble idea and of its era, but 1945 was a different time and a different place.
The EU is well past its sell-by date

Never a truer word spoken!!

As previously stated we need facts but we also need to counter the rhetoric from the Brexit camp.

Yes and we need the *OUT* campaigners to access to the paperwork

Cameron is hiding from them..... placing them in a disadvantageous position.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Morrad
Another article from Spiked a few days ago. A few excerpts.
The EU existed in various forms before the UK joined, and it could of course function were it to leave, but the secession of the world’s fifth largest economy would severely compromise the EU’s integrity. It would also set a humiliating precedent: no state has ever left the EU.
Britain’s obstinacy and perseverance has already exposed cracks in a tottering union that’s throwing back up internal borders as we speak.

I think that is actually what they are frightened of and they are whistling in

the dark the EU is already crumbling at the edges .... it is a failed concept,

and UK leaving is the stone that will start the avalanche.

One of the fallacies they keep peddling is that the EU is the largest trading

union.

Well where as the might be large in the membership of having 28 members,

there are only about five countries of any substance, the others are very poor

and backward (that is why they are all trying to get into UK, Germany, France

and Sweden.)

Whatever positive or negative outcomes Brexit may bring, the EU is past its sell-by date. It never helped to bring peace to Europe; its establishment was a symptom of a desire for peace, not the cause of it.
The EU was erected on an unfounded fear that Europe might descend once more into continent-wide, nationalist bloodletting.

Isn't that why we have NATO??

With the collapse of the EU, we will still go on trading and co-operating with each other in this digitalised, decentralised, globalised world, because historic enmities have vanished. We Europeans will certainly be happier once we’re no longer compelled to live in the same house and share a bank account. The desire for European fraternity was a noble idea and of its era, but 1945 was a different time and a different place.
The EU is well past its sell-by date

Never a truer word spoken!!

As previously stated we need facts but we also need to counter the rhetoric from the Brexit camp.

Yes and we need the *OUT* campaigners to access to the paperwork

Cameron is hiding from them..... placing them in a disadvantageous position.

Concur! I see a LEAVE majority on the horizon.

Just watched ITV news and discussion with Mother about her daughter not able to get into 3 schools of choice and then offered a 4th very poor performing school.

Not one person asked why not enough places? Media avoiding referring to the reason.

But we all know that it is because 20% of kids at school are immigrants!

Typical elite driven media!

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite


As previously stated we need facts but we also need to counter the rhetoric from the Brexit camp.

Yes and we need the *OUT* campaigners to access to the paperwork

Cameron is hiding from them..... placing them in a disadvantageous position.


Concur! I see a LEAVE majority on the horizon.

I sincerely hope so ... but I'm afraid the *OUT* lobby are being frustrated, and

information is being concealed from them.>>>>

Officials and politicians have said several EU initiatives have been put on ice, or pushed off the agenda
in an effort to avoid stirring up controversy before the British referendum on June 23rd.

Among them is a mid term review of the 7 year budget to increase EU spending by 20 billion euros
and then there is the launch of the EU accession to the 'European convention of human rights' Which the
British government strongly opposes because it infringes on the sovereignty of the British legal
system

Politicians in Brussels have resigned themselves to the fact that not much legislation will go through until
after the UK referendum.

A French official said "ALL THESE PROPOSALS CAN BE DISCUSSED AFTER JUNE 23RD WITHOUT CREATING
TOO MANY DIFFICULTIES"

Italian MEP Mercedes Bresso added that the referendum was causing a "delay in some debates" including
on the EU budget "Now is not the moment to create more problems" These proposals can be
discussed after June 23rd without creating too many difficulties. In fact it would be more problematic
if we had to negotiate under the pressure of the UK

The European Parliamentary budgetary committee isn't expecting to see the 'proposals for revisions'
until the autumn ---- mainly to avoid a pre referendum outcry over the proposals to give more money
to the EU

Polish MEP Jan Olbrycht said >>>>
"THEY ARE NOT WANTING TO OPEN THE PANDORA'S BOX BEFORE THE REFERENDUM"

The UK's ambassador to the EU, Ivan Rogers has been putting pressure on leaders to complete deals like
the EU/Canada trade agreement and the EU/US Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership before
the referendum to show that *The EU works* ??

www.politico.eu...


So everything is getting hidden under the radar?? - till AFTER the

referendum ...

The *stay in* lobby is playing a dirty underhanded game.

Join the vote to leave campaign here and vote

www.voteleavetakecontrol.org...