Jesus isn't God, doesn't claim to be God and doesn't want to be worshipped.

a reply to: Rasalghul

Not all I have recognized he was Shem well over 10 years ago while studying out lineages as laid out in the Bible.

Some people believed that there is a long period of time between Adam to Noah, Noah to Abraham. They failed to see that their lives over lapped each other. Shem was still alive when Abraham was born and called of God to go to the land of Canaan. Shem's life there in Canaan was the fulfillment of the curse Noah put onto Canaan because of what Ham had did unto is father.

originally posted by: Rasalghul

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Isurrender73

yeah but again that is in opposition to the preserved word of God. I will by faith take the preserved word over any new translation of men.

Either you believe God preserved his word as he promised or you don't. I believe the preserved word is accurate and all others are false.

MO

What's the "preserved word of God"? Are you saying only the kjv, a flawed translation, is better than the modern bible's that use the DSS OT texts alongside the Greek AND Masoretic texts? Because that is ridiculous. The NRSV is a million times better than the kjv, and more honest to the ancient texts because of DSS ( the oldest old testament in existence - Esther) use in translation.
The kjv is garbage, no wonder you don't know $hit.

For the record, Melchizedeck is not Shem, that's Jewish propaganda. Melchizedeck is El Elyons priest, King of righteousness.

I don't, but if you believe what the new testament says, Melchizedeck is immortal and has no parents. So he couldn't be Shem without contradicting the new testament.

a reply to: Rasalghul

First it is spelled Melchizedek or Melchisedec, second it is funny you don't agree with that because most Gnostics do

the scriptures don't say he was immortal just he was with lineage as far as the people of that day knew. They knew not when he was born or when he died. the other priest that rose up in the order (likeness) of Melchisedec, Jesus Christ is that priest that rose up in the order of Melchisedec.

Here is a tidbit for you Chedorlaomer was King Hammurabi author of the Hammurabi Code found on Stella. He was killed by Abarahm and that is why there is a sudden disappearance of Hammurabi from history around that time.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Rasalghul

First it is spelled Melchizedek or Melchisedec, second it is funny you don't agree with that because most Gnostics do

the scriptures don't say he was immortal just he was with lineage as far as the people of that day knew. They knew not when he was born or when he died. the other priest that rose up in the order (likeness) of Melchisedec, Jesus Christ is that priest that rose up in the order of Melchisedec.

Here is a tidbit for you Chedorlaomer was King Hammurabi author of the Hammurabi Code found on Stella. He was killed by Abarahm and that is why there is a sudden disappearance of Hammurabi from history around that time.

First, im not a Gnostic, second, I spelled Melchizedeck properly and it's actually Melki Tzedek which means king of Righteousness. He is also prince or king of peace. God's priest also (not Yahweh) is he, priest of the Most High God.

Paul does say he is immortal and has no parents which is obvious because he equates Christ with Melchizedeck.

The resl Melchizedeck is of Chaldean priesthood, the religion of Abraham's ancestors which is why he pays tribute to him and how they know each other.

a reply to: Rasalghul

I wish they would add a "Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down" on here like Yahoo because I'd definitely gave to give you a dozen Thumbs Uppers!! (I have to sometimes think twice as to admitting I actually read that on-line "rag"! ) Even going thru replies etc in this thread, I still don't get how people seem to be so blatantly supportive of thinking that Jesus is ACTUALLY GOD!! What? He supposed to be in disguise?! Sometimes i think the Bible has been dumbed down for humanity, but that's carrying it a bit far. Or do just we need some kind of new religious dictionary? " God + Jesus = Father & Son", NOT "God + Jesus = GOD, Period!" I didn't think we were THAT stupid! Ah well...guess that's what makes people so very different. At my age I've given up trying to figure them out, let alone understanding them!

a reply to: Rubicon3

Islam has a good philosophy on that, I'm paraphrasing but basically its let the ignorant be and rejoice for Allah has given you the knowledge over them.

a reply to: Rubicon3

The theology has even bigger problem to explain, long before discussing Jesus is God. The problem is called Suffering and Evil on Earth. Notice the suffering concerns all human beings, generally the good ones suffer more but exceptions happen. The evil concerns the evil beings. While the second could be explained by the so called free will, the first cannot. You haven't chosen to be born where you were, you haven't chosen most of the circumstances in life (and the few you do, you are usually sorry the rest of your life). Nobody has chosen by free will the constant sickness and other malfunction of any kind.

That all is called redemption plan of human failed nature, and God's mercy to save the immortal soul. For what sins? For the original sin and its consequences. That is believed by the Jews and the Muslims alike, who do not necessarily accept Jesus as more than a prophet.

The Christian doctrine adds to that, that Jesus came to bear sins, and by his crucifixion he erazed the sin of Adam and Eve. By our baptism we were freed from the original sin. But notice - not from the CONSEQUENCES of it and not from the suffering!

If we zoom out from the personal level to reach some historic level of 1000+ years, we see that projected on history background. After Jesus, we have 3 centuries persecutions of those who have accepted God's kingdom in their lives. Followed by 15 centuries unchallenged rule in Europe by the descendants of the christian elders. Nowhere near to God's kingdom to come visibly on earth. Instead we got inquisition, torture, erasing of old texts that say another side of the story, plus conquests and crusades. That all ended only after the Churches (Roman in first place) lost their positions in the politics, roughly after the French revolution. Since then the Churches (Roman) paint themselves as victims of ungodly society.

Until that basic concept of suffering and original sin is corrected somehow (and I do not have the recipe) the issue of whether Jesus erased it or not, or whether the Christ's Church (which one) is the rightful interpreter of the will of God, is senseless. You suffer all your life for sins you never committed (unless we accept the theory of reincarnation, that personally I do not). What redemption we are talking about then? From what? From ourselves? Who is to blame of creating us in that way?

History of Anunaki and Sumer texts tell us quite different story instead of the fable of Adam and Eve in the garden. But I will not subscribe to Anunaki story until we see concrete proofs that story is not also made up for their own ends. If those books are correct and not Genesis, we see the Anunaki bitterly divided between themselves and destroying a planet and damaging the earth (flood) as a result. Fire was envisioned instead of water, and the water and salvation of Noah (or others) come at the mercy of a faction of Anunaki. I don't necessarily claim that should substitute Adam and Eve without questioning. But to trump the Adam story time and again in 21st century when we know a little about genes and gene transformation (as in our tomatoes) is not just ridiculous. It becomes intentional attempt to delude humanity for another 2000 years.

Perhaps Jesus talked exactly against that before being killed by people who held Genesis as the source of all knowledge. We don't know because books were erased as well as their human bearers. However, a weak Jesus who accepted to suffer, cannot really help us. A strong Jesus could. Will we see therefore Jesus coming in clouds, OR will he send his descendants and armies of UFOs to do that instead? Until that is done, and suffering as magic is eliminated (along with countless illnesses) I will not believe ANY doctrine that builds upon OUR ruined lives. Let they sacrifice themselves if they want to, but let they leave us alone. The world would be a better place without such doctrines.

Again, of God's plan envisions some betterment, as the so called Kingdom of God in the Gospel, then why it didn't come for 2000 years prayer, sacrifice, and sacraments? May be God is equally or more enraged of those who perverted His plans. Let he act until the last of his followers is still found alive on this dumped planet. And if we are not talking of God the Creator of every star around multi trillion universe, but of local entities, then we'd better hope the merciful ones to be quicker in their victory if they want us to survive the already 6000 year reign of the evil.

The topic could be prolonged of course and is open ended. People like Daniken should be listened to, and if the Roman Church had any intention to survive these perilous times, it would have elevated them to cardinals. Along with a number of its own stuff that stays in shadow that says retty much the same. The non-action of RCC and other major churches on these topics that are no secret for DECADES, shows those entities are schedued to fall, one way or another.

ABout the Anunaki once more: IF the Sumer texts are the true story, and Anunaki indeed created/genetically modified the first humans to have what we have today as homo sapience, then it comes the question of their responsibility. They may have acted with best intentions. However their actions in past brought immense suffering to each and all of those creatures that should be made "in the image of God". We need compensation for the historic fault as well as for the personal sufferings of each of us. Not in an afterlife that is obscure what it is all about (clouds of joy or what). The world has to be sure it is rewarded finally for thousands of years history that the majority of earth's citizens never decided to be a such bloody experience. Annunaki (or as many ET races that participated in the process, some say Pleiadians too) have to make that contribution to earth citizens, and I believe they have been obliged to do so by higher galactic rules. Whether by God the Creator, I don't know. It suffice very little that as we read in the book of Enoch (is it true at all, after Genesis is proven to lie), that the Watchers would be punished forever for....mating with the humans i.e. creating the current version of homo sapience. I do not care how much the Watchers will suffer, I care how less we suffer, ndividually and as human race. If there are powers above, who undoubtedly also follow the events, not only on mind level but also on public level, let they understand the humanity has reached the level to pretend to be rewarded rightfully and justly for all those ages. It is not mercy to show towards the sinners. It is reward to those who spent entire lives and generations under conditions they have never chosen, or being guilty in previous lives, etc stupid explanations. Or else...let not be surprised that some ufologists claim after 400 years there will be galactic tyranny originated from planet Earth. If the earth is not rewarded now, expect the worst of the worst from those same homo sapience now armed with nukes and collides that can create higgs bosons capable theoretically to swallow ...Hawking says the galaxy and the universe, but not powerful enough yet. The gods from ancient books must understand that they cannot play anymore with human race at will. If they are sorry for what they did, or if they intended something better, let they bring the good side right now. It is not a threat. I am nobody, I just analyze.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Jesus is just a prophet.
You thinking people need to be eliminated reveals your true self as unchristian. You think people who don't think like you are evil, THAT'S evil.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: 2012newstart

Jesus is just a prophet.
You thinking people need to be eliminated reveals your true self as unchristian. You think people who don't think like you are evil, THAT'S evil.

Jesus was not just a prophet. He told the truth when he said he was the "Son of God." And fulfilled the hundreds of prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures, all of them concerning the Messiah (or Christ).

His linage was royal, he had powerful works that backed up those claims, including healing the sick, lame, blind, deaf, controlling the elements, expelling the demons, and even resurrecting dead people back to life.

And the greatest witness of Jesus was Jehovah God himself, who 3 times spoke directly from heaven confirming that Jesus was indeed the son of God.

True, Jesus was the greatest of all prophets. But he was not just a prophet. He was the Christ. And only through him may mankind attain salvation.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: 2012newstart

Jesus is just a prophet.
You thinking people need to be eliminated reveals your true self as unchristian. You think people who don't think like you are evil, THAT'S evil.

did you read what I write? I never said anyone should be killed. I don't think people who don't think like me are evil. I say what I think and you'd better read it a second time. Thank you, I will not respond more quotes of the sort.

a reply to: 2012newstart

So eliminated how then? You basically said all non Christians need to be eliminated.

Son of God doesn't = God as Jesus has the same God we do. Even prays to God. Does God pray to Jesus?

a reply to: 2012newstart
All you need to do is listen to Jesus who at least 3 times states his inferiority to God.

Now if you want to go to the trinity, which depends on equality of the 3 in order to be Monotheistic, Jesus words smash it to pieces, which makes trinitarians pagan polytheists because the 3 aren't equal.

You can believe Jesus is a God if you want but you can't also be a monotheist by even the most liberal definition.

So, you're a polytheist. That's cool.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: 2012newstart
All you need to do is listen to Jesus who at least 3 times states his inferiority to God.

Now if you want to go to the trinity, which depends on equality of the 3 in order to be Monotheistic, Jesus words smash it to pieces, which makes trinitarians pagan polytheists because the 3 aren't equal.

You can believe Jesus is a God if you want but you can't also be a monotheist by even the most liberal definition.

So, you're a polytheist. That's cool.

Rasalghul, you are quite correct that Jesus is not God, and is inferior to God, and never claimed to be Almighty God. In fact scripture shows that he never did what Satan tried to do, namely, become equal to God:

(Philippians 2:5, 6) . . .Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.


But notice here is where you deviate from divine teaching. He did exist in God's form. That is, as a spirit creature, in heaven, at Jehovah's side. When he came to earth he had to give up that spirit body and God transferred him to the womb of Mary, and he was born a human:

(Philippians 2:7) . . .No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human.


So while not being God, he was indeed a spirit-begotten son of God, who lived in heaven eons of time before coming to earth. And in that since he could be called "a god." Jesus used the Holy Scriptures to reason with the religious leaders of his day, showing them that even God himself used the term "gods" in scripture to refer to certain humans:

(John 10:34-36) . . .Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

a reply to: JackReyes
John is ok but I don't follow the leaven of the Pharisees and wolf of the tribe of Benjamin Saul of Tarsus.

Anyway I don't disagree with anything else you said. There is one God. Jesus is the Messiah and not God.

Personally the whole thing gets suspicious though because the virgin birth prophecy is a mistranslation, making Matthew and the whole story questionable.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: JackReyes
John is ok but I don't follow the leaven of the Pharisees and wolf of the tribe of Benjamin Saul of Tarsus.

Anyway I don't disagree with anything else you said. There is one God. Jesus is the Messiah and not God.

Personally the whole thing gets suspicious though because the virgin birth prophecy is a mistranslation, making Matthew and the whole story questionable.

I respect that. Just as I do everyone else's beliefs. Some still believe that Jesus is God. At least you have gotten past that falsehood. You have done well.

Perhaps in the future your faith will become more solid in God's word. But I won't argue with you over the scriptures you don't agree with. At least we have something in common we understand. And that is commendable.

a reply to: 2012newstart

I have to add important info to my own previous post. Sorry I don't have time for quarrels. Enjoy your right.

biblehub.com...

Daniel 8 , KJV
10And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.


It seems that the...(antichrist called for simplicity) ...will win star wars against other benevolent ET because of their sins. Host means exactly that in the Bible language. Angelic host. Here we hear the host committed sins. Other translations conveniently change it to the newer phrase " Lord's people" but it simply is not the same.

So my purely hypothetical suggestion of coliders and nukes being used as blackmail of the surrounding star systems, may be quite well versed in the Bible. IF we are at that time.

Please, do not pay attention to me. I will not discuss heatedly about my belief or yours. I ANALYZE what could be logically achieved. If someone wants to help join the process of deciphering the truth. May be I chose the wrong thread for that, sorry.

a reply to: JackReyes
Yes that is good. I have much faith, I don't reject the bible, Pauls story is (to me) important to show even in Jesus era people could be easily led astray by a false prophet who claims to have communicated with Jesus, despite his warnings. The Apostles and all of Asia rejected Paul, so I'm not alone.

I read also that our generation has the Holy Spirit as God. The Holy Spirit is the Most High God because he is the unblasphemable one, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. He gives truth to those who only ask.

Nobody has ever seen the Holy Spirit except as the dove. So I have no problem believing in the mysterious Holy Spirit of the Most High God. I pray, he answers, every time.

Jesus is not God, he is God's very first creation, before even the physical universe existed, before any other angel.
This enabled him to actually die, if only for a few hours, to pay the ransom, and then be resurrected by his father.
What the trinity people fail to understand is God can't die, but Jesus could. God needed his most loyal and devoted entity in the universe to get this done, to answer Satan and redeem mankind. Trinity people unknowingly deny the ransom of Christ, that is serious. I don't blame them they have been brainwashed by the same clergy that was burning bibles when William Tyndale was tying to get them translated and distributed so people could read it.

This was under constant debate until the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century, where after you couldn't talk about it openly like we do today, otherwise you would be branded a heretic, and be subjected to unpleasantness.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Is not there a difference between Physical death and Spiritual death?

Jesus did not die spiritually and because of his righteousness death had no power over him. Jesus even said, "I lay down my Life and I take it up again"

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Spiritual death is what John called the second death in which those who are not saved are cast into the lake of fire.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Re 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So are you saying that the preserved word of God is wrong in showing that Christ is God the Word?

John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
1Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.