Here's Why so Many People Like Bernie

a reply to: pexx421

In other words, you want to pay your taxes to the government so that they become the strongman to go in a take from others who have what you don't and use that to give to you what you don't have yourself.

If what you were paying in taxes was sufficient in and of itself to provide that, you'd likely have it. Since you don't, it's not.

a reply to: Malynn

You can pretend to misunderstand my terminology all you want. When I say Social Democracy (which is the European term for democratic socialism) I am referring to countries who have adopted democracy and capitalism with socialist programs. Canada is most assuredly one of those.

And the NDP (the socialist-y Canadian party) hasn't gotten to form their own government in Canada yet but they gain power every year. They definitely have a sizeable seat at the federal table. Regardless the most conservative Canadians think our Republicans are lunatics for the most part.

"Socialist programs"? I think you mean government programs. Welfare-states originated with conservative and liberal implementation. Socialists realized the value of a welfare-state long after anyone else did. So no, they are not
"socialist programs".

I understand your terminology. I just think its false.

a reply to: TheTory

OK. You're saying I'm wrong because universal healthcare Is a "government program" but not a "socialist" program. Which was implemented by conservatives and liberals and socialists stole the idea?

Whelp lol I thought we were having an actual discussion here. Nevermind then. I'll let you continue on with others who have patience for mental gymnastics. Have a pleasant Tuesday.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Imightknow
a reply to: BrianFlanders

I see that you completely ignored the heart of the OP, which was people having enough of corrupt, puppet politicians who are bought and paid for by interests with a lot of $$$ and an agenda.

Most Americans are quite ignorant and don't even understand the true meaning of Socialism; these are the ones who get their news from CNN and FOX lol.

Well you are right about most Americans not knowing what socialism really is. Only 16% of Bernie supporters understand that the true definition of socialism is government owned means of production, not just a "generous social safety net" which is what a lot of them think it means (free stuff).

However, I would argue that most of those do not get their news from either CNN or FOX. They are likely getting it from Comedy Central.

Free stuff?? Explain to me how is it free if people pay more taxes? A really small group that needs it gets things free, the rest pay more taxes and get a better country for it in return.

You know who will be getting things free: veterans, disabled persons, chronically ill, people that lose their jobs. But they wont because apparantly thats un-American and these are lazy people, according to you. No wonder youre not taken serious.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Imightknow

Last I checked, the president has no say in who does or does not get elected to congress although I'm sure Obama wished that he did.

Nope.

Bernie, single-handed, will kick out corrupt congressmen, end the Fed, break big business, raise taxes, make school and medicine free for everyone, shoot lasers out of his colostomy bag, and beat up Putin.

He's got so many ideas on how to get the free stuff to us all, too!

and my personal favorite:

More ignorant oneliners.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: pexx421

No, you want higher taxes to get health care and such.

You know, tax the "evil" rich.

At what point is there a "return" on tax dollars. That is not how this country was founded. Tax dollars were not there to care for people or provide crap to people or BUSINESS.

Ok so why do all banks get bailouts and several huge corporation never pay there taxes? Because what you say here is just not true. Noone wants stuff for free, Americans and Europeans arent lazy and want to work. They just want a level of decency build in their society that prevents veterans or fired people from dieing in the streets weeks after they lose their homes... But apparantly thats un-American, unless you are a big corporation and dont really need more money.

You are siding with big corps rather than your own flesh and blood. Talking about manipulation by media. Free stuff is a one liner copied from FOX. And many put that stuff on 24-7 in the kitchen or in waiting rooms in the US, no wonder the retoric it spews reaches so far:

a reply to: Malynn

Wow.

Debate decisively crushed.

Good job.

Between you and pexx I'm laughing at the straws these hopefuls are grasping at.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
I'll tell you exactly why so many people like Bernie Sanders. Because American culture has been riddled with socialist propaganda for many decades. It's literally everywhere you look and that's not even close to an exaggeration or paranoia. And American kids have grown up swimming in the stuff and not even knowing they were essentially being indoctrinated. And even before it was entirely obvious, they were there quietly doing their thing.

Sanders is popular because the American people did not take communist infiltration seriously. People who would have been outspoken about it allowed the mainstream socialists to bully them into silence with accusations of McCarthyism. Nevermind that McCarthy was actually right about almost everything.

Good god, man. Do you really believe this nonsense, or are you toeing the line like a good Limbaugh listener.

Lol! Indoctrinated Communists for decades. Haha

a reply to: TheTory

Find any coherent sentence that uses the phrase "socialist programs". There is no such phrase. You made it up.

Here's one

To make matters that much worse, and it is that much worse, the GOP’s favorite socialist program has completely lost track of where $8.5 trillion in taxpayer and borrowed money because the Department of Defense has no accountability to the American people...

link

Here's another

Sure, the supporters of Medicare and Social Security rationalize their support for a socialist program by claiming they "paid in" to some imaginary trust fund.

link

....And another

Another example of a socialist program is Canada's healthcare system.

link

There you have it at least 3 examples of the term "socialist program" used in coherent sentences, proving I did not make it up. Also if you google "socialist programs in the united states" Social Security and Medicaid are the first things to come up. Weird, huh?

Sorry, but no, because you pay taxes towards the general welfare does not mean you own the means of production or distribution.

Wow, an actual coherent argument not laden with a logical fallacy, I'm proud of you!
Yes you are correct, us as a society don't directly own the means of production or distribution. But America also is not a socialist country by any classical definition, (or at least not yet!) so that is to be expected. However, if you wanted to argue semantics, you could say that the work you do for your paycheck, which you do own, produces the funds necessary that the state then distributes to those programs in our place. Either way it sounds pretty gosh darn socialist. (Or maybe even communist in a certain light. Scary!)

People payed taxes in feudal states – must be for those "socialist programs" they (k)new so much about.

Well, they were feudal states. Not socialist or democratic states. That's just a terrible argument.

The nazis used the plutocracy rhetoric as propaganda, something it seems you've eaten right up and are using yourself. Yes; a cabal of evil rich men are running a democratic country, all while at the same time you are voting for an admitted socialist. How can you say this with a straight face?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you insinuating here that anyone who questions the the actions and motivations of the big money elite is automatically akin to Nazis? Is Iceland run by Nazis because they jailed the bankers in their country for their role in the 2008 financial crises? The Nazis were also among the first to pass animal rights laws. Are you saying animal rights activism and Nazism are one in the same? Your logic is flawed. Again, please correct me if I'm misrepresenting your argument here.

And just to clarify I am NOT voting for Bernie or anyone for that matter, because anyone that pays any sort of attention knows we do NOT live in a democracy and that our elections are rigged. In my initial post I was stating why I felt Bernie had such a strong following. Not that I agreed with his policies, though I do appreciate his platform of giving big money interest the finger. Because yes, I do believe that money influences the state, not its constituents.
But yes, please feel free to continue to put words in my mouth.

Looking from Europe to this parade of corrupt clowns there , Bernie is your last chance.Take it.

a reply to: Malynn

OK. You're saying I'm wrong because universal healthcare Is a "government program" but not a "socialist" program. Which was implemented by conservatives and liberals and socialists stole the idea?

Whelp lol I thought we were having an actual discussion here. Nevermind then. I'll let you continue on with others who have patience for mental gymnastics. Have a pleasant Tuesday.

Yeah that's right. I specifically said the welfare state was implemented by liberals and conservatives before socialists. But yes, even with universal healthcare, liberal and conservative governments instituted it long before any socialist states did. So given that socialists never conceived of the idea, given that Marx opposed welfare states, given that they were implemented in social democratic countries long after anyone else, no, not "socialist" programs, which with a brief look turns out to be a phrase made up by – you guessed it – socialists.

It's a joke. It's a lie. "America already is socialist because of socialist programs" is utter nonsense, and turn out to be no more than socialist propaganda, regurgitated and asserted to be true.

a reply to: Bandersn4tch

I concede. Those are coherent sentences. Let's take the next step. So what makes them socialist? Were they invented by socialists? Were they instituted by socialists? Are they found in any socialist manifesto?

Well, they were feudal states. Not socialist or democratic states. That's just a terrible argument.

Yet you call government programs "socialist programs".

Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you insinuating here that anyone who questions the the actions and motivations of the big money elite is automatically akin to Nazis?

No. I'm insinuating the very same nonsensical rhetoric was used by the Nazis to demonize the jews, the brits and the Americans. It turns out, others are following the same course of action. Am I wrong? Or do you have some specific plutocrats in mind that you are speaking of?

a reply to: onequestion

Wow.

Debate decisively crushed.

Good job.

Between you and pexx I'm laughing at the straws these hopefuls are grasping at.

I'm sure you're a wonderful judge of debates.

Way to put words in my mouth. And some more brainless memes, good job!

a reply to: TheTory

LOL Regardless of who "invented" Universal Healthcare the program is a socialist program. But you know that and your dishonest little semantic game is only being played right now because your programming against the word "socialist" is so strong that you absolutely cannot and will not use it in a fashion that could be perceived as "not evil". I sense great cognitive dissonance obi-wan

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
I'll tell you exactly why so many people like Bernie Sanders. Because American culture has been riddled with socialist propaganda for many decades. It's literally everywhere you look and that's not even close to an exaggeration or paranoia.

It is precisely and exactly...."exaggeration" and "paranoia"...

But no doubt you believe that boogie-man to be real..

originally posted by: Malynn
a reply to: TheTory

LOL Regardless of who "invented" Universal Healthcare the program is a socialist program.

As well it should be? When someone's Cancer can be defeated by working harder or investing more in education...or responds to price elasticity or the labor markets...I'll buy the capitalistic solution to healthcare...

But as anyone's whose brain has not been rotted by ideology understands...Healthcare is meant to fall under the socialist column....cuz disease cares not how hard you work, nor how much you make or how much you contribute to the economy.

I am a fierce and huge fan of capitalism...healthcare has nothing to do with it.

Capitalism meets healthcare creates this...

Drug company CEO who hiked price 5,000% takes over cancer drug maker
wtkr.com...

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Malynn

"Socialist programs"? I think you mean government programs. Welfare-states originated with conservative and liberal implementation. Socialists realized the value of a welfare-state long after anyone else did. So no, they are not
"socialist programs".

I understand your terminology. I just think its false.

Interesting perspective...I'll have to take your word on the historical context..

a reply to: Malynn

LOL Regardless of who "invented" Universal Healthcare the program is a socialist program. But you know that and your dishonest little semantic game is only being played right now because your programming against the word "socialist" is so strong that you absolutely cannot and will not use it in a fashion that could be perceived as "not evil". I sense great cognitive dissonance obi-wan

It isn't a socialist program. You're going to have to back up your claims with something at least. If it wasn't conceived by socialists, if it wasn't first implemented by socialists, if it has no connection to socialism, how is it a "socialist program"?

Give me anything, or you've reached Orwellian levels of doublespeak.

a reply to: Indigo5

Hey I couldn't agree more. I'm arguing FOR socialism up in here. Perhaps you should read my posts.