The Origin of the Universe

I've watched several times over Cosmos: A Space Time Odyssey. It's an amazing series. Though I tend to lean toward creationism, there's no doubt in my mind as to the validity of Niel DeGrass Tyson's analysis.

Why can't science and religion work together. We can barely conceptualizer biblical time scales. Let alone archaoligocal time scales.

Why can't one another support each other?

Why did the wriitten language spark millennium of death and persecution?

Is it really about a new world order? Or have we really accepted that we are so far alone in the universe?

For me, it feels like we are seperated from whatever is out there.

I can only hope that whatever it is that is holding us back from a galactic community can be overcome.

Further, is our thanks due more toward artificial selection or natural selection?

a reply to: EternalSolace

Why can't one another support each other?

because they are opposites in so many ways.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Dogma


a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

or

a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Can such polar opposites not lead to tha same conclusion?

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Can such polar opposites not lead to tha same conclusion?

I guess it depends who you ask...from my corner...the divide in concepts is too great. Accepting one inevitably excludes the other.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Can such polar opposites not lead to tha same conclusion?

Not really. One runs on solid evidence and observation, the other runs on blind faith (that is, if you mean a religion in the sense of Christian, Muslim, etc). There is no proof what so ever, and in fact there is more logic that disproves religion than then there is logic backing it. How could they support one and other? That makes no sense. Science doesn't say a god didn't create the universe, we just don't know.

The idea that they haven't supported each other from the beginning is a weird idea to me. Humans created and/or evolved both science and religion over many thousands of years. I'm sure most people knew of both.. what 100 years ago most people were religious, right? I wonder how many scientists believed in god?

originally posted by: EternalSolace

Why can't science and religion work together.

Because science will always ask who created the creator.

When Alchemy was bisected into "Science" and "Everything else" we saw the last true collaboration of the two in my humble opinion.

I think it's interesting that something isn't considered legit until "Science" proves it's existence, whether it was understood before hand for what it was or not.

If I were to state that a magical fluid gives me the ability to travel great distances while relaxing in a seated position, Many would scoff and consider it fantasy until Science proved whether or not Gasoline was capable of it.

I'd tell you what i think, but i'd ruin your thread with my final response.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
When Alchemy was bisected into "Science" and "Everything else" we saw the last true collaboration of the two in my humble opinion.

I think it's interesting that something isn't considered legit until "Science" proves it's existence, whether it was understood before hand for what it was or not.

If I were to state that a magical fluid gives me the ability to travel great distances while relaxing in a seated position, Many would scoff and consider it fantasy until Science proved whether or not Gasoline was capable of it.

The problem is that we now know how dumb we were before science.

Science is why we don't still live like they did just 100 years ago.

Look at Africa or the middle east, religion rules them, they live like animals.

Religion is the killer of logic and reason, that is why Africa and the Middle East still burn witches.

a reply to: Sargeras

Did I mention or defend "Religion"?

The ones who built and engineered the Great pyramids, Created Stonehenge, Astronomically aligned the Great standing stones of the ancient world, created the written word, developed mathematics etc were not "Dumb" simply because they lacked our modern "Science"

originally posted by: Sargeras

originally posted by: SLAYER69
When Alchemy was bisected into "Science" and "Everything else" we saw the last true collaboration of the two in my humble opinion.

I think it's interesting that something isn't considered legit until "Science" proves it's existence, whether it was understood before hand for what it was or not.

If I were to state that a magical fluid gives me the ability to travel great distances while relaxing in a seated position, Many would scoff and consider it fantasy until Science proved whether or not Gasoline was capable of it.

The problem is that we now know how dumb we were before science.

Science is why we don't still live like they did just 100 years ago.

Look at Africa or the middle east, religion rules them, they live like animals.

Religion is the killer of logic and reason, that is why Africa and the Middle East still burn witches.

You really have to come out of your cave dude, do you ever travel or just watch the tell lie vision?

If you believe mankind is getting smarter by the day it is time to open your eyes

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: EternalSolace

Dogma


a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

or

a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

Love it!

I have no dog in that fight between creation or big bang because both are dogma. I like to keep my options open

a reply to: EternalSolace

They can go together fine as science doesn't care about belief... we create things every day and we destroy every day everything but energy.

As for the origin of the universe? It's the same as energy it was neither created nor can it be destroyed, as the particles found in it coalesce into large chunks these large chunks cause more and more pressure as the particles try to achieve a equilibrium through charged particle swaps... when a particle dips into equilibrium from an electron swap it causes wave lengths of radiation or light and heat. This light and heat combined with so many possible swaps and entanglements of particles give rise to all matter... all the building blocks for life to go from simple to complex are found in space... now put some of that on a planet that has formed water and you get a nice cosmic soup to stir around with mass lightning from static charges pulling Frankenstein maneuvers as it electrifies anything it comes into contact with... without the electrical current that can neither be created or destroyed flowing through ones body? Youd die.

The mass interaction of these particle swaps in the past is the background cosmic radiation... and the conglomerated particles on a larger scale that are not entangled locally but casually is dark matter when this conglomerate unbounded sea of particles is propelled by cosmic winds at amazing speeds the Casimir effect occurs at the more turbulent edges of this cosmic wind causing dark energy... and gravity is simply a strong standing electromagnetic wave of large masses of entangled particles closer to atomic equilibrium than those in space ie planets etc.

One of my science professors one day said the reason he believed in god was because science couldn't explain why after the Earth cooled life started rapidly forming... I raised my hand and said frozen food left on the counter does the same thing with bacteria. He stood motionless mouth slightly agape for a minute, then said class dismissed... im assuming it was for an ensuing existential crisis... he never said but he quit mentioning god in class as he often did previously.

Anyway thats my theory... no creation necessary as a reason for life starting unless you want a child... even then that is just a particle arrangement with a lil bio electric energy transference... and poof living moving sperm alive on its own now, mixed right up from your own body.

Christianity works well with science, just not the pseudo sciences

Reality teaches us that atheists hate anything that would indicate the possibility of God, there is no chance they could accept anything related to the spiritual

They can't even admit they don't know never mind accept unknown

a reply to: Sargeras

Yet it was the reformation that brought education to the West

Talk about a statement with no logic or reason

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Christianity works well with science, just not the pseudo sciences

Reality teaches us that atheists hate anything that would indicate the possibility of God, there is no chance they could accept anything related to the spiritual

They can't even admit they don't know never mind accept unknown

Im an atheist thanks for the generalization... peoples concept for a god existent or not doesn't concern me... except in the way that concept when taken to extremes and not just the philosophy of living that it is... causes a lot of strife and fighting for oh I dunno 1000s of years not to mention all the suppression for anything countering belief like the sun does circle the earth... you know people were killed for stating that fact by people that believed without fact... that comes across as hate in my book as does the ethnic cleansing of genocide due to belief and not facts.

Bare in mind I've seen unidentified flying objects... aliens? Meh, that would make it an identified flying object... and a full body apparition standing right next to me once... which I still don't need to believe in as an actual fact... because existing or not doesn't have any effect on my day to day life, and the senses can be fooled I only saw it, I didnt smell it, hear it, taste it, or touch it... same business as all the many gods people have claimed existent over thousands of years haven't had any effect except by those believing in it giving it arms legs and a will to carry out stuff in its name... still dont hate them for it though.

So generalization fail

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

You know what
Generalizations fail, I stand corrected

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Excellent post.
You summed up my feelings on the issue eloquently. Other than the atheist part...I keep my options open to any and all possibilities since the Universe appears to be infinite, for now anyway.
Things can and do still go bump in the night and many things still remain without a certain explanation. But we as thinking people cannot allow either organized religion or science for that matter since they have been wrong and forceful in their dogma as well to suppress the free exchange of ideas.