Bible And Quran Text Analysis Reveals 'Violence' More Common In Old And New Testament.

I didn't want to post this.
I read it days ago and decided against it, I even decided against it a couple of hours ago...
That was until I read a recent thread.


I'm not into oneupmanship at all, and I have no disrespect intended towards Christianity, Christians, or their Holy Book....



But numerous times in the thread on the front page, people have been saying the Noble Quran is more violent and hate filled than the O&N Testements.


This is false.

Proven this week by a guy named Tom Anderson.

The study showed that...

Killing and destruction are referenced slightly more often in the New Testament (2.8%) than in the Quran (2.1%), but the Old Testament clearly leads—more than twice that of the Quran—in mentions of destruction and killing (5.3%).”

Now if we could do away with this false narrative & learn the facts about "opposing" Faiths, I'd be pleasantly surprised.
But I don't hold out much hope for that during discourse.

m.huffpost.com...


The more you know...

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Islam is one of the greatest steps to world peace imo.

About Tom's statistics: do they include the conversion campaigns used to distribute the word of the Messenger?
Some seem to have been less than amicable. Still worth it.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Actions speak louder than words Charlie so whether one is a christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or other, all their associated scripture is Words.

How we act on those words defines us as an individual and is our Karma.

a reply to: wisvol

It doesn't include conversion campaigns, which both Faiths are marred in a disgusting history of such at certain parts of Time itself.

Interesting side note, contrary to popular opinion, Ghandi is said to a have claimed that Islam was not spread by the sword at its machination, but by the character of the Prophet Muhammad.

Mohandas KaramchandGandhi (1869-1948) Indian thinker, statesman, and nationalist leader.

q "....I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for� Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These, and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every trouble."� [Young India (periodical), 1928, Volume X]

www.al-islam.org...

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Yes absolutely, I agree...

But I took it upon myself to presume that forwarding false narratives is in of itself an action, and therefore in need of rectifying.

But you're 100% spot on as usual.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Where is this 2.8% found in the NT?

Let me guess... Revelation?

a couple small incidents in Acts...

can't think of much else...

Do the comparative magnitudes or frequencies of violence make any Abrahamic religion any more valid than another?

Of course they don't. If you're taking the position that all violence is wrong, what difference does a few statistical points make one way or the other?

"See, my religion doesn't kill as much as yours, so mine is better."

Or you have the people that will exalt anything that casts Christianity in a negative light. This story has been making the rounds among both groups.

Is there any other reason this would matter other to have an Abrahamic pissing contest or to trash Christianity?

"Well, you see death is mentioned 1.5% less than..." yeah, yeah. Point being?

a reply to: NthOther

"See, my religion doesn't kill as much as yours, so mine is better."

Couldn't be further from my actual point.

My point is I do not lie about Christianity on these boards or elsewhere, please be kind enough to do unto others as you wish they would do unto you, and not lie about my Faith.

a reply to: NthOther

Or you have the people that will exalt anything that casts Christianity in a negative light. This story has been making the rounds among both groups.

I think the OP is a step in showing how "both groups" are actually one.

"See, my religion doesn't kill as much as yours, so mine is better."

I didn't sense any such idea in the OP either, rather a demonstration that the claims of links between Islam and masked terrorists may be and in fact are entirely fabricated, which is much more important that trite pissing contests anyway.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I didn't mean that you believe that or were saying that. I do believe that people who think that way are the ones who will latch onto this story as a "see, told you so" kinda thing.

The Gotcha People.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Ok so you are on to us and we are really bad ass in a violent way . Convert or off with your head . :>)

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

.I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for� Islam in those days

Ghandi

Thanks.

Of course since we agreed Islam is intrinsically peaceful and good, the Messenger and his own followers during his lifetime, as expressed by your noble source, would not be the source of violence during proselytism, but leadership by example.

I asked about Tom's statistics in a playful way because his claims are ridiculous.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Killing and destruction are referenced slightly more often in the New Testament (2.8%) than in the Quran (2.1%)

First, I would like to point out, Jesus neither ran around killing anyone, nor did he order his followers to do so. As a matter of fact, you won't find either Jesus nor any of his followers committing murder in the name of the faith. All but one of the apostles was killed for his faith, and Jesus was killed also. The majority of the later followers of Christianity were also either imprisoned or killed, and not once in earliest Christianity, where you find the closest followers to Jesus and the teachings thereof, do you find any one killing - being killed yes, killing no.

This is not true with Mohammed. The Quran, on top of ordering the followers of Islam to kill and behead all those who you cannot subjugate under the banner of this politicized religion, you have the leader and supposed prophet being among the most murderous. Then you have his rightly guided caliphs killing in order to further the religion as well. Even killing family members of Mohammed.

So.. there are stark differences, and these differences are spelled out clearly by people who lived in the modern day under the banner of Islam, in countries like Saudia Arabia and Morocco. So, we find, little has changed from what the Quran says, to the behavior of Mohammed, to the teachings of Sheikhs all over the Islamic world today.

Saying that an evil ruler like Herod, who was never a Christian nor a follower of Jesus, killed children, is not any sort of proof that Christianity promotes or teaches violence. Killing those who disagree with your religion or would not submit to your religion is not found in the teachings of Jesus, quite the opposite.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 spells out the difference quite clearly, to Islamic teachings.

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. Purge the evil person from among you.

The Christian is commanded not to associate ourselves with Hypocritical Christians, and leave the judging of non-Christians to God himself - a clear contrast to kill the unbelievers wherever you find them passage found in the Quran.

www1.cbn.com...




And before you think its just ex-Muslims who became Christians with this point of view, its agnostic ex-Muslims as well

I say that if I were to become the supreme leader of the free world I will build a big beautiful wall between Muslim countries and non-Muslim countries and will make Muslims pay for it. Unlike Trumps wall mine will have no doors and no windows and will be as tall as the stratosphere so no plane can fly over it. I have been calling for the secession of all ties with Muslims for years.

When you stop Islamic expansion Muslims turn to each other and will start killing one another. This is not such a bad thing after all considering the alternative which is killing us. Eventually the survivors will come to their senses and will leave Islam. If we keep them at bay at least we will be saved. Leave Muslims alone. Build the wall and don’t peep inside. Let them do what they do best. i.e., killing each other.

I support Trump’s proposal wholeheartedly even if it may prevent me to travel to USA. The point is not to ban Muslims, because it would not be practical in the long run, but to raise an important and ignored issue that there is a problem with Islam and we need to address it. We have been ignoring this problem for 1400 years and Islam has kept growing. The very first people who had to address this problem were the Meccans. They didn’t and as the result the world is paying the price. Time has come to get to the bottom of this problem and nothing more than a crisis will do it.

The key in Trump’s speech is “until we find out what the hell is going on.” Well you and I know what the hell is going on but the world does not. It is up to us to explain it to others. The problem is not people, but the ideology, the religion that inspire these people. The problem is the Quran and the belief in a psychopath mass murderer.

www.faithfreedom.org...

So, it is you who need to open their eyes - and stop making excuses for a very real problem in Islam.

a reply to: Kitana

I find it interesting that a group of Islamic scholars would get together in this day and age and produce a document such as this one .....

In the Name of God, the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate

Executive Summary of the Marrakesh Declaration on the Rights of Religious Minorities in

Predominantly Muslim Majority Communities

25th-27th January 2016

WHEREAS, conditions in various parts of the Muslim World have deteriorated dangerously due to the use of violence and armed struggle as a tool for settling conflicts and imposing one's point of view;

WHEREAS, this situation has also weakened the authority of legitimate governments and enabled criminal groups to issue edicts attributed to Islam, but which, in fact, alarmingly distort its fundamental principles and goals in ways that have seriously harmed the population as a whole;

WHEREAS, this year marks the 1,400th anniversary of the Charter of Medina, a constitutional contract between the Prophet Muhammad, God's peace and blessings be upon him, and the people of Medina, which guaranteed the religious liberty of all, regardless of faith;

WHEREAS, hundreds of Muslim scholars and intellectuals from over 120 countries, along with representatives of Islamic and international organizations, as well as leaders from diverse religious groups and nationalities, gathered in Marrakesh on this date to reaffirm the principles of the Charter of Medina at a major conference;

WHEREAS, this conference was held under the auspices of His Majesty, King Mohammed VI of Morocco, and organized jointly by the Ministry of Endowment and Islamic Affairs in the Kingdom of Morocco and the Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies based in the United Arab Emirates;

AND NOTING the gravity of this situation afflicting Muslims as well as peoples of other faiths throughout the world, and after thorough deliberation and discussion, the convened Muslim scholars and intellectuals:

DECLARE HEREBY our firm commitment to the principles articulated in the Charter of Medina, whose provisions contained a number of the principles of constitutional contractual citizenship, such as freedom of movement, property ownership, mutual solidarity and defense, as well as principles of justice and equality before the law; and that,

The objectives of the Charter of Medina provide a suitable framework for national constitutions in countries with Muslim majorities, and the United Nations Charter and related documents, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, are in harmony with the Charter of Medina, including consideration for public order.

NOTING FURTHER that deep reflection upon the various crises afflicting humanity underscores the inevitable and urgent need for cooperation among all religious groups, we

AFFIRM HEREBY that such cooperation must be based on a "Common Word," requiring that such cooperation must go beyond mutual tolerance and respect, to providing full protection for the rights and liberties to all religious groups in a civilized manner that eschews coercion, bias, and arrogance.

BASED ON ALL OF THE ABOVE, we hereby: Call upon Muslim scholars and intellectuals around the world to develop a jurisprudence of the concept of "citizenship" which is inclusive of diverse groups. Such jurisprudence shall be rooted in Islamic tradition and principles and mindful of global changes.

Urge Muslim educational institutions and authorities to conduct a courageous review of educational curricula that addresses honestly and effectively any material that instigates aggression and extremism, leads to war and chaos, and results in the destruction of our shared societies;

Call upon politicians and decision makers to take the political and legal steps necessary to establish a constitutional contractual relationship among its citizens, and to support all formulations and initiatives that aim to fortify relations and understanding among the various religious groups in the Muslim World;

Call upon the educated, artistic, and creative members of our societies, as well as organizations of civil society, to establish a broad movement for the just treatment of religious minorites in Muslim countries and to raise awareness as to their rights, and to work together to ensure the success of these efforts.

Call upon the various religious groups bound by the same national fabric to address their mutual state of selective amnesia that blocks memories of centuries of joint and shared living on the same land; we call upon them to rebuild the past by reviving this tradition of conviviality, and restoring our shared trust that has been eroded by extremists using acts of terror and aggression;

Call upon representatives of the various religions, sects and denominations to confront all forms of religious bigotry, villification, and denegration of what people hold sacred, as well as all speech that promote hatred and bigotry;

AND FINALLY, AFFIRM that it is unconscionable to employ religion for the purpose of aggressing upon the rights of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

Marrakesh

January 27th, 2016

would it be a fair assessment to think that there were some very serious issues inside Islam to create such a thing ? Now I am sure we can de-construct from the text as to what they were addressing even if you didnt reade the news or even owned a TV . Maybe these things are not so clear or understandable from the Koran or the teachers with the job to teach but to think there was or is a problem is to be wilfully ignorant to some very desterbing facts about Islam .

Its so sad I have to explain this


Old Testament is Judaism

Koran is Muslim

New Testament is Christian

Three different books.

Christianity follows on from Judaism, they are not the same religion

The Koran teaches the worship of a moon god Allah

Just on the violence, it a violent world, God is just in carrying out violence, its Gods justice.

There is a storm coming and it will be more violent than you can imagine, what you sow you will reap.

Don't worry about past violence, prepare for the future

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I don't think the holy books are the problem per se.

It's the interpretation of them that is causing the problems.

There are plenty of very nice, reasonable Muslim folk out there as there are mostly meek and mild Christians.

It's the groups like ISIS, Boko Haram and Al Qaeda that are the issue.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yes i would agree that there are some very serious issues inside Islam that led to the creation of that document. I agree that it is only through willful ignorance that anyone could overlook these facts.

There is another problem with the document though, because only time will tell how this initiative pans out, as it seems many at that conference were more concerned with how Islam is perceived, than with actually working toward making those changes.

The conference drew speakers from around the world, including representatives from various governments and non-Muslim communities.

Some of those who attended were previously affiliated with Islamist organizations or beliefs. The organizer, bin Bayyah himself, said in the past that contributions to jihadi fighters count as charity and that Muslims should support Hamas financially. He was also former vice chairman of the International Union of Muslim Scholars, which in 2004 issued a fatwa imposing a “duty on every able Muslim in and outside of Iraq” to carry out and support attacks on American soldiers.

The conference also seemed to be very concerned with Islam’s reputation, rather than securing the rights of victims of oppression.

“Muslims have to show that certain events which are happening under the guise of Islam are driven or prompted by considerations which have nothing to do with religion,” King Mohammed said in his statement.

This could have been positive if it motivated the attendees of the conference to implement equal rights for both Muslims and non-Muslims and to deconstruct the extremist ideologies that foster discrimination.

Given bin Bayyah organized the conference it is too early to tell if that is possible.

Link


I do support those who are trying so hard to change the hearts of minds of their ex-coreligionists and coreligionists though. Often at risk to their own lives.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Just on the violence, it a violent world, God is just in carrying out violence, its Gods justice.

I would love to see how God carries out violent justice. That is just excuse making for the religious nutbars who think they are doing God's work and are really just mental.

a reply to: Kitana

Like what Christianity states is you will know them by their works .Passing the buck and pointing fingers away from the problem that is within is just lame .

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No

That's how you understand it

Christianity teaches God is the purveyor of justice, its not mans to carry out.
God will pass judgement in His own time

Remember Jesus passed on laws to Christians not the world, the world has made its own laws

As for those Christians who carry out their own justice, this is not in accordance to Christs teachings.