Extreme Feminism.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: CharlestonChew

I deal in facts not speculation as you seem to do.

Uh, sure. Even when the raw-data that the reports you post are demonstrably skewed because they fail to control for a multitude of factors. It sounds more like a case of "I want to believe."

I'm still making my way through the second report you linked to.

All of that aside:

If companies could save 23% by hiring a majority of women, why haven't they?

a reply to: CharlestonChew


Hollywood has pay differentials between leading male and

females....

www.forbes.com...

Another link of women being paid less than men in managerial

positions...

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: IvyNeptune

After reading all of the responses on the first page of this thread, I can't help but think that if I--a man--had posted this exact same thing (and I agree with it), the responses would have been quite different.

I say that from experience on other threads or other sites, because I've said similar things about modern militant feminists, and I got shouted down for reason that most included was because I'm a man and I don't know what I'm talking about.

Yet, here is the same type of thing from a female, and it's getting praise (again, at least on page one).

If I think about it and you allow it, I should copy and paste your OP in a new rant thread (obviously changing it to say that I'm male, and other appropriate changes) and see what the reactions are. It would be a real eye-opener, possibly, to see that if the information is what matters, or the messenger's gender.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

See, this is something I find to be complete bullchit. A valid opinion is still valid regardless of gender. It is disappointing, and a disgrace, that the OP could write her views and be applauded, but if you wrote it word for word, it would be torn apart because yours dangles.

Do not misunderstand, I'm not knocking the OP. However, I think it's an unfair blatant double standard for identical male opinions to be disregarded simply because of gender.

originally posted by: CharlestonChew

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: CharlestonChew

I deal in facts not speculation as you seem to do.

Uh, sure. Even when the raw-data that the reports you post are demonstrably skewed because they fail to control for a multitude of factors. It sounds more like a case of "I want to believe."

I'm still making my way through the second report you linked to.

All of that aside:

If companies could save 23% by hiring a majority of women, why haven't they?

Because it's bull to begin with. These stats don't take into account the women who take time off for going back to school & thus starting on the company's bottom rungs again, personal choices like maternity leaves & child-rearing years, therefore reducing their entitlement to things such as performance raises, tenure & seniority in general. If I were to hire someone my age who's been a SAHM for 10 years, she's not getting paid the same as someone who's been doing the work for 10 damn years. Sorry honey, you're out of practice, so to speak, and have a huge work history gap. Now you're playing catch-up. That's how it works, not "I get the same as John or Julie who's been doing it for a decade because we're both doing the same work & I just started yesterday."

What planet are these people from, anyway?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: IvyNeptune

After reading all of the responses on the first page of this thread, I can't help but think that if I--a man--had posted this exact same thing (and I agree with it), the responses would have been quite different.

I say that from experience on other threads or other sites, because I've said similar things about modern militant feminists, and I got shouted down for reason that most included was because I'm a man and I don't know what I'm talking about.

Yet, here is the same type of thing from a female, and it's getting praise (again, at least on page one).

If I think about it and you allow it, I should copy and paste your OP in a new rant thread (obviously changing it to say that I'm male, and other appropriate changes) and see what the reactions are. It would be a real eye-opener, possibly, to see that if the information is what matters, or the messenger's gender.

I, for one, would reply in the same manner. You are focussing too much on extremism and missing the true reason behind the issue.

a reply to: InTheLight

the wage gap research wasnt completely accurate because for some of the research and stats they just averaged out mens and womens wages, without taking in to account different job skill or anything of that nature.

There is also evidence that women are less likely to ask for promotions or pay rises which can also factor in. Also the fact that some women work part time because they are raising children. Im not saying there isnt gaps in certain rolls. but i am saying that we have to be careful what we quote as not everything is so black and white

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I am all for this experiment. if you want to give it a few days or something and perhaps give it a different title

a reply to: eletheia

I cant speak for the hollywood wage gap but I do know that they did some research into the wage gap in the corporate world and one of the key reasons women were paid less was because they were less assertive and didnt ask as often for pay rises.
Im not saying that there isnt a gap, Im just saying that there is more to it than women just being treated unfairly because she has a vagina and belongs in a kitchen.

Also dont get me wrong.. I dont think that men and women are treated completely equal all the time, but we cant make generalisations over it. A woman being paid less than a man for the same role is not always JUST because she has a vagina.
There are things too like lack of maternity leave in america that should seem like more of an issue than a wage gap that isnt exactly as it seems.

My main point for this thread was that when some feminists go so extreme it takes away from real issues. I care more about a women being treated fairly to a man, than i do about how much leg space a man needs when he sits because he has balls.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: IvyNeptune

In researching this tampon issue, it appears there are worldwide protests regarding removing the taxing of this and other sanitary menstral items. For instance incontinence products are not taxed but menstral products are. So, I am not sure why you are focussing on one extreme feminist's comment and ignoring the main driving force behind this protest. Women's health issues and basic necessities (which should not be taxed) are still left in the dust.

www.bbc.com...

It wasnt just one comment that I was referencing. A lot of females in this 3rd wave movement of feminism were speaking of self rape. My whole point what that by this kind of nonsense it took away from the actual meaning. Like you said.. tax on tampons. So you only really proved my point that being extremist on issues take away from the real cause and real issues.

a reply to: IvyNeptune


Sigh and you live in New Zealand.

Excellent logical thought progression and well laid out opinions.

I'm keeping my eye on you for future posts. Have you heard about the new movie coming out from a feminist called " The Red Pill" by Cassie Jaye ?



Thanks for much for sharing your rational insights with us.

I think in america women have enough rights, and if they try to tell you how you should think, pay no mind. People can be racist, sexist, or politically correct as long as they are not physically hurting others. Freiheit ist fur Freedoma reply to: IvyNeptune

a reply to: Realtruth

I do indeed live in New Zealand. The first country to give the women the vote.

I havent heard of this film but it looks interesting


In all honesty no I do not think in all cases women are treated equal. But at the same time its not like EVERYONE is always treated equal. Sometimes a man gets it better than a woman. Sometimes a Woman gets it better than a man. Sometimes one race is treated better than the other. This isnt a perfect world.

But being overly politically correct and calling everything rape isnt going to get us anywhere.

Debating with pro-radical feminists is an arduous task that no self-respecting person should expose themselves to. The opening post of this thread is a breath of fresh air, and it is good to see there are women out there not afraid to call out the garbage spewed by radical feminists.

originally posted by: IvyNeptune

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: IvyNeptune

In researching this tampon issue, it appears there are worldwide protests regarding removing the taxing of this and other sanitary menstral items. For instance incontinence products are not taxed but menstral products are. So, I am not sure why you are focussing on one extreme feminist's comment and ignoring the main driving force behind this protest. Women's health issues and basic necessities (which should not be taxed) are still left in the dust.

www.bbc.com...

It wasnt just one comment that I was referencing. A lot of females in this 3rd wave movement of feminism were speaking of self rape. My whole point what that by this kind of nonsense it took away from the actual meaning. Like you said.. tax on tampons. So you only really proved my point that being extremist on issues take away from the real cause and real issues.

What is a lot? Whereas there is a worldwide protest to end taxation of a feminine hygiene product, which is a much more worthy topic for discussion than a radical feminist bashing thread, which in my opinion takes away from the important issues.

I could flood the rant forum with extreme men's rights groups who bash women threads, but I don't because they are a minority and their frustration and hatred is misguided - so what's the point of giving it any focus, it's a lost cause, just as with radical feminism.

a reply to: InTheLight

I think your opinion is a little skewed here.

On this site we talk about radical Muslims, radical white supremacists, radical Buddhists setting fire to themselves, radical folks all over the place, doing the radical thing, and the radicalisation of people all over the place, by all manner of different ideologies.

Why are you treating this like a hit piece, rather than treating it as an opportunity to discuss the problem presented by radicalism in feminism?

a reply to: InTheLight

Not really--not if you've had the experiences that I have when voicing similar opinions on modern feminist extremists. I'm not saying that all of the responses I get are negative and berate me for opening my mouth while I have danglies attached to my body, but what I am saying is that there would be a generally heightened level of anger and hatred directed at my opinion simply because I am a dude.

But, to be fair, the extremism IS the issue, at least in this thread, anyhow--it is the problem about which this thread is talking. The thread titled "Extreme Feminism." So, why should I not be focusing on the extremism side of it?

Telling me that I'm "focusing too much on extremisim" in the "Extreme Feminism" thread doesn't make much sense to me.

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: SlapMonkey

I am all for this experiment. if you want to give it a few days or something and perhaps give it a different title

Of course I would change things a bit, but it would be plagiarized, for the most part, just to keep a constant as the main part of the experiment.

The biggest challenge is for me to remember to do it.

Thanks for your blessing.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

When the OP's intent of this thread is that extreme feminism comments detract from the real issues, then too much importance is given them over the real issues. That is my point. Also, if everyone wants to discuss the fact of extremism detracting from the real issues why isn't anyone discussing extreme men's rights comments, or other extremist groups off-the-mark rantings as there is lots to be had?

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: SlapMonkey

When the OP's intent of this thread is that extreme feminism comments detract from the real issues, then too much importance is given them over the real issues. That is my point. Also, if everyone wants to discuss the fact of extremism detracting from the real issues why isn't anyone discussing extreme men's rights comments, or other extremist groups off-the-mark rantings as there is lots to be had? Also I am at a loss to understand why the OP did not mention the worldwide tampon protests as a reason a few feminists chose to protest via free bleeding (only a few mind you). Again, too much focus on the very few who do not speak for the majority and no mention of the real issue. Just google tampons as rape and only one entry comes up, whereas multiple entries deal with the real taxation issue - the focus here further detracts from the real issue.

edit on 23-2-2016 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)