Why as libertarian I would consider voting for Bernie Sanders

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: interupt42

Vote libertarian anyway.

Stop being a following the herd.

A libertarian thinking about voting for Bernie Sanders is following the herd?

Perhaps you might be following a different herd , but a herd nonetheless if you only stay within your party no matter what.

The Libertarian party has no shot what so ever, it has been proven time and time again.

This is about the potential of a return in investment in the long term ,from the likely lack luster of candidates (Trump,Clinton,Sanders,Rubio,Cruz,Bush) to be selected for presidency.

Its a long shot strategy to making the best out of the Sh1tty selection we have and hopefully opening the door for a third party down the road. However, all other strategies have not worked. The Two party system is too corrupted for a third party to get a fair shot.

originally posted by: interupt42

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: interupt42

Vote libertarian anyway.

Stop being a following the herd.

A libertarian thinking about voting for Bernie Sanders is following the herd?

Perhaps you might be following a different herd , but a herd nonetheless if you only stay within your party no matter what.
I protest with my vote.
The Libertarian party has no shot what so ever, it has been proven time and time again.
I don't care. I will not vote for the democrats or the republicans. At some point you have to make a stand

This is about the potential of a return in investment in the long term ,from the likely lack luster of candidates (Trump,Clinton,Sanders,Rubio,Cruz,Bush) to be selected for presidency. Its making the best out of the Sh1tty selection we have and hopefully opening the door for a third party down the road.

I am not voting for any of them because I don't support their policies.

Are you a political shill coming in trying to draw some independents and libertarians to the GOP?

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

Are you a political shill coming in trying to draw some independents and libertarians to the GOP?

Yes, That is why If you look through my post history I constantly trash the GOP for being no better than the democrats when it comes to big govt. You caught me. The only time I backed the GOP was with Ron Paul who I contributed to his campaign.

How about we argue on the premise and not deflection of my ideals which I stated. In the OP I stated why I believe in Libertarian principles and why I don't like Big govt nor think socialism will work , but why Bernie might be the best option of the likely candidates to win: that COULD actually make a difference for third party.

Its not about voting for the lesser evil ,Its about going against the herd and taking a chance on something that might actually benefit a third party.


Perhaps MystikMushroom said it better than I did.

This is more about the longer-term game plan than the next four years. Getting a handle on the money being used to influence our government seems to be primary issue number ONE before we can start doing anything else. The people are NEVER going to have a voice as long as huge companies are pouring millions into campaigns and lobbyist groups. We just don't matter to those voting in congress. Until we matter -- until our representatives truly represent US and not special interests...nothing either side wants on an ideological level will take place.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You vote for the candidates that have policies you support.

When you vote you are saying " I support your policies and executive direction."

I am a libertarian so I'll vote for someone that has libertarian policies and a libertarian direction.

If your a libertarian you shouldn't be voting for any of those two mega-corp CFR owned parties.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

You vote for the candidates that have policies you support.

Would agree but that only makes sense if the system wasn't corrupted. Right now the only policies and ideals being implemented are those set by an Oligarch.

We can can continue to vote along our party lines like it has been done for centuries and stump our chest all we want, but the reality is that has been proved to be a loosing strategy.

The best thing for the future of the libertarian party and the future off all other third party is to get rid of the corruption within congress, the DNC, and the GOP. The libertarian party or all political ideals will never we heard until that corruption is dealt with.

So we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend our vote for our ideals that will never get implemented means something, or try to come up with a strategy using the hand we are given to try to change that and actually implement our ideals.

I just don't see any political ideal besides the Oligarch that we have being implemented until corruption becomes the number 1 issue in DC and at the Forefront by the president.

Summary:
Corruption should be a higher priority than political ideals right now , because with it no political ideals is being implemented besides and Oligarch

So we can realize that and deal with it , or we continue to pretend we are awesome and superior to the republicans and the democrats when in reality we would be equally as naive.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

You vote for the candidates that have policies you support.

Would agree but that only makes sense if the system wasn't corrupted. Right now the only policies and ideals being implemented are those set by an Oligarch.

We can can continue to vote along our party lines like it has been done for centuries and stump our chest all we want, but the reality is that has been proved to be a loosing strategy.

I don't care if its a losing strategy. I am not voting for them. This defeatist mentality does not help the situation.

The best thing for the future of the libertarian party and the future off all other third party is to get rid of the corruption within congress, the DNC, and the GOP. The libertarian party or all political ideals will never we heard until that corruption is dealt with.

I agree.

So we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend our vote for our ideals that will never get implemented means something, or try to come up with a strategy using the hand we are given to try to change that and actually implement our ideals.

My vote might "never get implemented" but its still a vote and I vote against the them. By NOT voting for the two party political cartel you are doing more than voting FOR the two party political cartel.

I just don't see any political ideal besides the Oligarch that we have being implemented until corruption becomes the number 1 issue in DC and at the Forefront by the president.

No. You don't have to vote for the oligarch. No one is forcing you to vote for those two fascist parties.

Summary:
Corruption should be a higher priority than political ideals right now , because with it no political ideals is being implemented besides and Oligarch

?????. The "can't beat 'em join 'em" defeatist strategy. Nah that's OK I am still voting for a libertarian

So we can realize that and deal with it , or we continue to pretend we are awesome and superior to the republicans and the democrats when in reality we would be equally as naive.

I am not voting to be superior to a political party. I am voting for a candidate that shares my views on policies and executive direction

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

No. You don't have to vote for the oligarch. No one is forcing you to vote for those two fascist parties.

Never said anything about being forced , but the truth of the matter is regardless of your vote the two fascist parties will win. Hence , why corruption needs to be issue number 1.

?????. The "can't beat 'em join 'em" defeatist strategy. Nah that's OK I am still voting for a libertarian

Who said anything about join em. Its about strategy for a possible long term investment for your party and your ideals.

political ideals mean nothing in a corrupted system, would you not agree?

a reply to: interupt42

If your a libertarian vote for a libertarian with libertarian policies.

Why should I as a libertarian vote for the two-party political cartel?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Dude...I've known liberal-minded Libertarians.

Being a "libertarian" doesn't mean you have to be pigeonholed into being conservative.

SMH.

Exactly. Considering I was pinpointed as left-leaning Lib by a staunch right-leaning one (and not knocked for it)

I think people might need to do some serious studying on not just the textbook definition of Libertarian, but the underlying mantra of "meet in the middle". We're very willing to compromise if it means accomplishing something worthwhile. Hence, I'll vote Rep if need be it, or Dem. I don't particularly care to vote along party lines if I can help it, the party isn't what matters. It's the issues and resolutions that do.

People who can't understand this & adapt to it -- compromise -- are the problem. Not those who lean towards a category, but are willing to forego party rigidity in favor of actual results.

a reply to: Nyiah

I thought libertarians are...

-against centralized power.
-against all income taxes.
-don't trust centralized power.
-for heavy restrains on state power.
-against state enforcement of morality
-for decentralized state power.
-for the non-aggression principle
-against victimless crime.
-against violent theft and the use of threats of violence as coercion.

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: Nyiah

I thought libertarians are...

-against centralized power.
-against all income taxes.
-don't trust centralized power.
-for heavy restrains on state power.
-against state enforcement of morality
-for decentralized state power.
-for the non-aggression principle
-against victimless crime.
-against violent theft and the use of threats of violence as coercion.

They are. However, if no one was willing to compromise on anything, nothing would ever get done in the first place, unless every single person in the country was a member of the One Train of Thought Party. As you may have noticed, there's multiple political parties in this country, denoting multiple political ethos. That means stomping feet & pouting over not getting a particular way is bullchit, and therefore there needs to be people willing to not be politically rigid if we don't want political stalemates to be the Holy American Thing.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: John_Rodger_Cornman
a reply to: Nyiah

I thought libertarians are...

-against centralized power.
-against all income taxes.
-don't trust centralized power.
-for heavy restrains on state power.
-against state enforcement of morality
-for decentralized state power.
-for the non-aggression principle
-against victimless crime.
-against violent theft and the use of threats of violence as coercion.

They are. However, if no one was willing to compromise on anything, nothing would ever get done in the first place, unless every single person in the country was a member of the One Train of Thought Party. As you may have noticed, there's multiple political parties in this country, denoting multiple political ethos. That means stomping feet & pouting over not getting a particular way is bullchit, and therefore there needs to be people willing to not be politically rigid if we don't want political stalemates to be the Holy American Thing.

I am not voting for the Republicans or the Democrats.

They are too authoritarian.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

I am not voting for the Republicans or the Democrats.

Nobody is forcing you and its your right.

However IMO I think their is a possibility to make a positive difference for a third party (including the libertarian party) with this election by electing a candidate that will bring corruption to the forefront.

As long as corruption is not brought to the forefront Republican,Democrat,Libertarian, and all party ideals with the exception of an Oligarch will continue to lose.

They are too authoritarian.

Agreed