Why Alien Disclosure Will Not Occur

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Not "funny" at all, in any sense of the word; it is the topic of this thread.

Is it now?!! And here I thought the topic was "Why disclosure won't happen"; which doesn't necessarily involve "government" at all.

The governments of the world use the belief in extraterrestrials to manipulate people the way belief in gods was used in the past.

Just how do governments do this when most of what they are saying is; ET doesn't exist, no evidence and all you know...

In fact most of the obfuscation around the whole Extraterrestrial question comes from people just like you who "think" they know, when in fact most are denying the reality of ET...for their own sake.

For instance; I made an assertion about the "Hill Map" which you immediately denied, and made some comments about how the data was wrong, as was I; yet you have made absolutely no attempt to show how this is true. And, the worst of it is that everyone else simply "towed the line" and accepted your assertions over mine without any sort of scientific inquiry or data. Just like you did...

So, it would seem that while "disclosure" may be inevitable, it won't happen today because of individual attitudes, and the refusal to accept viable data as evidence.

As long as you and others refuse to open your eyes; then almost for a certain, disclosure will not happen. And no involvement from government is required...

a reply to: tanka418

Is it now?!! And here I thought the topic was "Why disclosure won't happen"; which doesn't necessarily involve "government" at all.

Who is in a position to "disclose?" The whole thing about the myth of Disclosure is that the governments of the world have been concealing the truth about extraterrestrials from the public. There are hundreds of people making claims to know the truth, but that is not considered "Disclosure."

Just how do governments do this when most of what they are saying is; ET doesn't exist, no evidence and all you know...

Exactly; by not making specific claims, they can create any rumor they want and, by the twisted logic of conspiracy thinking, confirm those rumors by denying them! If the military had flying saucers, they would make a show of them; by denying they exist, people think that they have them without the necessity of actually building any.

In fact most of the obfuscation around the whole Extraterrestrial question comes from people just like you who "think" they know, when in fact most are denying the reality of ET...for their own sake.

Unlike you, I have never claimed to "know" anything about what you call the "extraterrestrial question" beyond understanding the extreme likelihood of extraterrestrial life and the extreme unlikeliness that it has visited Earth.

For instance; I made an assertion about the "Hill Map" which you immediately denied, and made some comments about how the data was wrong, as was I; yet you have made absolutely no attempt to show how this is true.

You are unaware of the efforts I am putting in to my forthcoming thread. In the mean time, I linked to an article that showed that data from Hipparcos does not support Fish's identification. You have claimed to have verified her identification using this better data but have not posted your own research. I would appreciate it if you started a new thread for that purpose; I am genuinely interested in your results.

And, the worst of it is that everyone else simply "towed the line" and accepted your assertions over mine without any sort of scientific inquiry or data.

Is that why your posts are the ones getting all the stars, even though you have not shown the fruits of your own research?

So, it would seem that while "disclosure" may be inevitable, it won't happen today because of individual attitudes, and the refusal to accept viable data as evidence.

No, it will not happen because ambiguity is more useful than a falsifiable lie.

As long as you and others refuse to open your eyes; then almost for a certain, disclosure will not happen. And no involvement from government is required...

Perhaps you should explain what you mean by "disclosure."

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Unlike you, I have never claimed to "know" anything about what you call the "extraterrestrial question" beyond understanding the extreme likelihood of extraterrestrial life and the extreme unlikeliness that it has visited Earth.

Yet when you deny viable data, you imply that you know something...though I am glad that you admit that you know nothing...course then again; you do seem to indicate that you know what the "probabilities" are...do you? Really?!!!

You are unaware of the efforts I am putting in to my forthcoming thread. In the mean time, I linked to an article that showed that data from Hipparcos does not support Fish's identification.

You are right I am unaware of your efforts, you haven't posted anything yet. This indicates to me that there is a very great amount of superfluous information, primarily intended to obfuscate the realities.
Not exactally scientific!

Yes you showed an article that tried to show how Ms. Fish's data didn't conform to Hipparcos. Unfortunately that article is a lie, as the Fish interpretation remains valid even in view of Hipparcos. Perhaps if you did the work yourself and didn't rely on someone else with an unknown agenda...The reality is that the Fish interpretation works just fine with Hipparcos data, just as it does with 2MASS data (2 micron all sky survey). What the author of that article didn't tell you was that most of the stars positions change very little, and, most are closer with the Hipparcos data, as contrasted with the Gliese data. The article also lies about the "close binaries" found in the map...the reality is that while the stars are binaries, they are far from "close". A similar set of untruths exist about the "variable" stars in the map. So, all in all, that article is worthless and conveys only untruth and intentional obfuscation (at the prompting of Government?).

You have claimed to have verified her identification using this better data but have not posted your own research. I would appreciate it if you started a new thread for that purpose; I am genuinely interested in your results.

Ya know, I distinctly remember posting this link in this thread...alien.wolfmagick.com...
But, here ya go again...I was saving most of my work for your thread...unfortunately it appears to not be forthcoming...

No, it will not happen because ambiguity is more useful than a falsifiable lie.

Where you see "ambiguity", I see some dumb a$$ trying, usually in vein, to obfuscate the issue with worthless content.

Perhaps you should explain what you mean by "disclosure."

How about scientifically viable data in support of any of the hypotheses? Like mine in support of ET...

In fairness whether people go batty or not, what is that to do with anything? You appear to be well into your science fiction and perhaps factual discoveries too, so therefore you yourself must surely be aware that there is plenty of life away from this planet, how stupid are humans supposed to be? I am sure most realise that life is abundent throughout our galaxy and many zillions of galaxies beyond. We are a species of limited understanding, with science turning it's back on any thing that falls outside their accepted norm. Proper investigating of several different fields are being rejected and ignored because the results will change our understanding of our existence on this planet as we were told, because most of what is groomed into us, is b#. It's not just alien life forms that are being kept from us, it's the truth of our own existence on this ball of rock, how it came to be, and the true historical past of this lump of cosmic rubble we are living on. Aliens are becoming old fashioned now, and more to the point is what kind of life form are they, are they connected with what we perceive as paranormal, are those self same aliens responsible for so many ghost sightings too. are we dealing with one and the same dimension. It's not a question of if there are any, its now more a question of what sort of lifeform are they.

a reply to: tanka418

Yet when you deny viable data, you imply that you know something...though I am glad that you admit that you know nothing...course then again; you do seem to indicate that you know what the "probabilities" are...do you? Really?!!!

Where have I ever denied viable data? I do evaluate the reliability of data. If you continue the personal attacks I will report you to the Mods.

You are right I am unaware of your efforts, you haven't posted anything yet.

Oh? I have posted a great deal. You might want to review my posting history to understand how much research I will do when necessary.

This indicates to me that there is a very great amount of superfluous information, primarily intended to obfuscate the realities. Not exactally scientific!

Either that, or a great deal of vital relevant information that undercuts mistaken beliefs that ignore the realities.

Yes you showed an article that tried to show how Ms. Fish's data didn't conform to Hipparcos. Unfortunately that article is a lie, as the Fish interpretation remains valid even in view of Hipparcos. Perhaps if you did the work yourself and didn't rely on someone else with an unknown agenda...The reality is that the Fish interpretation works just fine with Hipparcos data, just as it does with 2MASS data (2 micron all sky survey). What the author of that article didn't tell you was that most of the stars positions change very little, and, most are closer with the Hipparcos data, as contrasted with the Gliese data. The article also lies about the "close binaries" found in the map...the reality is that while the stars are binaries, they are far from "close". A similar set of untruths exist about the "variable" stars in the map. So, all in all, that article is worthless and conveys only untruth and intentional obfuscation (at the prompting of Government?).

In your biased opinion; as I have pointed out, the pattern of stars is extremely subjective. Wishful thinking can connect any set of dots.

Ya know, I distinctly remember posting this link in this thread...alien.wolfmagick.com...
But, here ya go again...I was saving most of my work for your thread...unfortunately it appears to not be forthcoming...

Just because the link times out, I'm not going to insinuate that you are a liar. Please learn from that example.

Where you see "ambiguity", I see some dumb a$$ trying, usually in vein, to obfuscate the issue with worthless content.

Please try to understand what other people have written before you respond. The government can exploit ambiguity. Do you disagree?

Perhaps you should explain what you mean by "disclosure."


How about scientifically viable data in support of any of the hypotheses? Like mine in support of ET...

That is not what the UFO community means by Disclosure. They want The Establishment to reveal what it knows, not another theory from an amateur, and I use that word with respect.

ATTENTION PLEASE

Please keep in mind that the topic is never each other or opinions of each other. Please keep the conversation on the topic and off each other.

Do not reply to this post.

Thanks.

Blaine91555
Moderator

originally posted by: flipflop
In fairness whether people go batty or not, what is that to do with anything? You appear to be well into your science fiction and perhaps factual discoveries too, so therefore you yourself must surely be aware that there is plenty of life away from this planet, how stupid are humans supposed to be?

There's a huge difference between hypothetical alien life and real, actual verified alien life that might interact with us. Sure, we all like to watch tigers and bears in the zoo. Not so may would be as keen to have tigers and bears roaming freely in our back yards.

From: International Business Times:

Alien abduction of married couple 'proven' by star map they drew claims statistician
By Mark Piggott
September 20, 2015

Alien abduction claims made by a married couple 54 years ago, have been given new credence after it emerged a sketch of a star map they made closely resembles a real constellation they could not have known about at the time. Betty and Barney Hill, from New Hampshire, US, claimed they were abducted by aliens and intimately examined aboard a UFO on 19 September 1961.

Neither of the couple initially recalled being abducted, but both experienced a three-hour memory lapse on the night in question after which they experienced nightmares and suffered from severe stress. Betty's dress was torn and covered in a strange pink powder of unknown origin. The couple's car was covered in concentric circles which caused a compass to spin uncontrollably.

Betty asked 'The Leader' where he came from. "I said 'I know you're not from this planet but where are you from?' He showed me a star map indicating where he came from."

Under hypnosis Betty drew a version of the map she'd been shown. At the time experts said the map didn't resemble any known area of space. However, the Hills continued to insist they had been abducted until they died.

Now, statistician David Saunders says the map closely resembles the Zeta Reticuli system in the southern constellation of Reticulum. Proof, he believes, that the Hills really were telling the truth about being abducted by aliens.

The Zeta Reticuli system was first noted in astronomical texts in the 1800s, but it has only been closely studied since 1996. The Hills did identify Zeta Reticuli as the system the aliens were from. Ufologists named the type of aliens the Hills allegedly encountered as Reticulans.

See whole article here:
www.ibtimes.co.uk...

Can you even imagine our leaders admitting that they know of a superior species of an advanced technology that they are
yet to comprehend visting this planet, making a mockery of any and all attempts to stop them [some of which are recorded
fact] and of whidh there is no defense in the event that they should turn hostile

It's not going to happen


"I believe alien life is quite common in the universe, although intelligent life is less so.
Some say it has yet to appear on planet Earth."
- Stephen Hawking

As I've said before about the Betty Hill map, I find it charming that so much has been made out of it in the past by assuming that it was like an old-fashioned gas station map, except in 3-D.

Even we, in the marvelous world of the future, have maps that automatically shift and change according to where the viewer is. I don't think it would be unreasonable for a supposedly advanced alien to have a map on their space ship that displays local space (if that's even what it does, and doesn't illustrate stuff like wormholes or outposts between stars, etc.) from the perspective of the Earth. Maybe that's what the alien's "joke" was about, when he asked her if she could even tell where she was on the map, since it wouldn't even be shown.

So many assumptions.

I am breaking my own posting rules, referring to another good topic today, by writing while tired, but I just also read the moderator's posts about UFO and alien threads...dang it, I've lost it, so I can't do it justice, but it seemed to infer a dead topic now due to no proof.

I paused over that, but sighed and let it go. I returned to this one and refreshed my memory as to what this thread is about, as I was questioning if this is a theoretical discussion, which it seems to be, but...oh, never mind.

Maybe I'm bumping the wrong thread. Are there any "experiencers" out there? I see people afraid to speak up, and I'm guessing it's a fear of ridicule, but the result is that people with experience are becoming as elusive as the aliens themselves.

Lately I'm searching elsewhere for answers and was just watching a 2 hour interview with Linda Howe and the Coast to Coast guy, and they were referring to a recent survey that suggested that there are over 4 million experiences out there. Why can't I find them on ATS?

Sorry, I guess this is a frustrated bump and a rant. But I relate to the title of this post. ATS has offered me enough information to be convinced that I'm not alone and I've been cautiously sharing some of my own experiences, but also feeling an awkward sense of a different type of isolation now. Still, I am grateful for, I guess, the theory of ATS!

So, tomorrow I will read this and then write my posting rules 100 times.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Where have I ever denied viable data? I do evaluate the reliability of data. If you continue the personal attacks I will report you to the Mods.

Then I'll presume you are not aware...but you do it frequently, when you posted the link to the article attempting to debunk the Map. You do it again in the same context in this post. You discount, deny, trivialize and minimize valid data. And proceed as if that data did not exist...

Oh? I have posted a great deal. You might want to review my posting history to understand how much research I will do when necessary.

I was meaning relevant and recent work...

In your biased opinion; as I have pointed out, the pattern of stars is extremely subjective. Wishful thinking can connect any set of dots.

There ya go again, ignoring viable data; I've already told you that I used computer template matching methods on the map; computers are noted for their decided lack of imagination or "wishful thinking"
.

Not to mention that I challenged you on your mistaken thought that any set of 17 "dots" could be matched to Hipparcos...you, as I remember said it would be easy and was going to author a thread demonstrating that, among other things.

I will remind the reader again that the probability of 17 random dots matching Hipparcos is 1 in >1.44e+86 making it virtually impossible.

No, the pattern of stars is not subjective. All of the "shapes" required to positively identify this star group are given in the original template, so sorry, rather objective...

Just because the link times out, I'm not going to insinuate that you are a liar. Please learn from that example.

Interesting, I've not received any outage reports from the monitor service...but, intermittent, and, brief events don't seem to count sometimes...keep trying, I assure you the link works.

That is not what the UFO community means by Disclosure. They want The Establishment to reveal what it knows, not another theory from an amateur, and I use that word with respect.

Yet most have unreasonable expectations of the data, and, fail to understand that "another theory from an amateur " may be what is needed to compel the establishment to disclose.

It seems to me that, for the most part, people do not understand what they are given, and in that failure assume that what they were looking for does not exist. It is amazing that if they would simply open themselves to a little additional education, a little better understanding, most questions would be answered.

originally posted by: ClownFish
I am breaking my own posting rules, referring to another good topic today, by writing while tired, but I just also read the moderator's posts about UFO and alien threads...dang it, I've lost it, so I can't do it justice, but it seemed to infer a dead topic now due to no proof.

I paused over that, but sighed and let it go. I returned to this one and refreshed my memory as to what this thread is about, as I was questioning if this is a theoretical discussion, which it seems to be, but...oh, never mind.

Maybe I'm bumping the wrong thread. Are there any "experiencers" out there? I see people afraid to speak up, and I'm guessing it's a fear of ridicule, but the result is that people with experience are becoming as elusive as the aliens themselves.

Lately I'm searching elsewhere for answers and was just watching a 2 hour interview with Linda Howe and the Coast to Coast guy, and they were referring to a recent survey that suggested that there are over 4 million experiences out there. Why can't I find them on ATS?

Sorry, I guess this is a frustrated bump and a rant. But I relate to the title of this post. ATS has offered me enough information to be convinced that I'm not alone and I've been cautiously sharing some of my own experiences, but also feeling an awkward sense of a different type of isolation now. Still, I am grateful for, I guess, the theory of ATS!

So, tomorrow I will read this and then write my posting rules 100 times.

To answer your query - Here is one I started a couple of years ago:

Have You had Contact with an Alien?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: tanka418

Please learn the differences between data, information, and interpretation. If you believe you have proof that the Hill map matches something in the real world, please start a thread about it, I'm sure everyone will find it fascinating. Meanwhile, this thread is about Disclosure, understood by the UFO community to mean when the governments of the world disclose the facts about extraterrestrial visitation that they have been keeping secret.

a reply to: [post=20448327]AlienView[/post

Thank you!!!

I've only been here five weeks and I'm still lost in space. Sometimes it feels like five minutes and sometimes like five hundred years. And I've discovered the scariest button on ATS is the Start Here one.

I've read the first paragraph of your other thread and I see a consistency of quality in your posts. Thank you for being here.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Please learn the differences between data, information, and interpretation. If you believe you have proof that the Hill map matches something in the real world, please start a thread about it, I'm sure everyone will find it fascinating. Meanwhile, this thread is about Disclosure, understood by the UFO community to mean when the governments of the world disclose the facts about extraterrestrial visitation that they have been keeping secret.

Data and information are the same thing. Interpretation is One's understanding of said data...

Yes, DJ this thread is about disclosure, and that is what I've been talking about, and trying to get across...

I think it is nice that you have such a narrow idea of disclosure, however, not everyone is wearing such large "blinders", and many are simply looking for something a bit more concrete, something they can hold and understand as "real". Not necessarily from a government, that we have so learned to not trust, but from independent, verifiable, science.

What I've been attempting to discuss, and what you are now avoiding is most assuredly a component of disclosure. A starting point if you will, and seems to me to be perfectly on topic here.

a reply to: Blue Shift

I completely agree with your first statement, of course there is a huge difference in such comparison, Whether we want tigers and bears free roaming in our gardens or not is not a matter of choice, they are already doing that, we need to establish and understanding of them, and how we can perhaps co-exist with other dimensional intruders..

a reply to: tanka418

Data and information are the same thing. Interpretation is One's understanding of said data...

Here:

Data, information, knowledge and wisdom are closely related concepts, but each has its own role in relation to the other. Data is collected and analyzed to create information suitable for making decisions,[3] while knowledge is derived from extensive amounts of experience dealing with information on a subject.

[Edit for brevity. --DJW001]

That is to say, data is the least abstract, information the next least, and knowledge the most.[4] Data becomes information by interpretation; e.g., the height of Mt. Everest is generally considered "data", a book on Mt. Everest geological characteristics may be considered "information", and a report containing practical information on the best way to reach Mt. Everest's peak may be considered "knowledge".
'Information' bears a diversity of meanings that ranges from everyday to technical. Generally speaking, the concept of information is closely related to notions of constraint, communication, control, data, form, instruction, knowledge, meaning, mental stimulus, pattern, perception, and representation.

Any questions?

Yes, DJ this thread is about disclosure, and that is what I've been talking about, and trying to get across...

From the OP:

You say you are ready for disclosure - have an open mind - and already have read and seen enough that you would not be surprised by the government admitting they know, and maybe have even made contact with extraterrestrial entities. This might be true. And you may think the world is ready for disclosure. It is not.

[Emphasis mine. --DJW001]

I have no idea what you have been discussing. It is certainly not what most people here would consider "Disclosure."

a reply to: DJW001

I must say DJW001, that was an almost skilled "weasel".

I have no idea what you have been discussing. It is certainly not what most people here would consider "Disclosure."

What I have been discussing is reality, as contrasted with your "disclosure" fantasy....but, that's okay, you continue...

a reply to: tanka418

Are you beginning to understand the difference between data and information now? Also, rather than dragging the thread off topic, why don't you start one with your analysis of the Hill map if you think it is so important?

QUESTION FOR ALL MEMBERS READING THIS:

WHAT DOES THE EXPRESSION "DISCLOSURE" MEAN TO YOU?

From:
UFO International Project

Wikileaks Have Already Disclosed NASA’s Secret – ALIENS ARE REAL

Isn’t it hard to believe that as little as only two years ago, WikiLeaks released secret cables that actually disclosed information about ETs in our solar system and hardly anybody battered an eyelid! Of course the reason nobody did batter an eyelid is due to the fact the media, like always hushed things up!

The important documents released a couple of years ago by Wikileaks, offered hints about aliens and extraterrestrial presence – Is it coincidental that recently, NASA, who have for along time been accused of hiding alien life, have accepted that we are not alone in the universe and if all goes as planned, we will DEFINITELY meet aliens in a decade or two! (please click HERE for our article on this!).

Wikileaks documents didn’t sadly bring down any of the lying governments or agencies that have deceived us and have implicated in the cover-up, but it did tell us all one VERY important thing, way before NASA breathed a word – that extra-terrestrial life exists.

It is important to note that apart from the important information below on key figures around the world who have admitted the existence of Aliens, many other key figures have recently come out of the wood work confirming the same thing – even Obama’s very own ex- chief advisor, John Podesta, has confirmed the same thing too publically (please click HERE to see more!)

U.I.P Summary
Isnt it amusing how so many important people have declared the existence of Aliens; Astronauts, Politicians, Leading Scientists etc but STILL no official Disclosure!? Surely all of the above statements are Disclosure in themselves unless we are calling these people ‘liars’ which I am pretty damn sure they aren’t!

The media shy away from any leading stories about Aliens and this must be down to one of two reasons!

(1) The Media are controlled by the world Governments, and purposely shy away from such important stories.

(2) The media do not take this matter seriously and like a lot of human beings on this planet, they have also been brainwashed into believing that any discussions about UFOs and Aliens must mean that you are crazy!

See whole article here:
www.ufointernationalproject.com...