Cameron Fires Starting Gun for EU Brexit

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Not the UK but the greedy and the elite! Hes a sycho

Try and keep it to the issues and not target the person. The EU decision will impact me, but probably have greater implications for my kids. If people vote because they don't like the person giving the message, then that's just shallow.

The other day on QT a woman made a good point of both sides doing nothing but mongering fear and leaving people on the fence clueless as to the substance of the issue...


That's a lot of voters I bet.


Stay, because it's better the devil you know?
Leave, because it's best to be safe than sorry?

No matter the result a lot of people are gonna be left wanting.



Shame on every politician that has spoken about this topic but offered nothing in the way of proper Intel.

originally posted by: paraphi
So, what's he saying that's making you so frightened. He seems quite balanced in his view, that in his opinion the UK would be negatively impacted if we left the EU.

Not frightened ....

Point being he achieved little ... imo nothing ... LOL!! just heard in

the background, his remarkable achievement

Listening to those who think he is the new messiah .... this whole last few

days have been *theatre* a pantomime, a farce, much ado about NOTHING

It'll go exactly the same way as the Scottish referendum. Lots of campaigning and promises leading up to the vote, the day after it'll be "Yeah well, we don't know how it's gonna work or when it'll happen."

There is no reason at all to trust anything he says. I think there's advantages to staying and going but I'd prefer to see the public vote out just to show the government when they undemocratically step outside the boundaries of their job they'll be smacked down and disciplined.

Meh, whatever happens life will still go on the day after. I'm obviously hoping for an 'out' vote by all parts of the UK, but I'll be happy enough if the Scots decide different and end up leaving to instead be ruled by the EU.
I still chuckle to myself that 16/17 year olds haven't got the vote, and same for EU nationals living in the UK, I know it really pisses the SNP nationalists off lol

a reply to: gortex

I think if we vote to leave the EU then Scotland vote to leave the union, so there goes the United Kingdom. Wales will probably also follow suit considering they also have plenty to lose regarding our departure form the European union.

originally posted by: andy06shake
Wales will probably also follow suit considering they also have plenty to lose regarding our departure form the European union.

Lol, have you not seen the latest polls in Wales? ITV News
45% Leave, 37% Stay.

Anecdotally my entire family in Wales are voting to leave, along with all my friends back home, I don't know why so many Scots on ATS seem to think Wales is of the same mindset as Scotland.

a reply to: grainofsand

We will just need to wait until June to find out. The polls will move around a few points here and a few points there while the pros and cons regarding the situation are presented.

The thing with these polls is that the people presenting and recording the information generally have there own agenda at play.

Certainly interesting times in which we live.

a reply to: andy06shake

It will be interesting to see just how many actually turn out to vote.

I have a feeling there won't be many as they'll be sick and tired of all the propaganda from both sides and will just not bother voting because like the poor turnouts for the last election people are finally realising they're screwed either way so no point wasting time in voting.

I'm not sure myself whether I can be bothered voting and what I would vote for, doesn't seem to be a good vote whichever you choose and I'm a fan of the being able to freely travel anywhere in the EU

originally posted by: Discotech
I'm not sure myself whether I can be bothered voting and what I would vote for, doesn't seem to be a good vote whichever you choose and I'm a fan of the being able to freely travel anywhere in the EU

Well, if you cannot be bothered to vote, then don't complain about the outcome!

I find voting apathy by complainers a strain.

a reply to: Discotech

I think just because of the immigration issues that are involved the turn out regarding the vote will be rather surprising.

originally posted by: andy06shake
Certainly interesting times in which we live.

Oh definitely
Regarding Wales and Scotland though, to give you a factual example of the differences between the two, at the general election last year these were the vote percentages in the respective countries for the Conservatives, UKIP and Nationalists:

Scotland: Conservatives 14.9%, UKIP 1.6%, Nationalists (SNP) 50%
Wales: Conservatives 27.2%, UKIP 13.6%, Nationalists (Plaid Cymru) 12.1%

Massive actual voting difference between the two nations, just pointing it out as so many Scots seem to think they are singing from the same songsheet as people in Wales...they most definitely are not.

www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: grainofsand

Its the bastards that came up with the song sheets i have a problem with. Like i said before its all just window dressing for the masses.

Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be. I just hope that the decision we come to as a nation does not effect our children's future quality of life in an adverse manner.

a reply to: paraphi

I never understand that kind of logic

It's basically like saying "pick which way you want to get f'd" when 9 times out 10 it's pretty much the same way anyway

I have every right to complain and not vote when there is no suitable option for my voting preference, I'm not going to arbitrarily just pick one or the other for the hell of it.

a reply to: andy06shake

Agreed.
Only one way to find out I guess, and at least we won't have long to wait.
I personally think we will be better off out in the long run but of course that is pure opinion.

What I know for a fact though is that uncontrolled EU immigration has definitely lowered pay rates in many areas.
I'm self employed property maintenance, plastering to blocklaying, stud walling and everything in between. Since the Eastern Europeans came in their hundreds of thousands everyone has had to drop their prices because Hungarians and the like will do a days work for £45.
Some folk say "Oh, it's the exploitative employers paying below minimum wage!" etc, but no, in the self-employed game there is no minimum wage and you charge for the job, so all perfectly legal, and 10 folk living in a rented house can live of £45 a day and still send money back to their home nation.

The UK does not need semi/unskilled labourers from the EU, not so many years ago 16/17 year old's could start at the bottom on building sites, but now those jobs are taken by EU nationals.
Anyone who denies this has never worked on a construction site.

a reply to: grainofsand

I hear you, it must be frustrating to be undercut but it's partly the fault of British contractors for constantly ripping people off and being unreliable though. I had a full renovation done by Romanians that did it for 30% of the price quoted by all the British companies I contacted and they did it in half the time to a very high standard.

I actually gave the contract to 2 British companies prior to that, the first team only bothered to show up on day 3, the second company began adding materials to their receipts for other projects and were doing a crap job, both were promptly sacked.

As a consumer I appreciate bein able to have the choice.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

Totally agree there are some rip-off UK cowboys out there, and I'll add that I've worked with some quality EU nationals who charge a regular rate as I do.
Right now as it is though any semi/unskilled worker can rock up in Britain and undercut like a badass living 4 to a room and sending the money back home.

Australians/New Zealanders/Canadians/US citizens cannot just move here and work unskilled jobs because we control the immigration based on need. Nobody argues against the controls on the rest of the world, yet we have hundreds of thousands entering every year from piss poor parts of the EU.
This has definitely lowered job prices and removed the entry level labouring jobs from our young people who used to start at the bottom.

I'm all for immigration...just controlled and under a needs based system the same as we do for the rest of the world outside of the EU.

People here saying there is propaganda from both sides, I have to disagree.

The propaganda is coming from the Remain campaign and the MSM who have been too busy making headlines and talking about trivial issues rather than discussions the real positive and negatives from each side.

If you watch the Grassroots Out (GO) rallies you will see we are not fear-mongering at all...

Here is one of my best Brexit speeches so far, it is well worth the watch...

a reply to: 83Liberty

I just watched all of that, excellent reasoned speech, bit of emotional argument in there as well, but overall a good vid to see.
Cheers for posting it here

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
Not the UK but the greedy and the elite! Hes a sycho

Try and keep it to the issues and not target the person. The EU decision will impact me, but probably have greater implications for my kids. If people vote because they don't like the person giving the message, then that's just shallow.

My points have nothing to do with who negotiated a bum irrelevant deal. Cameron is irrelevant to the issues that impact ordinary folk in the UK due to being in the EU.

And I have many kids. Worked hard and pay my taxes. Also have 16 letters after my name but never forgot my roots and the difficulties of people of lesser means!

Don't suggest I am shallow. You don't know me.

I will vote out and almost all the people I know from various backgrounds are going to do the same. Its got nothing to do with Cameron but the impact of being in the EU.