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Your standards are to have the gov do whatever to get you what you want.
Which is by default socialism because it uses a gov with the power to do anything.
originally posted by: Wardaddy454
I dunno about his youth activities, But the man is a liar.
Start from the 7:58 mark.
originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Semicollegiate
That is incorrect. The things that I would "want" are easily done outside of the control of the government, and can be achieved by the collective will of the people itself.
This doesn't make much sense. Government, as well as certain other areas has to be strictly limited in it's scope, outside of what the people allow.
Again, it seems you have a generic or "canned" understanding of socialism. Black and White, but it's not black and white at all. You cannot fathom that a "socialist" would believe anything outside of complete and total government control. That is not what I advocate for.
You make many assumptions and those assumptions only feed your own ignorance.
originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Teikiatsu
Uh...
You aren't making any logical sense.
originally posted by: tabularosa
Bernie Sanders: ‘Democratic Socialist’ Or Out-And-Out Stalinist? Easy. He is a democratic socialist who wants America to have a government for the People, by the People. Vote for Bernie. He is the only candidate running who is for all of us
originally posted by: yesyesyes
The thing people do not consider is the authoritarian part of Stalin... In this, Stalin was much more like the GOP,
punitive, pro torture, pro prison, pro big military and huge on "national security".
If people would think critically, they could see that these things, arguably the worst part of Stalinism are aspects that appeal to the GOP.
Sanders is against punitive usage of government, war and big government security apparatus.
I just think the American population is demented, sedated and unable to think critically. The best many can do is regurgitate what they see on their TV screens.
This is why most conservatives hold the same, half witted ideas. 90% watch the same TV station and get information from a centralized source, because all other information has been deemed "liberal bias".
originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: TerryMcGuire
But the problem is many people might think this is true.
How many votes could this cost?
Supporters need to somehow counter this.
No, I think the problem here is you HOPE people might think it is true.
originally posted by: Teikiatsu
originally posted by: yesyesyes
The thing people do not consider is the authoritarian part of Stalin... In this, Stalin was much more like the GOP,
Ah yes... projecting negativity by trying to create similarities.
Stalin and his communists were punitive to those who were not communists. They tortured dissidents. They jailed political opponents. Their military was a state police. The 'national security' was in place to keep people in Russia, not to keep other people out.
Yes and the point is the GOP panders to a base that is pro torture, pro war, pro police militarism, pro police, pro domestic spying, pro big military and pro industrial military complex. This represents the authoritarian axis of political leanings that the GOP and Stalinists have in common.
Bernie Sanders who may hold economic commonalities with Stalinist ideas, is against all these things that the GOP base and the Stalinists were very much for. These are basic idealistic components that do not applies to Sanders or his bases core issues. If you fail to concede it, chances are you are keen to protect your ego and over being intellectual honest with yourself.
Seriously, there is no comparison.
Seriously, you are not being honest with yourself denial.
Liberals dehumanize their ideological and political opponents, They seek to make conservative and republicans a faceless enemy that is easy to hate. They cry out 'hate crime' and micr-aggressions to try and silence those who disagree with them.
You mean the same isn't true of conservatives? Mitt Romney called half the population TAKERS. Obama has been painted for 8 years as a secret homosexual, muslim, communist, illegal alien who is hiding his true identity and nationality. You have got to be kidding me if you believe political polarization is purely perpetuated by liberals.
I have a much easier time seeing liberals veering towards punitive, military police policies. I have no problems seeing liberals call for policies that force people and companies stay in place and lose their freedom of movement.
That is pretty outlandish considering that the people regularly protesting the war and police militarization are liberals.
Tell me, how many times have you seen conservatives protesting police of military action?
You really are in serious denial.
Conservative America regularly expands the government through the auspices of national security, expands corporate domination over the political process and works to make the richer, richer and increase burden on the middle class so the makers make more.
originally posted by: nenothtu
originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: TerryMcGuire
But the problem is many people might think this is true.
How many votes could this cost?
Supporters need to somehow counter this.
No, I think the problem here is you HOPE people might think it is true.
Admittedly, I'm only at the end of the first page, but so far I've seen a whole page of people screaming "LIES!", but not a single post of actual refutation. In other words, I've yet to see anyone, Sanders supporters included, show it to be NOT true.
Maybe someone can tackle that in the next few pages.
originally posted by: yesyesyes
Sanders is firmly opposed to the authoritarian policies that Stalin carried out.
American conservatives are far more in line with the authoritarian aspects of Stalinism, pro torture, pro military might, pro mass incarceration, among other things.
More denial
originally posted by: nenothtu
originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: TerryMcGuire
But the problem is many people might think this is true.
How many votes could this cost?
Supporters need to somehow counter this.
No, I think the problem here is you HOPE people might think it is true.
Admittedly, I'm only at the end of the first page, but so far I've seen a whole page of people screaming "LIES!", but not a single post of actual refutation. In other words, I've yet to see anyone, Sanders supporters included, show it to be NOT true.
Maybe someone can tackle that in the next few pages.
originally posted by: Teikiatsu
"Yes and the point is the GOP panders to a base that is pro torture, pro war, pro police militarism, pro police, pro domestic spying, pro big military and pro industrial military complex. This represents the authoritarian axis of political leanings that the GOP and Stalinists have in common. "
Pro-torture, no. Pro-interrogation of a known terror leader, sure why not?
Pro-war, no. Pro-Peace through Superior Firepower, yep.
Pro-Police Militarism... hell no. You haven't been paying attention if you believe that.
Pro-Police, yes. Pro-bad cop, no.
Pro-Domestic Spying... no again, and you haven't been paying attention if you believe that. I've seen Dems support it more.
Pro-Military Complex... mixed bag. See 'Peace through Superior Firepower'
Again, you have your wires crossed about Stalinists/Communists and Conservatives.
"Bernie Sanders who may hold economic commonalities with Stalinist ideas, is against all these things that the GOP base and the Stalinists were very much for. These are basic idealistic components that do not applies to Sanders or his bases core issues. If you fail to concede it, chances are you are keen to protect your ego and over being intellectual honest with yourself."
If I fail to concede... meaning that since I don't agree with your false premise I must be a poopy head. Duly noted.
"Seriously, you are not being honest with yourself denial. "
There's the projection again.
"You mean the same isn't true of conservatives? Mitt Romney called half the population TAKERS."
Yeah his numbers were way off. More like 10%, maybe 15%.
"Obama has been painted for 8 years as a secret homosexual, muslim, communist, illegal alien who is hiding his true identity and nationality. You have got to be kidding me if you believe political polarization is purely perpetuated by liberals. "
I don't deny that polarization occurs. But I challenge you to name a leader of the Republican party or Conservatives that has made those allegations, instead of some random anonymous commentators on a blog somewhere.
Personally I think Obama is a closet atheist with dual American/British citizenship... but I'm not a political leader.
"That is pretty outlandish considering that the people regularly protesting the war and police militarization are liberals.
Tell me, how many times have you seen conservatives protesting police of military action? "
Haven't seen too many Tea Party rallies where the police showed up in riot gear, huh? Haven't paid attention to the outcry against the hyper-militarization that led to martial law in Massachusetts after the Boston Marathon bombing, huh? Heck, we were pointing out that the armed response to Ferguson was overblown.
"You really are in serious denial."
Since you are talking to yourself at this point I'll move on.
"Conservative America regularly expands the government through the auspices of national security,"
Example?
"expands corporate domination over the political process and works to make the richer, richer"
You really aren't paying attention to conservatives. If you were you'd see that this is one point where the Tea Party and OWS agreed on. It's where Cruz and Sanders agree too. There is too much money and cronyism in government. The Tea Party started with Bush and TARP, not Obama and his Stimulus.
" and increase burden on the middle class so the makers make more."
Burden on the People, no. Allowing the People to be more productive, heck yes.
originally posted by: Teikiatsu
originally posted by: yesyesyes
Sanders is firmly opposed to the authoritarian policies that Stalin carried out.
American conservatives are far more in line with the authoritarian aspects of Stalinism, pro torture, pro military might, pro mass incarceration, among other things.
More denial
Trying to repeat a lie often enough that it sounds true?
Senate Democratic votes for the Iraq War
If you remember that day, it was a day of speeches. And at least out among the Littles, the final count wasn’t known until the roll was called. Here are your brave warrior Dems, those who voted Yes, covered in testosterone (or confusion) and glory. I’ve highlighted a few names to note:
YEAs — 77
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Democrats love WAR