OR Under UN Mercenary Occupation Judge Darby call to US Military Major General

a reply to: TrueBrit

I would like to say, in general, that even though I don't "agree" with your posts and assertions at times, I have always had the greatest respect for your integrity and intellect.

However, in this case, I think, perhaps you have accorded a great deal more credit to these Bundys/Sovreign Citizens/Constitutional Sheriffs and Judges/Militia-Gun Clubs than they deserve.

This "Judge" Gary is not some outlier, rogue element in these groups ... he, and the things he's saying, are entirely typical of the AVERAGE MEMBER and the organizations' CORE VALUES.

These people are, by and large, good folks who have been deluded completely as to the way the American system of government actually functions. Others are using these vast number of pawns for their own agendas and advancement.

In my opinion. My only reason for addressing this to you directly is that I think you may want to give these groups another look ... they are not what they seem to be.

Thanks for your time.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Believe you me Gryphon66, I am not taking what Judge Darby says at face value.

What I am saying is, that in the event of there being mercenaries involved, it would be the United States government, and not the IMF who were the hiring agency responsible for enlisting the aid of such persons.

Also, regardless of the absurdity of the movement to which these individuals belong, and its ideals, we must also remember that we saw one of them shot while clearly in a submissive posture. Even the most idiotic individual does not deserve to just be riddled with bullets, and denied due process, just because they happen to be a moron.

My reference to the constitutional aspects of the case as it stands, was in relation to the issue of the existence of these groups in general, how they roll, and what forces are ranged against them, not to mention what constitutional protections they do, or do not have.

As far as I am concerned, the individuals who took over the sanctuary have their screws loose, but the response must be proportionate and careful, and not involve lead being thrown!

By the way, who is this Darby bloke anyway? I cannot find anything on him that says that his title of 'constitutional judge' is anything other than a self-awarded and therefore worthless title.

This has 18 flags?? Man what a good title and a youtube video of just some random guy talking about some random stuff can get ya! Not even the OP is defending this anymore.

a reply to: TrueBrit

What a pleasurable response to read! Makes me remember the days when debates were civil and cogent!

I agree with you that we cannot stand by when ANYONE tramples our civil rights. Whether the government, zealots, or anyone else. There are, undoubtedly, abuses by law enforcement in this country, and abuses by government action and we cannot stand by and watch those go unchecked forever. But ... the government itself (our system vis-a-vis the Constitution, State Constitutions, et. al.) is still in my opinion (apologies to Her Majesty) the best system of government in the world ... in essence ... in theory ... in philosophy.

I would agree that the people who administer the systems are as subject to human failings as we all are ... and power corrupts.

The clarification points I would make to that are two, however: 1) not every LEO is corrupt or homicidal and 2) we can decry the actions of government PERSONNEL while still respecting the system of government they falsely represent.

The issue is not with the government itself, per se, but with those that hold the power of government, at whatever level.

However, and I do not mean to make this the turning point ... you see something completely different in the video than I do. I have seen killings by law enforcement that were questionable, and I know of others that were downright murderous. This tragedy, in my opinion, was neither.

As to the rest, I don't disagree with anything you've said generally or philosophically. Thank you very much for the response.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
This has 18 flags?? Man what a good title and a youtube video of just some random guy talking about some random stuff can get ya! Not even the OP is defending this anymore.

Likely, the OP realized that he had been duped by a prankster.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: Sremmos80

I don't believe for one minute, that judge Gary Dean Darby would risk his standing reputation on just a silly rummer to call the military.

uhh...I don't think he is the kind of "Judge" you are imaginging...

He appears to have declared himself "Judge" and invented the title and authority for himself?

green-island-project.net...

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Gryphon66



Also, regardless of the absurdity of the movement to which these individuals belong, and its ideals, we must also remember that we saw one of them shot while clearly in a submissive posture.

I really do have to challenge that...All he had to do was stand still with his hands up and say "I am unarmed and surrender"

vs.

Stuff a 9 mm into his inside jacket pocket, exit the vehicle and start moving quickly while repeatedly reaching for the weapon whilst shouting "just shoot me".

Nothing submissive about his posture.

originally posted by: Indigo5

I really do have to challenge that...All he had to do was stand still with his hands up and say "I am unarmed and surrender"

How do you know he wasn't doing what the police were telling him to do?

How do you know what he said or didn't say?

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Indigo5

I really do have to challenge that...All he had to do was stand still with his hands up and say "I am unarmed and surrender"

How do you know he wasn't doing what the police were telling him to do?

How do you know what he said or didn't say?

According to the Militia Girls testimony he was shouting "just shoot me"..

And I doubt the police were shouting...reach for you gun!..Again!...and if they did, the eye witnesses (girls in truck) did not hear it.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Indigo5

I really do have to challenge that...All he had to do was stand still with his hands up and say "I am unarmed and surrender"

How do you know he wasn't doing what the police were telling him to do?

How do you know what he said or didn't say?

According to the Militia Girls testimony he was shouting "just shoot me"..

And I doubt the police were shouting...reach for you gun!..Again!...and if they did, the eye witnesses (girls in truck) did not hear it.

They may have been able to hear what was going on, but they couldn't have seen what was going on because they SAID they were on the floorboards for protection against the "hundreds of bullets" being shot at the truck. Miraculously, neither one of them were hit by these bullets, this despite the fact that the truck's "armor" consists of two pieces of sheet metal. (I have a truck just like it.)

a reply to: schuyler

Did they really say "hundreds of bullets?" Because I see a distinct lack of any reloads and a lot of weapons at low ready for there to have been hundreds of rounds fired at the truck.

Wait, I got it: super duper extended magazines and Corner Shot tech on the weapons.

Boom. Solved it.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Indigo5

I really do have to challenge that...All he had to do was stand still with his hands up and say "I am unarmed and surrender"

How do you know he wasn't doing what the police were telling him to do?

How do you know what he said or didn't say?

According to the Militia Girls testimony he was shouting "just shoot me"..

And I doubt the police were shouting...reach for you gun!..Again!...and if they did, the eye witnesses (girls in truck) did not hear it.

They may have been able to hear what was going on, but they couldn't have seen what was going on because they SAID they were on the floorboards for protection against the "hundreds of bullets" being shot at the truck. Miraculously, neither one of them were hit by these bullets, this despite the fact that the truck's "armor" consists of two pieces of sheet metal. (I have a truck just like it.)

None of the above is accurate..

Victoria Sharp Interview..

LaVoy got out of the vehicle, put his hands up and said "Shoot me"..."If you're gonna shoot, just shoot me"

"He was stumbling, losing his balance a little bit, but he had his hands up the whole time"

(Video shows that this is not accurate...he reached for his pockets near immediately and 3 times in total)
(BTW - whilst getting your balance in snow, putting your hands in your pocket makes you much less balanced - he had purpose to his reach)

"And then the next thing you know they shot him, three consecutive shots"

This moment is indisputably what we see in the video when he goes down.

"We saw him go down as the first three shots hit him"

Her story aligns with the FBI story with the exception of her claim that "He had his hands up the whole time"

1:18:20
"because the bullets stopped coming when we stopped, when the vehicle stopped"

"3 consecutive shots, like at the same time hit him"

(Interviewer obviously digging for prior shots to account for LaVoy reaching for waist)
Interviewer: So you heard three shots, pop, pop, pop..

"Yes"

"We saw him go down right as the first 3 shots hit"

a reply to: Indigo5

The shots came first, then he lowered his hands.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: schuyler

Did they really say "hundreds of bullets?" Because I see a distinct lack of any reloads and a lot of weapons at low ready for there to have been hundreds of rounds fired at the truck.

Wait, I got it: super duper extended magazines and Corner Shot tech on the weapons.

Boom. Solved it.

Yeah, but we're talking International French Illuminati Mercs here ... who knows "what" kinds of weapons they have.

(Or characters from a video game ... one or the other)

(About the same really)

(Imaginary.)

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Indigo5

The shots came first, then he lowered his hands.

How do you know the shots came first?

How do you know he lowered his hands?

a reply to: Gryphon66

It is a pleasure to participate in discussion of this nature, when doing so with members who understand the concept of discussion and learning from it.

Ironically, we are displaying the sort of rationality and capacity for peaceful disagreement, that neither the federal government of the United States, or the protestors/militia/Bundarians are showing at the moment. Perhaps we ought to direct both parties to read in on the topics, as they come up? It might teach them something?

a reply to: Gryphon66

pretty easy to see in the videos

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Gryphon66

pretty easy to see in the videos

Where's your proof?

People's lives are at stake here; hearsay evidence will not suffice.

Prove there were shots that made Mr. Finicum lower his hands (as he was obviously lowering his hands toward a holster).

Are you saying you can see bullets?

a reply to: xuenchen

Says you, who has no access to the sound of the video.