Survival: Self-Defence using Wing Chun

a reply to: pexx421

There are no holds barred tournaments in Brazil called valey tudo and all those supposed finger breaking methods were available and people from the world over came to fight.

Guess what grappling always won.

If your dumb enough to let some one grab your fingers and break them your not a good grappler. It also shows me you don't know anything about grappling. Grabbing with your hands is hardly the only way to grapple.

When I was a US team alternate when I was 22 nobody could break my grips. Seriously people trained to do it could not use some magic hand maneuver to break my grips including grabbing my fingers. I spent in average an hour a day climbing ropes and was a carpenter.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Again your wrong. Being thrown into pavement would end a fight very fast. I guarantee you you don't know what you are talking about. There are also standing joint locks.

I can throw, trip, and reap legs break legs very quickly. When I got my sandan in judo I had to know all kinds of strikes as well as very quick throws using an opponents momentum. A simple kosoto gari would knock someone onconcious on pavement. That is a reap.


Boxers leave their lead leg out like a zombie. Just a little bit of knowledge knowing leg kicks ends his ability to move. A boxer needs to know how to check kicks to be effective against a guy who knows what he is doing.

Oh and mma knows every part of the game so that's a fail too.

I guarantee you even a highschool wrestler could beat many western mcdojo martial artists.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Morrad

master wong!!! "dis is da pwoblem!!"

even though hes studied and teaches legit what looks to be Pan Nam Foshun Style Wing Chin I can never tell if he's being serious or making farce with his videos. I like to play a drinking game with his videos, i chug every time he says "dis is da pwoblem!"

as for good wing chun, the ip man movies are fun n all but have next to no resemblance too real life or ip man's life either. but they are fun movies. personally, I think ip man did as much harm as he did good with his obsession with center line theory. Hong Kong wing chun, in my opinion due to that obsession, begins to loose bridging techniques to close the distance that remain with the mainland older version. it also doesn't address weapons well. a wing chun man is getting stabbed if he sticks to his stance and structure and doesn't get off the centerline and keep pressure on the assailants weapon.

as for aikido. akidos gone all new age anD weird. it's origins are based off thevfootwork and deflecting patterns of iaido (Japanese live blade techniques, different from kendo) they should get back into its roots and stop babbling about harmony and peace with your opponents. pakua has the same bs going on with it too, although it's origens are very different.

here's a guy who still does aikido with the right attitude.

m.youtube.com...

m.youtube.com...

I agree with the poster who mentioned Kali. A good school of Kali that really well rounded is the Inosoto/LaCoste Blend. it's basically dirty western boxing with a bunch of silat elbows and limb destruction (scissoring movements to smash up the arms known as guntings) mixed with jujitsu that's called dumog. lots of painful lock flows like the Egyptian, the Octopus and the Cheiftan. Mix that with a foundation of Kali Sayoc or Pikiti Tirsia to get a solid understanding of how to deal with edge and impact weapons.

inosanto/LaCoste Blend example.
m.youtube.com...

example of Kali vs western boxing. you can see how it takes a western boxing foundation and adds the more combative and dirty elements to it.

m.youtube.com...

Yeah man Kali is very effective. I always recommend it when people are looking for self defence. I haven't found a better all around system when taught well.

I have a friend who is was ranger who is a catch wrestler and Kali teacher. I absolutely hated rolling with him but he made a much better martial artist. I was amazing at defence because of him.

As far as aikido I think it's well...I won't be rude. But as a Judoka I faced plenty of them and had zero problem with anything even in combat sambo conditions (another great form)

Japenese JiuJitsu seems the only thing left of the original aikido.

originally posted by: luthier
This is what it looks like when kung fu guys take on grapplers.
m.youtube.com... to crap on your jam. Wing chun has some very useful moves.

That is who my uncle learned from and still trains with.

totally agree with you! the aikido guy I linked to has a series called aikido:the way that doesn't work. he brings up a lot of points and issues that have pissed off a lot of the "traditional" guys.

one thing you brought up that I think is critical regardless of any martial art is how it's taught. most martial arts are legit, it's just that they loose their way when the system is not taught properly and as originally intended. that's one reason I like pikiti tirsia as a system. it has a very specific and methodical way to how the curriculum is taught. it makes sure the principles and concepts are engrained in the very foundation of what you are learning. its very organized and systematic in how it approaches teaching.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

A pioneer for sure.

What worked me about several comments about grappling was they didn't realize bjj was formed in a street fighting culture to defend yourself. Brazil is a rough place.

It's not the end all be all but when taught well its a good form. It also allows you to compete and go fairly hard to find your own style.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I agree. I came from wrestling and itkd when I found judo I was so impressed with its organization. I have studied many forms but I loved competing in judo. It may be a sport but competition and the training and Rondori that goe into being a good competitor is very used for self defence. I also liked sambo whatan unusual form. Even having some roots in gymnastics and equatrian sports as well as Greco, freestyle, boxing, and judo.

As a grappler learning to cast punches was a real epiphany as to how to get a hold of someone or do some damage. Maybe both.

Sorry to geek out I justed moved and am missing my grappling club.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Hard to find a better lineage that that. Would love to be able to train with Royce.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

He is often at my uncle's school along with some of the other brothers and cousins.

Thanks for the advice and the video links. Something to watch tonight and also some info to follow up.

originally posted by: luthier

Japenese JiuJitsu seems the only thing left of the original aikido.

There are some aiki-jutsu schools that are pretty strong jujitsu schools with aiki sauce.

IIRC, jujitsu stripped out the aiki parts to simplify it, and aikido stripped out a lot of the jujitsu to make it less violent.

A full bore aiki-jutsu school has so many techniques (and not all of them organic, imho) you have a tough time learning it before you are grey haired and creaky. More practical schools keep a reasonable number of techniques and clean up the training flow so it builds on itself instead of throwing a wad of info at you all at once.

a reply to: luthier

I did wrestle in high school, and practiced bjj and jjj for several years after. Also done wing chun and kung fu. Enjoyed them all....but in stand up I was comfortable facing 2 maybe 3 street people...didn't really want to be grappling them or wrestling around.

Haven't practiced in a while though.....location is huge for good class availability, and here in Louisiana there are few serious schools, non of the styles I'd like to work with, and costs are exorbitant.

a reply to: pexx421

I disagree. But hey its all the people fighting and their skill that matter. I see a boxer and the first thing I do is attack the lead leg. Either pull it forward with a kouchi gari or kick it with an inside leg kick or a push kick. Boxing is fine if the opponent doesn't know how to kick or trip.

When I say getting slammed on pavement knocka guys out I don't just mean hip throws. Reaps also are deadly. This move is in the first set of throws you learn in judo. Osoto gari.youtu.be...
People get knocked out on mats with it and there are many variations. You also have to spar in judo to pass rank (called Rondori). So you learn how to use it. There is a throw from every position.

This is a sambo throw that nobody knows what is coming unless they study sambo. I trained with Steve and he basically runs USA sport sambo. In self defense as soon as you start the roll basically you instantly break the knee and get up face the next guy. It can roll you away from the group. youtu.be...
People generally are confused by it as well. Sambo is what the Russian military uses

I think styles like Krav Maga are so effective because they don't follow one set path. When you follow a rigid path, you limit yourself.

Kind of like how Bruce Lee said no path is the right path or something.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Krav is a great self defence form too. But I think it's a fairly "hard" form. My personal ecpierance is Kali and escrima and all it variants silat etc have a lot more weapons in their aresonal. The great thing about krav is they are absorbing all these forms.

a reply to: Bedlam

good point thsts why i like kali. simple techniques, endless applications. Kali has three footwork patterns. forward on a 45 degree angle, backwards on a 45 degree angle and side to side. 4 strikes. forehand paw. backhand hack, finger jab & elbows. 6 kicks or so, all below the waist. two parrys, three entries being outside, spli and inside. basic joint lock flows. thats it. with that it blends and flows into thousands of moves but really only a handdul of techniques. good for hicks law. en.m.wikipedia.org...

heck one of the most profound yet simple martial art if run across is Sera/serak. has 18 metamovements called jurus. but really everything is in the first 5 that makes the system. most people look at it and say 'I don't get it' but studied martial artists see a gold mine of techniques distilled into a simple format. again it's applications are endless.

demonstration/ instruction of serak concepts and body structure. 20min video.
m.youtube.com...

LOL all that fancy for nothing.

Learn to throw a proper punch.

green beret demonstrates effectiveness of finger jab
m.youtube.com...


open hand is a better striking weapon than a punch.

m.youtube.com...

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Yep.

We used to put safety glasses on to practice. Still ended up with a scar under my eye.

Open hand also equals working hand. There was a reason kyokushin didn't punch to the head.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Whereismypassword

Again your wrong. Being thrown into pavement would end a fight very fast. I guarantee you you don't know what you are talking about. There are also standing joint locks.

I can throw, trip, and reap legs break legs very quickly. When I got my sandan in judo I had to know all kinds of strikes as well as very quick throws using an opponents momentum. A simple kosoto gari would knock someone onconcious on pavement. That is a reap.


Boxers leave their lead leg out like a zombie. Just a little bit of knowledge knowing leg kicks ends his ability to move. A boxer needs to know how to check kicks to be effective against a guy who knows what he is doing.

Oh and mma knows every part of the game so that's a fail too.

I guarantee you even a highschool wrestler could beat many western mcdojo martial artists.

One on one grappling is effective,did you miss that part in my comments? And it's blindingly obvious you don't have to ground people to lock them up:-/



More than one opponent and IMO a boxer or non grappling martial artist would do better as they can KO one punch far quicker and safer than getting close and personal

You sound like Ronda and look what a kick boxer did to her:-/

One on one and a great grappler if he times it right will dominate but an equally good opponent can counter that-that's not too hard to understand is it?

Training And reflexes

Some people are borne fighters other people have glass jaws and slow reactions,no amount of training can strengthen a weak jaw :-/