Money doesn't corrupt people, people corrupt people.

The systems that we use are not neutral. Money is not neutral because it enables the accumulation of wealth, and by this fact alone money is not neutral. Playing musical chairs is not a neutral game, the game and the participants must assume that there are not enough chairs for every one, regardless of the real number of chairs available. The pyramidal shaped system is not a neutral system, because by the sole fact that it is shaped like a pyramid, there must be people on top and people at the bottom that support the top, etc.. The examples are endless.

I feel that it's not the money itself that is corrupt, it's the system we have created and allowed to grow stagnant.
Our entire economy is based upon lies...allow me to explain.

We beLIEve that we need wars, because we are told we do.

We beLIEve that our votes decide outcomes, in spite of the admission of otherwise, by those running the show.

We beLIEve that our food is safe, in spite of the use of chemical pesticides and changes to our natural ecosystems.

We beLIEve our water is safe, because those in charge of it care about our well-being.

We beLIEve that Big Pharma knows what's best for us, in spite of suppression and buried studies showing other options.

We beLIEve in the media, because questioning it is scary for many people.


Basically, we beLIEve in a whole lot of LIES affecting all of us on a daily basis, and do you know why?


It is because Every. Single. Person's. Job. (and the monetary compensation we reap) is based upon KEEPING THE LIES ALIVE. There is no profit to be had in truth.

It we told the absolute truth about all of the above - the unemployment rates would be off the freaking charts.

We live in a pyramid scheme of lies - which has sadly resulted in the majority having Stockholm syndrome.

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(After writing the above I found myself pondering - IS profit even needed or just the lie we tell ourselves to keep the status quo? Hmmm.)

At any rate, we need to stop listening to the can't, wouldn't, couldn't, shouldn't mindsets - as they are defeatist, dismissive and not conducive towards the creation of new thought processes.

I feel what is needed is a system where all can take pride in their life - versus our current system of some taking pride in themselves over another, which is essentially what excess, greed and hoarding of resources boils down to IMO.

I love the ideas that have been posted already - if we seek to create a system that works for all people, all that is truly needed is desire and vision. Though I think that disassembling the current system of lies is paramount - and the challenge is in discerning a smooth transition.

This world is ever changing and nothing is static, the direction we head depends solely upon the limits we place upon our evolvement.

originally posted by: WhiteWingedMonolith
I think if people liked their jobs and were paid well and didn't have to worry about the basic necessities, with those being of superior quality, not cheap or ghetto/barrack style, who could also remain single or be single again, and not forced into staying in a relationship due to no quality employment options available to them, that many would behave differently in a positive way. This would give humanity time to see who the real trouble makers are and begin to take steps to address their problems.

You are a kindred spirit indeed, WhiteWingedMonolith - I love your vision.

originally posted by: GreenGunther
Raise a human to feel compassion, care and love and that is what he will do every single day of his life.

Raise a child to be confused by the world around him, complicated concepts that make a broken system inch along.. Money, politics, police brutality, religion, war, conspiracies etc. And that human will likely be confused and end up hurting himself and others as he tries to find his place in this broken system.

It's easy to raise a healthy child, it's very difficult to fix a broken adult.

Eloquently stated, GreenGunther - we need to look at those broken adults with compassion, and as the result of a broken society.
When we know better, we can do better.

originally posted by: gosseyn
The systems that we use are not neutral. Money is not neutral because it enables the accumulation of wealth, and by this fact alone money is not neutral. Playing musical chairs is not a neutral game, the game and the participants must assume that there are not enough chairs for every one, regardless of the real number of chairs available. The pyramidal shaped system is not a neutral system, because by the sole fact that it is shaped like a pyramid, there must be people on top and people at the bottom that support the top, etc.. The examples are endless.

Very true gosseyn. The pyramid system behooves the well-being of the ones at the top, but only on the backs of those doing the work at the bottom. I've often wondered if things are this way because if everyone progressed, they perhaps fear the competition. However if they looked at it instead as collective progression, they might find they like what they see in the advancement of the world around them.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed
People want utopia. It sounds awesome on paper. Problem is that is just not how humans are wired. There will always be someone bigger, stronger, and smarter who will take advantage of people who are smaller, weaker, and dumber.

See, I think that is part of the problem. Some people DO see themselves as "bigger, stronger, and smarter" - perhaps it is -they- that have some personal growth to do, so that they desire MORE from life than "taking advantage of people".

Personally I have never met anyone whom I've considered "smaller, weaker, and dumber". People from all walks of life and all cultures have something to offer - if one but listens.

Utopia won't be built in a day, but neither was Rome. I just don't see remaining stagnant an option, when we collectively strive for better than our basic nature, we will be headed in the right direction.

Money is just a more efficient form of barter. Money does not cause greed. Greed is just a natural condition of man.

If there were no money, people would still be killing each other to take more resources.

This utopia that some of you all want simply does not and cannot exist. Time to grow up.

originally posted by: Edumakated
If there were no money, people would still be killing each other to take more resources.

Money offers hundreds of ways more to exploit people and put them under psychic pressure to achieve the same goal. Read: take more ressources. They just don't even need a sword anymore, but achieve the same goal with money. What you have in everday's lives is psychic warfare. Competition for education and jobs. Exploiting others to take more resouces. Eat or be eaten. Survival of the fittest.

originally posted by: anotherdaytoday

originally posted by: Edumakated
If there were no money, people would still be killing each other to take more resources.

Money offers hundreds of ways more to exploit people and put them under psychic pressure to achieve the same goal. Read: take more ressources. They just don't even need a sword anymore, but achieve the same goal with money. What you have in everday's lives is psychic warfare. Competition for education and jobs. Exploiting others to take more resouces. Eat or be eaten. Survival of the fittest.

It has always been that way. It wasn't like there was a time in the past where everyone was connected to nature, sat around campfires singing kumbaya, while unicorns ran through a pasture of plenty in the background.

Stronger, smarter, and less moral people have always taken advantage of dumber, weaker, and moral people. ALWAYS. Some village has a better crop than you? No problem, we will just raid it and rape their women while we are at it.

Life is brutal.

See, the problem we have is, that we haven't even integrity in a nation itself. Not even amongst families and friends. If you got quarrel, it's always about money and resources. Now think about a society with equal distribution of wealth.
Yeah, maybe this nation would still brutally conquer other nations for resources, but at least this nation would be stable within itself. Our current nations aren't even stable within themselves. The sh#t is steaming all around.

originally posted by: anotherdaytoday
See, the problem we have is, that we haven't even integrity in a nation itself. Not even amongst families and friends. If you got quarrel, it's always about money and resources. Now think about a society with equal distribution of wealth.
Yeah, maybe this nation would still brutally conquer other nations for resources, but at least this nation would be stable within itself. Our current nations aren't even stable within themselves. The sh#t is steaming all around.

There is no equal distribution of wealth because people are never fully equal. You can redistribute all the wealth so that everyone has $1 million dollars. In less than week, some people would be billionaires again and others would be owe $1 million dollars. We'd be right back to where we are now.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: anotherdaytoday

originally posted by: Edumakated
If there were no money, people would still be killing each other to take more resources.

Money offers hundreds of ways more to exploit people and put them under psychic pressure to achieve the same goal. Read: take more ressources. They just don't even need a sword anymore, but achieve the same goal with money. What you have in everday's lives is psychic warfare. Competition for education and jobs. Exploiting others to take more resouces. Eat or be eaten. Survival of the fittest.

It has always been that way. It wasn't like there was a time in the past where everyone was connected to nature, sat around campfires singing kumbaya, while unicorns ran through a pasture of plenty in the background.

Stronger, smarter, and less moral people have always taken advantage of dumber, weaker, and moral people. ALWAYS. Some village has a better crop than you? No problem, we will just raid it and rape their women while we are at it.

Life is brutal.

That's a ridiculous argument. So following your logic :
- we shouldn't try to explore the universe or colonize other planets because we have always lived on this planet Earth
- we shouldn't have abolished slavery because slavery always existed
- we shouldn't have discovered and integrated electricity because... people always lived without electricity
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.

A real-size medieval castle built with feces is still just a big pile of feces

originally posted by: Edumakated
There is no equal distribution of wealth because people are never fully equal. You can redistribute all the wealth so that everyone has $1 million dollars. In less than week, some people would be billionaires again and others would be owe $1 million dollars. We'd be right back to where we are now.

That's because you think money must exist in a society. But it doesn't. You can distribute wealth by resources that cannot be sold or bought by law of the state (including houses, food, etc.). You can build a state on communism and distribution of goods.

While there will never be 100% equality in resource distribution either you can make life enjoyable for everyone, and not a struggle to survive, a competition for the next best job and other idiocracies. Act like a civilization, not like barbarism.

People often talk of evolving beyond our "greed for money" but what role has "greed for money" had in our own evolution? It's created Empires caused wars and propelled technology. I'm not sure you would even be reading this if it wasn't the Greed of your ISP.

But how do we measure "Greed"? When is enough enough and who draws the line? Am I greedy for wanting AirCon in my car? It not essential to my survival but does not compare to my neighbors swimming pool.

I don't think us Human being are that far down the Evolutionary path. As an over generalization I would say we are Teenagers still trying to define ourselves, and we are yet to learn how to reign in our Demons.

Yep. A dog eat dog world would eventually end up with just 1 dog. reply to: gosseyn

originally posted by: glitterbombman
People often talk of evolving beyond our "greed for money" but what role has "greed for money" had in our own evolution? It's created Empires caused wars and propelled technology. I'm not sure you would even be reading this if it wasn't the Greed of your ISP.

But how do we measure "Greed"? When is enough enough and who draws the line? Am I greedy for wanting AirCon in my car? It not essential to my survival but does not compare to my neighbors swimming pool.

I don't think us Human being are that far down the Evolutionary path. As an over generalization I would say we are Teenagers still trying to define ourselves, and we are yet to learn how to reign in our Demons.

This is what they don't understand. Our quality of life is a by product of greed. People invent, innovate, etc because doing so can lead to getting rich. Pretty much all of the things we enjoy and the advancements made that make life easier resulted in someone getting immensely wealthy. Not only does the general public benefit from the increased productivity, others become wealthy in the process. That wealth is often shared through charitable giving, job creation, etc.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: glitterbombman
People often talk of evolving beyond our "greed for money" but what role has "greed for money" had in our own evolution? It's created Empires caused wars and propelled technology. I'm not sure you would even be reading this if it wasn't the Greed of your ISP.

But how do we measure "Greed"? When is enough enough and who draws the line? Am I greedy for wanting AirCon in my car? It not essential to my survival but does not compare to my neighbors swimming pool.

I don't think us Human being are that far down the Evolutionary path. As an over generalization I would say we are Teenagers still trying to define ourselves, and we are yet to learn how to reign in our Demons.

This is what they don't understand. Our quality of life is a by product of greed. People invent, innovate, etc because doing so can lead to getting rich. Pretty much all of the things we enjoy and the advancements made that make life easier resulted in someone getting immensely wealthy. Not only does the general public benefit from the increased productivity, others become wealthy in the process. That wealth is often shared through charitable giving, job creation, etc.

I am sure Newton, Tesla, Einstein and friends have made their discoveries because of greed. You don't know what you're talking about.

originally posted by: gosseyn

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: glitterbombman
People often talk of evolving beyond our "greed for money" but what role has "greed for money" had in our own evolution? It's created Empires caused wars and propelled technology. I'm not sure you would even be reading this if it wasn't the Greed of your ISP.

But how do we measure "Greed"? When is enough enough and who draws the line? Am I greedy for wanting AirCon in my car? It not essential to my survival but does not compare to my neighbors swimming pool.

I don't think us Human being are that far down the Evolutionary path. As an over generalization I would say we are Teenagers still trying to define ourselves, and we are yet to learn how to reign in our Demons.

This is what they don't understand. Our quality of life is a by product of greed. People invent, innovate, etc because doing so can lead to getting rich. Pretty much all of the things we enjoy and the advancements made that make life easier resulted in someone getting immensely wealthy. Not only does the general public benefit from the increased productivity, others become wealthy in the process. That wealth is often shared through charitable giving, job creation, etc.

I am sure Newton, Tesla, Einstein and friends have made their discoveries because of greed. You don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, there are a lot of discoveries that are made by people who are genuinely curious with no monetary motivation. However, it is greed that makes it possible so those discoveries can be turned into useful products and services.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Stronger, smarter, and less moral people have always taken advantage of dumber, weaker, and moral people. ALWAYS.

There is a sad truth to your words that many will dare not face.

Money, as others have stated, is not the problem.

originally posted by: gosseyn
I am sure Newton, Tesla, Einstein and friends have made their discoveries because of greed. You don't know what you're talking about.

The poster to whom you replied has a point, though. Why don't you add up the number of visionaries/inventors throughout history that were/are motivated by fame/fortune with those only worried about helping the human race? I think you will notice quite a disparity in numbers.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: Edumakated
Stronger, smarter, and less moral people have always taken advantage of dumber, weaker, and moral people. ALWAYS.

There is a sad truth to your words that many will dare not face.

Money, as others have stated, is not the problem. It's either human nature or the modern materialistic society in which we live.

Money is a concept and it is concepts which cause the problem.
Did you ever hear about the experiment where monkeys were introduced to the concept of money?
The first prostitute monkey soon followed.

People do not corrupt people - concepts corrupt the whole.
What was/is the first concept?