Here's Why so Many People Like Bernie

a reply to: deadlyhope

Plenty of people definitely are saying he will turn our country into another one. Ignorance is full circle because ignorance simply denotes a lack of knowledge, which as humans we all have....

They being said, debating who's ignorance is more dangerous is definitely popular now days.

The socialist experiment has failed long ago. The body count is staggering. We know via history who's ignorance is more dangerous.

a reply to: TheTory

Sorry, but a declining standard of living is not "just fine". Yeah, I do well, and make more than my parents did at my age..... But the majority doesn't. My mom and my father in law both make over 100k now with no higher education. No one this generation will. Wages are regressing while prices and inflation are increasing, all the growth in GDP is going to a very small group, and we are forced to pay for bankers and speculators bad bets. This is not fine. Get your head out of the sand. Just because YOU may be fine don't be so detached from the reality the majority of our society lives in. The American dream has become a nightmare.

a reply to: pexx421

Sorry, but a declining standard of living is not "just fine". Yeah, I do well, and make more than my parents did at my age..... But the majority doesn't. My mom and my father in law both make over 100k now with no higher education. No one this generation will. Wages are regressing while prices and inflation are increasing, all the growth in GDP is going to a very small group, and we are forced to pay for bankers and speculators bad bets. This is not fine. Get your head out of the sand. Just because YOU may be fine don't be so detached from the reality the majority of our society lives in. The American dream has become a nightmare.

Start a company, employ people at a livable wage, give them all the benefits and healthcare they need. Anyone can do that. But no; you'd rather not. The opportunity to help others is there, but no one wants to do it. Leave it to the bureaucrats.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I find the argument that our country is "too large for universal healthcare" completely absurd. Literally 100% of the rest of the industrialised world enjoys universal healthcare. Most of them for a LONG LONG time.

What the people who insist this are REALLY saying is they don't understand how it works, and thus it would be "too hard" to implement. But it's cool because those of us who DO understand will be happy to implement it for them. And will.

I wish I could go forward 200 years in time so I could read the books and essays people will write about this hideous backwards era of American history.

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: deadlyhope

Plenty of people definitely are saying he will turn our country into another one. Ignorance is full circle because ignorance simply denotes a lack of knowledge, which as humans we all have....

They being said, debating who's ignorance is more dangerous is definitely popular now days.

The socialist experiment has failed long ago. The body count is staggering. We know via history who's ignorance is more dangerous.

Do you know how many of those people died in communist/socialist countries due to civil war? How about the number that starved due to natural disaster or crop failures because of the weather? How about revolution and disease?

I always chuckle when I see people post nonsense like this because it shows they have not actually done the research to find out what happened in those countries and why so many people died. They just like to ramble-on about "body counts" as if they are some expert on the matter, and to prop-up their own political agendas.

Forgive me for saying it is that sort of ignorance that is dangerous. History will repeat itself many times over when we cannot learn from it because political hacks have blurred the reality of history for their own purposes.

a reply to: TheTory

Only the most ignorant think Bernie is a socialist.

Give me just one link that shows he desires the government to run business.

Give me just one link where he shows he is against private land ownership.

Get a dictionary, people.

a reply to: Malynn

If you are very well educated in economics, I suppose you could give an educated opinion on the size of our country taking on universal health care. Otherwise, the fact that we are at least Tens of times bigger, if not more, than some European nations is relevant.

Also, while we are talking about Europe, the corporate taxes are closer to 20-30 percent, while Bernie is suggesting closer to 50 percent for the top income brackets. We will be emulating some aspects of other nations, but not emulating other aspects. The result? No one can truly know.

All of this said, I'm still voting for Sanders come election. His anti establishment, anti banker, anti political corruption messages stand out far above the rest.

a reply to: TheTory

The system is rigged.

Major corporations pay very low taxes, sometimes even are subsidized on top of that.

small business cant compete with negative taxes, when they are being taxed 30 percent.

Most new small businesses fail. Not always due to lack of innovation or dedication.

Yet most franchises of already established businesses succeed. Not always due to quality or a good work environment, or anything substantial other than advertising and name branding.

No, a person cannot simply go out and start a business and pay people well. The ignorance a person has to have to believe everyone can live the American dream... Is the worst type.

Admitting burger flippers are needed, and having enough empathy to say any worker should be able to put food on their table are more agreed upon facets of America.

If all of a sudden every single adult got their bachelor's degree and started their own business and quit their day job... America would be screwed. No business would still be open, everyone would be attempting "the American dream" and trying to open their own business and the like...

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: amazing

HA HA HA H A AH HA .

That was a joke right?

Obama has been as bad as anyone who can count to 2 thought he would be.
Lies lies lies, expanded wars, bailouts to banks, wall street, auto makers, less jobs, more debt, more inflation, higher cost of living, more cronyism and corruption, cover ups, more terrorist attacks.

Should I go on?

Sanders is drumming up the same support from the same idiots as Obama did. They want the Govt to give them everything. "Free stuff" Who's going to pay for it? Short of putting a gun to the 1% ers heads, they aren't going to cough up the cash willingly.

Sounds a lot like the folks who wanted that "Obama Cash"



You've got points, but let's be real. I have family and a house and children and some pretty outrageous medical bills and my wife works and we've lived in two states and I have my own business and I have very close family and friends in other states..this includes Maryland, Washington, Virginia, California, Texas, Nevada, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, West Virginia and Arizona. So that means I have a pretty good indication and experience of President Obamas last 8 years. I can tell you this:

Obama has been no worse for the country than Bush, Bush Sr, Reagon, Carter, Ford, Nixon, or Clinton. No worse than any of them. He has shortcomings and things he did and didn't do, but he hastn't destroyed this country, the economy has improved dramatically, and our international standings and standard of living are high.

While not really defending Obama, I don't understand why you are saying he's been as bad as you thought he'd be or how he as hurt America. How? I posted all those states because almost everyone (90%) of my friends and family in every state I listed is thriving. Good Jobs, healthcare, houses, businesses, education standard of living, crime, everything. They're all thriving in the last 8 years. What has been so bad?
How anyone can support any of the candidates in this race, regardless of party, is beyond me.

a reply to: TheTory

In the same vein you could say the religious experiment has failed.....look at all those killed by religion! Or the capitalist experiment has failed. Look at all those killed by our wars for profit and resources. And the destruction of the environment. And so on..

No one is saying he's going to turn this country into another one. That would be absurd. He's going to severely alter the social and political landscape of the country, one that has worked just fine since its last revolution, because he thinks his ideas are superior to everyone else's. He doesn't care about people; he cares about ideas.

What do you consider the "last revolution"?
Reagan-era? Because the populace has been systematically screwed by the Reagan revolution, and they are not happy.
If you're talking about back in the days of the founders, the political and social landscape of the country has already been drastically altered several times. Usually for the better (MLK), sometimes for the worse. (Reagan, Bill Clinton.)

a reply to: deadlyhope

Oh, I should have clarified it in post. I was reducing the other candidates to somewhat non-representative soundbite labels, like everyone does with calling Sanders a "Socialist." Clinton and Bush are definitely Oligarchs, though. Yes, they're more complex than "Theocrat" or "Fascist", but if Bernie is a Socialist then Cruz is a Theocrat.

a reply to: deadlyhope

There are multiple ways to accomplish universal healthcare. But for a country organized the way ours is now I think the easiest transition would be Canadian style. Each province (or state in our case) has its own healthcare system. They are all governed by the same laws and standards but each province manages its own. They pay for it themselves too as much as possible, and what they cannot afford the federal government makes up the difference with what they call transfer payments. Some provinces do better than others of course. Oil-rich Alberta for example is fond of reminding Canadians regularly that their books are balanced and they're making it rain. Canola-rich Saskatchewan and Manitoba struggle a bit more but are getting by just fine.

And it's not like the rich aren't pampered under this system. Canada has plenty of private healthcare providers that will be happy to charge you an arm and a leg so you can visit clinics with plush carpets and mahogany trim and large flatscreen TVS in your private room as exists in any hospital in the US. The difference is in Canada the poor get to have healthcare too.

a reply to: Malynn

Yeah. Hawaii does it after all.

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: deadlyhope

Plenty of people definitely are saying he will turn our country into another one. Ignorance is full circle because ignorance simply denotes a lack of knowledge, which as humans we all have....

They being said, debating who's ignorance is more dangerous is definitely popular now days.

The socialist experiment has failed long ago. The body count is staggering. We know via history who's ignorance is more dangerous.

-checks northern europe, notes things are going quite well there under a socio-capitalist hybrid-
so..yeah, this is awkward.

Look, we have always had some socialism in our nation ever since a middle class, ever since taxes became a thing. some socialism is required for any nation to maintain itself and not end in civil revolt every few years.
The question never was if we should have some, its how much. Join the actual debate or be ignored.


Does society benefit from healthy poor people? well, someone has to dig ditches
Does society benefit from seniors being taken care of verses tossed into the street for bad spending choices earlier in life? the alternative is a lot of panicky 60 year olds committing crimes
Does society benefit from retraining prisoners to become productive members of society?
etc.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: TheTory

In the same vein you could say the religious experiment has failed.....look at all those killed by religion! Or the capitalist experiment has failed. Look at all those killed by our wars for profit and resources. And the destruction of the environment. And so on..

Ummm I'm pretty sure religion & capitalism are both horrible utter failures & disgraces to humanity. Hard to say which one is holding our species back more though.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
I'll tell you exactly why so many people like Bernie Sanders. Because American culture has been riddled with socialist propaganda for many decades. It's literally everywhere you look and that's not even close to an exaggeration or paranoia. And American kids have grown up swimming in the stuff and not even knowing they were essentially being indoctrinated. And even before it was entirely obvious, they were there quietly doing their thing.

Sanders is popular because the American people did not take communist infiltration seriously. People who would have been outspoken about it allowed the mainstream socialists to bully them into silence with accusations of McCarthyism. Nevermind that McCarthy was actually right about almost everything.

This is probably the closest to the root of the reason as anyone will get. It IS about Communism and Socialism. The youth now believe that Socialism is a good thing because they've never actually seen it and the severe corruption and social issues it actually causes. They've only latched onto the Communist Utopia Idea of it, thinking that's what they're going to get, when the're actually going to get severely restricted freedoms and long soup lines. Yay, Utopia at last!

a reply to: SaturnFX

Right?! How come Scandinavia isn't littered with bodies? And they have a higher standard of living than we do. I guess no one told them they must fail.

Another aspect about the Canadian system I loved was that because the employers did not need to provide healthcare they provided OTHER benefits. For example in Canada dentistry and some podiatry are not totally covered under their system. So my employer provided dental benefit was amazing. Everything was covered at 100% up to $1500 per year. And that was 5 years ago. My employer also paid for monthly massage therapy, EAP, and financial counselling if you wanted it.

I probably shouldn't go into the fact that Manitoba also has socialized auto insurance. The Mcarthys in this thread may have strokes. Very successful program too. When you register your car the fee also includes your insurance. Everyone has the same provider. No lawsuits. No scummy lawyers preying on weak injured people. When the system makes money they split it up and everyone gets a check in the mail. No life ruining medical bills when you have an accident because everyone has healthcare. I should email Bernie about that auto insurance thing.

a reply to: arcnaver

America riddled with socialist propaganda? In what world? Every time you see socialism mentioned at all its to ridicule it. How is this propaganda? I think you have your methods confused. We are constantly subjected to capitalist propaganda. Similar to how they keep insisting we have a "liberal media" and yet most can only name 1 liberal spokesperson. Meanwhile there is an unending list of right wing figureheads venting bile, fear and hate on TV and radio pretty much 24/7.

a reply to: Malynn

I work forty hours a week. I make $55 an hour. According to bernies web site, i will be taxed at 30%.

According to his website, those making $150,000 a year will be taxed at 19%.

Tell me, how is he helping those of us who make $60000 to $90000 a year? Being a union electrician, i can tell you that as taxes increase, the amount of construction decreases.

Therefore, hit the top 1%, they take the work and jobs elsewhere.

Btw, i am the farthest thing from a low info voter you will ever know.

a reply to: SaturnFX

If by "northern europe" you mean the constitutional monarchies and republics of the nordic model, they didn't start thriving until they adopted capitalism.

The debate isn't about what works and what benefits so and so – slavery worked and benefited some people. It's about what is right and wrong and what is immoral. Forcing people to hand over their hard-earned dollar to benefit a few is immoral. Neglecting charitable duties in favor of government legislated morality is immoral.