MK Ultra/Monarch? Other 'T.I.' Agency Contact? - Filing a Privacy Act Request for Personnel Files

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

If he was subject to corruption or harmed because of false accusations I don't see why they wouldn't investigate and rectify the situation.

But... When you start talking nonsense like "MONARCH", "MK/ULTRA" and the like then they're probably just going to ignore it and tick a mark in the "I got x amount of these this year or month".

But the OP would definitely find more happiness in life if they found a hobby or something. Not trying to be rude or anything, but starting a business, learning an instrument, painting, or something would be beneficial.

a reply to: gpols

But... When you start talking nonsense like "MONARCH", "MK/ULTRA" and the like

Okay, I must admit, I am confused. How, exactly, is well documented official CIA programs 'nonsense'?

Is it that you meant, the claim that these programs have continued in secret is unsubstantiated? If so, I ask merely this. Think about MK/Ultra for a second. CIA attempts at controlling peoples minds, right? Looking at it critically, if they were willing to go to that extent(experimenting, on American citizens, to literally control their minds) in the first place, why the hell would they ever stop? Especially considering the fact that, during this operation, they had substantial, also well documented success? 'Oh, because the American population found out about it, its time to stop?' Said no corrupt official, ever.

I hate to use Wikipedia but:

Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975 by the Church Committee of the U.S. Congress, and a Gerald Ford commission to investigate CIA activities within the United States. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKUltra files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.[13]

That's Forty-six years since it became public knowledge. 46 years, and I'd be willing to bet that most americans don't know about this. I know firsthand, that among the people I have talked to about this topic IRL that were or were not knowledgeable of MK/Ultra prior to said conversation, the typical response is "Oh, well. Big bad government doing its thing, nothing I can do about it" to paraphrase.

Now, coupled with the above knowledge and a healthy amount of skepticism, how does one come to the conclusion that these people simply dropped all efforts in this end, other than naively/maliciously?

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Because, we have people here that like to talk nonsense. It was funny at first, but then it got old. They make really ridiculous statements, but are articulate enough to get them a pass from the layman. hahaha - or something like that.

Anyway I agree with what you said earlier mostly, but at the risk of repeating myself, its the principle of the thing. I'm not forgiving or negotiating, im just filing a request. Also, it is important to realize that the alphabet soup, and even each individual agency or otherwise, are far from one entity/person/agenda... Not everyone within is on the 'same side' so to speak.

Thanks for your input above.

originally posted by: gpols
a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

If he was subject to corruption or harmed because of false accusations I don't see why they wouldn't investigate and rectify the situation.

But... When you start talking nonsense like "MONARCH", "MK/ULTRA" and the like then they're probably just going to ignore it and tick a mark in the "I got x amount of these this year or month".

But the OP would definitely find more happiness in life if they found a hobby or something. Not trying to be rude or anything, but starting a business, learning an instrument, painting, or something would be beneficial.

You've gone to speculating and giving advice about my life which you know nothing about? Hahaha. I think you should take your own advice, instead of wasting time writing nonsense... You must really need a life.

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
That depends on your definition of 'insane'. Personally, no, I would not consider you to be insane (or anywhere near it). You're obviously lucid, coherent, and intelligent, and your thinking/writing doesn't appear to be disorganized. You just seem to suffer from disassociate amnesia and derealization. Your diagnosis supports this.

OP writes to all these agencies, gets information back = proof he was a victim.

OP writes to these agencies, receives no or negative reply = proof he was a victim.

So no matter what reply he receives, it shows he was a victim!

originally posted by: Apoceclipse
Because, we have people here that like to talk nonsense. .... They make really ridiculous statements, but are articulate enough to get them a pass from the layman. hahaha - or something like that.

Very true and accurate!

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Okay, I must admit, I am confused. How, exactly, is well documented official CIA programs 'nonsense'?

What I mean, is all but 20k documents were destroyed from MkUltra. The best you could do is find those 20k documents and read them for yourself.

I don't know what more they could tell you that you couldn't find out yourself. Not to mention the person that handles these requests aren't going to be read into classified programs and probably don't have clearance to even learn of these programs existence.

It's also as I mentioned before, if you were to find out you were being experimented on there isn't anything you could do about it unless you could gather enough evidence that the people were in violation of the law and find out those peoples names.

If you just say "I'm being experimented on by the government as part of the MKUltra program" and you don't present any proof of your claims they are going to rightfully call you crazy.

What I'm saying is that if you were an unwilling participant in an experiment being conducted by the government the only people that would know that are the people conducting the experiment and their superiors and only if they get smoked out would you become aware of being experimented on.

It's "nonsense" because nobody but the people involved with the projects would know about the program. The person manning the desk printing out arrest reports, or incident reports at a terminal as the requests come in isn't going to have any knowledge of classified program.

As the saying goes, "You're barking up the wrong tree".

a reply to: gpols

So by this logic, nothing gets released through the FOIA or PA, ever? Get real. You talk alot, that's for sure

a reply to: Apoceclipse

You have to know about the programs existence first before you can file a FOIA request. If you don't have any proof of a program how can you file a FOIA request about it?

You're just taking shots in the dark.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Are you able to provide any evidence that these programs have stopped?

Are you able to provide any credible evidence that Project Monarch even existed in the first place?

a reply to: gpols

... Wow. Your ignorance amazes me. The chance of me getting paperwork back is a shot in the dark, as I have stated. I know program names, locations, people involved, fronts, all sorts of vital info. I did this for a long time. I was involved in these programs and I did not mention all the specifics nor at what capacity (which varied).

Alot of the REDACTED info is names/ranks/affiliations/employers/ - notarized statements including of someone who was in the 160th very officially and so much more. Quit talking nonsense.

The reason I REDACTED the info is twofold. One, I do not have permission to share certain things publicly, and two, I previously posted alot of the info here on ATS, and was warned and had my posts deleted. I can't just go naming very detailed people places and crimes if it isn't a case closed sort of things. Familiarize yourself with how these online forums (and libel suits etc.) work before you go running your mouth, not to mention some people asking for 'proof'. Ha...

a reply to: Apoceclipse

If you were involved with these programs and have first hand knowledge why are you wasting time on a forum on the internet? Why aren't you working with a lawyer to obtain this information?

You know who else had first hand knowledge of programs like MkUltra? Frank Olsen.

a reply to: DelMarvel

As for MONARCH, no. That would be pretty hard. If there was a list of these type of programs to be declassified on a timeline, though... It's coming up. If you actually provided 'proof', especially on a public forum or something, you would be MAJORLY breaking the law. It is still classified. Some people say slang, but I am 100% that MONARCH is in fact a "codename". See, more than anything, to me, it is about the principle of it all, and stirring the pot up a bit. Haha

a reply to: gpols

... Re read this thread and maybe it will finally sink in. I am trying to raise awareness and get others to seek recourse as well. This is one (albiet small) step.

I've BEEN working with lawyers, even getting creative to prosecute through a variation of fraud where the statute of limitations has expired/if the motion to extend it fails. Also with civil matters. Also with other matters. Really none of your business. Yes, Frank Olsen would be a very credible reference of an example. They pulled a good stunt on me back in '09 as well, but it only broke up one side of my body mostly. I survived. Obviously. Now this is one thing I do.

I've long wondered...

If someone was to survey all of the people who claim to have been experimented upon, if there would emerge some kind of pattern?

I mean, I hate to say it ... but the people that claim to have been experimented on don't seem to out of the ordinary? I mean, it's not like they had parents in the CIA or something or exhibited odd mental powers as small children. For the most part, these folks seem as average as anyone else...

There must be some common trait the people all have? Genetic perhaps?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I've long wondered...

If someone was to survey all of the people who claim to have been experimented upon, if there would emerge some kind of pattern?

I mean, I hate to say it ... but the people that claim to have been experimented on don't seem to out of the ordinary? I mean, it's not like they had parents in the CIA or something or exhibited odd mental powers as small children. For the most part, these folks seem as average as anyone else...

There must be some common trait the people all have? Genetic perhaps?

I know a bit about this. There is also information online as far as 'surveys' etc for people who claim extreme abuse/mind control/ritualabuse/experimentation etc...

We could get into a few categories of interest and methods of securing subjects continuously etc... but I do feel this would be best suited in a separate thread, geared towards exploring that, and not one about filing PA requests...

Although this has turned into a bit of a # show already...

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I don't know. I just think if someone really had first hand knowledge of illegal classified experiments most media outlets would jump at a story like that. Would even classify under whistle blower protection. Surely this person is already experiencing some kind of blowback for divulging the information they already have. So why not go all the way to the media with it.

Either way I'm done with this thread, because there are a lot of similarities in this persons story compared to what I have read with other peoples stories.

originally posted by: Apoceclipse
a reply to: DelMarvel

As for MONARCH, no. That would be pretty hard. If there was a lost of these type of programs to be declassified on a timeline, though... It's coming up. If you actually provided 'proof', especially on a public forum or something, you would be MAJORLY breaking the law.

Project Monarch is all over the internet so it's pretty hard to argue that people can't talk about it because it's against the law. I've looked into this extensively and my conclusion is there is no evidence of Project Monarch outside of the testimony of people claiming to be victims.

a reply to: gpols

Things dont always work like you think, and just because you have seen other 'whistleblowers' in the media does not mean the story you hear from the media about the situation is 100% true and not scripted/staged etc. Also, there are other things to consider, lifestyle change of one who is more public, threat level of one who is more public. Other things just brainstorming, not saying these weigh on me. I don't have much to show the media, myself. I didn't steal a ton of NSA and other intelligence documents... Or anything real flashy like that...

Oh, so you are done because of similarities? Do you see a pattern?

Oh and, good. Bye

a reply to: DelMarvel

You can talk about whatever you want. I'm talking about providing stolen or leaked documents that are classified. That would be proof. I can't really blame you for taking this view, although I would not classify myself as a victim for one, and two, if you don't understand the difference in the first thing we were talking about, I really don't blame you for taking your view. Ha... Am I a funny guy or what