UK Church Hosts 'Blasphemous' Play Portraying Jesus as Transexual Woman for Queer Festival

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Nothing like a Christian judging others on how they practice their religion. Good times.

PS: Transsexualism and homosexuality aren't the same thing.

Sounds to me it's more judging the church leaders who let this happen in a church who considers this blasphemy. If you want to rent a play house go to it.

Apparently THIS church doesn't consider it blasphemy. Only outraged Christians who have nothing to do with the church seem to think so.

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's irrelevant what Christians believe is a sin, if they want to follow Christ/God then they have to believe his word and what we are told not to do.

The bible is clear.

However from a biblical perspective homosexuality is not an unforgivable one as long as per all sin we repent. Neither do I see any scripture that instructs any persecution. Christians are told to use scripture to point out Gods word and correct false teachings and actions etc. But not to bully and persecute.

The fact this play is in a church is completely wrong, goes against what is portrayed Christ was and has a mocking tone, in my opinion. This is despite the writers assertion it was not meant to be sacreligious and only to challenge prejudice.

Considering churches can't even bother to get the picture of Christ correct, I doubt that putting on this play that offends you there is really that much worse than how Christians have perverted Christ's teachings already.

Well this could have been done another way. Adhering to the word of God and pointing out the word of God cannot be prejudicial to another Christian. For a Christian to upset in the manner of hurt pride, by the word of God is by definition offended by the word of God.

Really? I think it was done exactly the way they wanted it to be done. Why should you have any say on how they practice Christianity? Freedom of religion and all that. Believe it or not, SOME Christians have found it in their hearts to accept homosexuals and the LGBTQ community at large COMPLETELY as humans and non-sinful.

You cannot love God and be offended by his word

Regards

You think so? How many disobedient children have you stoned lately?

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

originally posted by: s3cz0ne
Imagine a fundamentalist Christian group performing a biblical play emphasizing its stance on homosexuality and then extentending that to Trans people in a LGBT community center? It would be torn apart and hated. Accusations of bigotry, homophobia and transphobia(is that a word?) would apply. The above hypothetical would be equally disrespectful.

I'm sure such a play would be heavily criticized, but if the community center consented, then I don't see a problem?

I don't think it's a good comparison though. Was the 'transsexual play' condemning Christianity? From what I read in the article it sounded like a fairly harmless bunch of LGBTQ tropes. I think a better analogy would a play where Caitlyn Jenner is portrayed as an extremely masculine and heterosexual man, or something like that.

Christians don't have a monopoly on Christianity, you know. It's part of our cultural heritage, even this Jo Clifford's, whether she likes it or not. So she has the right to make art about it and discuss it. And if the church invites her play, or agrees to have it performed there, then it's none of my business, or yours.

Not saying you can't debate it and have a different opinion, I like debating these things, obviously.

This is in the uk where most Christians seem to be more liberally minded than your American Christians. My only openly Christian friend is my only gay friend

a reply to: DeathSlayer

By their fruits you shall know them.

It is apparent now, if it was not before, that the catholic church has nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ, it preaches a doctrine other than the one given us by Jesus - but as they are outside the church (congregations who are followers of Jesus) they are not our problem to deal with or concern ourselves with. God will deal with them however He sees fit, and it is not our problem.

I trust God through His Holy Spirit will guide His own into gatherings of the followers of Jesus. He will not allow any of His own to be lost.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Eyup
Still not offended. There were reasons for the rules in the Old Testament. We have rules today. Even in secular society. Here in the uk, there is no longer a death penalty, there is all over the world though. As a nation we deem it is wrong. The U.S do not as it still goes on.

The above scripture refers basically to a totally Godless person, has no regard for God and in all has rejected his way. a person rejecting God is basically following the world, the world the dominion of Satan and therefore following him. The bible is clear on this.

This is isn't a stoning of someone that on occasion rebels.

Regards

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Eyup
Still not offended. There were reasons for the rules in the Old Testament. We have rules today. Even in secular society. Here in the uk, there is no longer a death penalty, there is all over the world though. As a nation we deem it is wrong. The U.S do not as it still goes on.

The above scripture refers basically to a totally Godless person, has no regard for God and in all has rejected his way. a person rejecting God is basically following the world, the world the dominion of Satan and therefore following him. The bible is clear on this.

This is isn't a stoning of someone that on occasion rebels.

Regards

So we should stone atheists is what you are saying? I'm glad we don't listen to the bible anymore if THAT was acceptable and you'd defend it as acceptable.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I think you need to grow up a little. If that was what was asked of us we would be at it all the time. If you want to understand what the bible says and means. Repent of your sins, see the Ten Commandments initially for they may be and shout for Christ and ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you read it. Read it all. not a passage here and there to construct whatever you want from it.

Context, location, time as is such for many things.

Regards

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Don't listen to the bible?

Do you steal then?
Give false witness in a court of law?
Do you conduct murder?

Pick n mix when it suits my friend.

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I think you need to grow up a little. If that was what was asked of us we would be at it all the time. If you want to understand what the bible says and means. Repent of your sins, see the Ten Commandments initially for they may be and shout for Christ and ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you read it. Read it all. not a passage here and there to construct whatever you want from it.

Context, location, time as is such for many things.

Regards

Hey, I'm not the one justifying murdering children because they don't believe in your mythological hero.

originally posted by: drevill
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Don't listen to the bible?

Do you steal then?
Give false witness in a court of law?
Do you conduct murder?

Pick n mix when it suits my friend.

The bible isn't the only source for those laws you know? The Code of Hammurabi predates the bible by a good couple millennia and it has all those laws in it. So if anything, I'm listening to that and still not the Bible. Though you are just stretching a premise here since I'm really just listening to the rule of law of the United States.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

A good couple of millennia?.

Considering Gods law existed before the exodus tablets. This is incorrect.

Ok going on that if that is what you live by

Adultery? Death
Kidnap? Death
Dodgy building? Death
Adoption slide parents? Cut out tongue
Hit dad chop off hand
Receive/buy stolen goods death
It advocates cutting out eyes off breasts, hands and breaking bones

Law 2

Textany one bring an accusation against a man, and the accused go to the river and leap into the river, if he sink in the river his accuser shall take possession of his house. But if the river prove that the accused is not guilty, and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser.2

Yeah he seem to remember the same thing for witches.

a reply to: drevill

Though you are just stretching a premise here since I'm really just listening to the rule of law of the United States.

originally posted by: rollanotherone
a reply to: s3cz0ne

It really seems you do have issues with most everybody. Also, you describe the LGBT community as shoving their beliefs down your throat. That's hypocrisy right there.

No I have issues with institutionalized morality, whatever it may be. As the father of an almost four year old girl it is daunting to think that one day she may share a locker room with a BIOLOGICAL male that identifies as a female. Again I do not have issues with everybody. I don't agree with Christian theology, but as long as it's kept within their own non-public institutions than more power to them. I won't tell anybody what they should believe, my cavaet however is that I don't wish to be told what to believe. And no I'm not some extreme right winger. I hold some views that might be considered libertarian, like my views on the second. Others would be considered anathema as I believe in a new "New Deal" and I think wall Street speculators should pay for it. So please don't come on to this thread and state that it appears that I have issues with everyone because I certainly do not.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Very true. In fact the Pope even weighed in with his "Who am I to judge?" comment. This just seems a bit anathema to church teaching and doctrine. A teaching and doctrine with which I disagree BTW.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Well clearly this church disagrees with that teaching and doctrine as well since they allowed the play to be performed at the church.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: s3cz0ne

Well clearly this church disagrees with that teaching and doctrine as well since they allowed the play to be performed at the church.

The Church in question is "St Chrysostom's church in Manchester" according to the OP. A Google search turns up the following on what is most likely the same organization's website:

"St C's is a welcoming, inclusive and vibrant Anglican church, of the Catholic tradition, serving the Church of England Parish of Victoria Park, we are at the heart of our community in south Manchester, not far from the city centre and close to Manchester University.

Everyone is welcome to worship with us @StC"

www.stchrysostoms.co.uk...

This seems odd in and of itself. An Anglican Church in the Catholic tradition hosting an LGBT play? A play that one would assume, both devout Anglicans and Catholics, would likely find offensive and against their beliefs. I don't find it all that offensive myself, rather it's an odd venue and seems to be something that could, and likely, to offend devout Christians of many varieties. Again, I stand by my comparison of a Biblical play(maybe Sodom and Gomorrah?) being performed at the local LGBT community center. Perhaps this Church is more in line with Unitarian thought. If so they are not Anglicans in the Catholic tradition. I just wish everyone would be honest. As I've said before; live and let live.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Maybe next week they can have pornographic movies with hookers. They can throw a few cots up for the hookers and also maybe sell pizza and beer?

If I'm not mistaken, Jesus hung out with prostitutes. He also turned water into wine, so the alcohol is covered. Food too, for he can feed the multitudes at this hooker party you've suggested.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Love it!

a reply to: s3cz0ne

Well MAYBE, in this instance, it would be best to talk to the parish or the ministers to get the best information available instead of just randomly using the internet. I'm sure they would be the best source to get to the bottom of this issue. The Christian religion hasn't been fast to embrace technology, it's a wonder why you'd think that solving a conundrum involving this religion with something advanced like the internet would work adequately. Especially in the case of a specific ministry's beliefs regarding the religion.

Seeing as how the interpretation of the bible is subject to change from person to person, it isn't inconceivable that a specific church would have beliefs contrary to the mainstream beliefs of its denomination. Such things are usually called cults, but in this specific case, there are quite a few Christian denominations that tolerate and even accept gays as who they are and not as sinners.