UK's negotiations with EU are a sham, says Finnish Foreign Minister

(Hope I'm doing this right, usually I just post a lot of nonsense and poo poo about philosophy or creationism.)

Erkki Tuomioja, Finnish Minister of Foreign Affairs, complains about the EU's lack of legitimacy in the eyes of it's people (Google translated from Swedish). He then goes on to state that Britain has little of importance to gain in the ongoing negotiations. This is merely an act that needs to be played out, he says, so that everyone can seem like they gained something and look good in the eyes of their voters.

The following is my own translation:

"Tuomioja describes [the negotiations] as a "theater play with ready-made lines", where the important thing is that each party can show they have gained something. And so any concessions Great Britain might win will be of little importance.

- Clearly we cannot make changes in the basic treaty, and therefore whatever the British receive will be cosmetic. But if this helps keep the Brits in the union, it is a low price to pay."

Now, posturing like this is the norm in politics, unfortunately. And I'm not even shocked to hear him admit it, in fact I appreciate his honesty. But I bet most British politicians wouldn't admit this, at the moment? Or maybe I'm being naive. He also states that the current welfare in Europe was built on open borders and economical integration.

Yeah, the guy looks like an elderly version of Shaggy from Scooby-Doo. But he's quite sensible, I think. Social democrat though, kind of skeptical to them, personally.

Cameron must be regretting the day he ever promised a Referendum.

I think there could be a Brexit, which being a Bilderberger, if he loses, he will lose the Premiership.

Then we're left with Osborne or Johnson.

Coke head v Knob head.

I'll leave it to you to decide which is which.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Cameron must be regretting the day he ever promised a Referendum.

Why? We need a referendum in the UK on Europe. All European nations should do the same. The EU would certainly change then.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Cameron must be regretting the day he ever promised a Referendum.

Why? We need a referendum in the UK on Europe. All European nations should do the same. The EU would certainly change then.

Oh I agree, but he doesn't want to leave does he?

There's a good chance we will. If we do, he has to resign. Too out of touch with the populous if he loses.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I don't agree. However, he's time limited anyway as he's said he'll not stand at the next election. The fact is, he has an opinion. If the EU are too intransigent to deal, then I'll be glad to leave a club that is losing touch.

I think this is just another step in the march towards the inevitable global economic collapse the UK will leave the EU and it will just help the screw up things just a little bit more.

Now don't get me wrong, i am no fan of the EU, but i am also a realist the world is ending our economy i believe is going to shatter super powers will become third world states and in effort fix this sorry mess there will be War.

Just read this, its quite haunting.

Europe at war 2018

Unfortunately due to the British media there will be a massive push to create fear of an exit. It will be very vocal about job losses etc.
People in today's society belive what is on the main news and follow like lemmings to their obvious doom.

It's becoming clearer that the media around the world has become well controlled at the highest levels.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The story was written in 2011 and by this point had Miliband as PM and French troops in Italy. Think I will still be able to sleep tonight after reading it.

That is not to say I think peace in Europe is a given but Daily Mail scare stories are just that stories. I assume there was no new cause of cancer or dementia for them to make up, sorry report on that day,

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I think this is just another step in the march towards the inevitable global economic collapse the UK will leave the EU and it will just help the screw up things just a little bit more.

Now don't get me wrong, i am no fan of the EU, but i am also a realist the world is ending our economy i believe is going to shatter super powers will become third world states and in effort fix this sorry mess there will be War.

Any country that wants to protect their own economy and standard

of living, which they have worked hard, and strived for is not going to be

happy (and who can blame them?) at the influx of third world economic

migrants which by its very demands is going to water down their economy

and standards of living.

I'm all for leaving but I wouldn't be surprised if a bit of vote fixing occurs.

Its the young who will vote to stay they have been brainwashed from being young. The older Brits remember a time before when the UK was a far different place most will vote to leave. So it will be old generation against young.a reply to: LostThePlot

originally posted by: LostThePlot
I'm all for leaving but I wouldn't be surprised if a bit of vote fixing occurs.

If they don't get the result they want they will just have another

referendum as they have done before. LOL!!


www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: Subnatural

I think that a lot of people know this is nothing but a sham because Cameron has got little back, is untrustworthy and only has the needs of the elite at heart, not the ordinary public.

What we do know is that without the huge sums of money Britain puts into the EU there will be a lot of difficulties for the EU with that loss of cash flow.

I suspect Europe has more need of Britain than Britain has for the EU. Any idea that European companies won't trade or invest etc when they can make a profit and have a good chance of getting all their invoices paid by a fairly solvent country is living in cloud cookoo land.

originally posted by: Shiloh7



What we do know is that without the huge sums of money Britain puts into the EU there will be a lot of difficulties for the EU with that loss of cash flow.

I suspect Europe has more need of Britain than Britain has for the EU. Any idea that European companies won't trade or invest etc when they can make a profit and have a good chance of getting all their invoices paid by a fairly solvent country is living in cloud cookoo land.

All who say we cannot do without Europe. If we leave they are

frightened of our leaving because it has been said that then Europe will

start to disintergrate. Some of them namely Greece will breathe a sigh

of relief as I think they have been well and truly screwed!!


One of the best decisions made by UK was to keep the £.

www.theguardian.com...


It is they that need us more than we need them!!

Not to worry, the Con Government are committed to tying our economy to that of China's, instead of Europes. Because China totally isn't on the crest of a huge bubble that's going to burst spectacularly one day soon.

Also Osbourne himself has said they are committed to transforming the UK into a china-style economy.

And lord knows they can't do that while British workers are protected by the EU human rights and employment legislations.

Leave the EU, strip workers of their rights, and transform the UK into China Mk2. That's the plan it seems.

a reply to: Shiloh7

I don't really know much about British politics or Cameron, so I wont comment on his trustworthiness, but I can imagine it is lacking, yeah.

But yes, Britain is certainly a net payer in the EU, like the Nordic countries too, to some extent. People here have sort of forgotten about that at the moment, everyone is worried about the refugees. But the problems in Greece for example haven't really been resolved at all. I really like the basic idea of the EU actually, but it will be hard to keep it all together (let alone move towards a federation) when the economy gets worse, which I'm pretty sure it will. It's too much to ask of the people, that they make sacrifices with little hope of return.

All it takes is one country exiting and then the flood gates are open. Could be Greece if Britain stays. They were hopeful for a while, but the promises of Tsipras and company turned to nothing. Now whole families are out of jobs, people living with no heating. I read the state of their dental health has reverted back to what it was in the 50's. People just can't afford dentists. The place is turning into a third world country. And the EU's assistance only delays the inevitable. The system is broken at the moment.

And yeah, I'm sure companies would still invest in Britain. Unless the EU uses some kind of sanctions against you, but that sounds crazy. But I'm no economist, so not sure about how the details would work out.

a reply to: Subnatural

I know Tuomioja personally. He used to be good guy, but I think lately as he is getting older, he has not been that firm with his opinions and dealings. He seems to be concerned now that the flow of refugees in EU could hasten the dissolution of the EU, because the "elites" (as he says it) doesn't know how to deal with it. Besides if the Britss are leaving the EU, this might bring the final stroke for EU.

a reply to: Suanna

This is interesting. I think I really need to start following Finnish politics better, haven't really heard what he has to say lately, apart from this article I happened to read.

But are you saying he is wrong about the flow of refugees destabilizing the EU? I can imagine this creates tensions between the members. Although it could potentially tie them together too I guess, if they feel there is a common threat. Or maybe you think the question is not that important, that could be too.

It's also interesting that he uses the word "elites", although in Finnish that word isn't as strongly anti-establishment as in English language conspiracy theory circles, I think.

Heh, I just read his blog and he is posting some sort of anti-imperialist, anti-American poetry by Pablo Neruda. Gotta love those old school leftists.

Reply to Subnatural

I think the people have been brain washed into believing that Europe is the

centre of the universe, the be all and end all of everything.

They forget there's a big world out there ....

# America North and South

# Canada

# Australia

# New Zealand

# Asia inc. Russia

# China

# Africa

# Japan

# Middle East

# Iran has just had the sanctions lifted

You cant tell me we wont be unable to trade with, if not all, some of them?

a reply to: eletheia

Ha! That's a very good point I think. I think you're preaching to the choir.

I wouldn't say they have been brainwashed though, they just got accustomed to being the center of the world (especially the French, and the Germans, to a much lesser extent) for a few hundred years, when some European countries ruled the world. Including Britain, and I do think Britain is part of Europe. And even in the last century, the US guarded our backs, and kept us going. But that might be changing sooner or later, of course. And even Britain has lost it's empire now (I assume you are British, sorry if I'm wrong.)

But yeah, I agree that there are a lot of options, maybe it didn't seem like that from my earlier posts. I certainly don't claim the British need the EU. You need some cooperation of course, but I don't know how much.

In the end, the fact that some countries benefit more from the union than others might be it's undoing. It's easy to be optimistic and have high ideals, but when the world changes it may be necessary to change those ideals. This applies more to the elite than the people though.

Still, I think Europeans have a lot of common values. And it would be cool to have some unity, in the face of the rest of the world, and in a world that becomes ever more globalized. With the Americans as our friends.