Well, of course ATS has a lot of liberal members!

originally posted by: awareness10

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE


Liberals will desire for a utopia is changing everything we are. Remove how we naturally label others and group others. Change that we get angry and sometimes violent, etc. In short...a utopian society is not where we are. Just because we can do bits and pieces of it when forced to do so...forcing a dog not to bark doesn't make it better, it changes what it is and forces it to repress itself. Yes...an annoying thing, but still what it is.

I am against all that. I don't want dogs that don't bark. I don't want lions that don't kill, snakes that don't bite nor monkeys that don't fling their poo. I don't want to dress them up in a tux and have them chit-chat about current events while sipping wine. That is not what they are and they are beautiful AS they are. So are we. We have our faults, we have a number of things that would be nice to change and maybe they will. But until they change naturally...forcing such changes are not respecting ourselves and basking in the beauty of humans any more than forcing a change in our society is healthy for our country.

When we are ready to evolve further...we will. Liberals want to force it and look where we are. We aren't better off as a whole and sometimes we are just more, and more depressed and pissed off about not being allowed to speak certain words, drink certain drinks, drive certain cars or carry certain guns. Freedom includes freedom to be oneself...and even to be an ass.

Unfortunately, your Statement too, has fallen upon deaf ears.

Liberals started by championing good and needed causes. Suffrage, various child protections, racial equality, unions for safety and against indentured servitude, environmentalism when there was NO environmental protection.

It's too bad that they AND conservatives (conservationists) succeeded in fixing all of these things to a fair and reasonable level, lol..... Now they can't figure out what to do with themselves.

So they carry the flag for hoaxes like AGW, the rights of mentally ill to parade their sexual illnesses in everyone's faces, the rights of terrorists to not be maligned or stopped from their terrorism, the awesomeness of no rules and "can't say no to anything".....and of course the ultimate, the always-failed socialism / communism which can't work in reality.

And they can't figure out why America is sick of them every 4 or 8 years.

a reply to: stevieray

I know, i do actually agree with you, it 'did' start out good, Liberals, but then, as Everything that begins good went bad.

Everything seems to have an opposite effect. Now it's past normal Liberalism, it's become it's own worst Monster, and the cries of many aren't being heard because Monsters don't reason with their food, they eat it all up until there is nothing left to protest it left. And then, it all begins again.

a reply to: awareness10

That reminds me of a Kafka quote: "Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy."

He was a cheery little moppet.

a reply to: yeahright

Indeed. It does seem to doesn't it?

a reply to: awareness10

No surprise there. But it is the truth that I see...and an unwinnable battle for the liberals. You can't successfully force change in what something is by its nature.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: awareness10

No surprise there. But it is the truth that I see...and an unwinnable battle for the liberals. You can't successfully force change in what something is by its nature.

They have gotten further than you would expect, for a whole existence built on jealousy, sloth, envy, anger, and hate. Plus a whole pathos of juvenile demands, expectations, and antics.

I guess you can really ride those things pretty far as long as you're willing to publicly embarrass, shame, and denigrate yourself. But it only goes so far. The good, decent, adult folk of the world will only live with all that for certain controlled periods of time. Then it swings back to living like normal, reasonable society for a period.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

They can only take it so far, people are people, and when it comes to it, they will react instinctively since the beginning of time. In our written history anyways, Good Men have fought against things which only lean to destroy that which is good and true. I therefore agree with you, it will not succeed.

a reply to: awareness10

I don't share your faith in our society...at least not that of the USA. We have been invaded, with the help of the liberals by criminals from other countries. The black population plays the victim because they want hand-outs and favors. The liberals...well...they are liberals. The children are brainwashed by liberal teachers and lied to about what conservative means. I know that for a fact. I have two daughters in public school and the lies the teachers tell about republicans are so insane you wouldn't believe it.

Half of the people living in America (yeah...I can't even say citizens) will vote for anyone who is willing to pay them, change their diapers and wipe their asses. They have sold themselves and their freedom for trinkets and Obama-phones. Half of the USA are leeches and ticks and have no right to be here. They shouldn't have invaded our boarders and been allowed to stay...and others should have never been brought here.

One more liberal...or...excuse me SOCIALIST president and we will be too far gone to save. And in the end...as the USA goes, so will many others.

a reply to: deadlyhope

The problem some have is they see telling the truth about mass immigration, the attack on western values etc...as racism and xenophobia.
To tell the truth and back it up with evidence is the essence of "denying ignorance".
Polital correctness, support for fascist and dysfunctional entities like the E.U, acting like positive discrimination isn't still discrimination, demonising all white hIstory and brainwashing people into thinking we are the devil incarnate, that any form of national pride and love of your own culture is "right wing"...these are as ignorant, illogical and dishonest a way to behave as it's possible to get.
The left love calling Trump's supporters brown shirts, yet it's the left whose organised thugs wear black uniforms and attack those simply voicing their right to free speech...that's as Nazi as it gets.
The wise guy who said I may not agree with you but I'll defend your right to say it obviously isn't a hero of the modern fascist...the far left.
So let's not assume that denying ignorance and rejecting intolerance is about liberal, hard left principles.
It's not.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I like ATS because you hear EVERYONE'S viewpoints, not just the ones that mirror your own. There is a marked defect in the internet, in that people tend to seek out opinions and views that resemble their own, and the result is extreme polarization in politics and thinking.That is bad for us as a people globally. I am glad to see all viewpoints are represented here, it allows one to expand their perspective on things. I enjoy hearing both liberal and conservative thinking, and look for the best ideas from both perspectives.

ATS is NOT liberal. It seems to be about 40% conservative "libertarian", 30% liberal and 30% everyone else. I put libertarian in quotes because almost no one who calls themselves libertarians these days actually is one- they're just less traditional conservatives.

originally posted by: CB328
ATS is NOT liberal. It seems to be about 40% conservative "libertarian", 30% liberal and 30% everyone else. I put libertarian in quotes because almost no one who calls themselves libertarians these days actually is one- they're just less traditional conservatives.

I think your perception may be a little skewed by the fact that today's "serious liberals" are ready to adopt communism, atheism, anarchy, and post-genderism in the US....FDR and Truman would be moderates (and I even hear them label Obama as such pretty often), and JFK / MLK / LBJ would be hated conservatives. Today's liberals don't even have a word for people who want to follow or praise the constitution and American interests, only abject hate.

I'd be the first to say we need to leave "liberal" and "conservative" and their analogues "Democrat" and "Republican" far behind.

Self-identified Independents are the fastest growing group in America (39% in the last Pew poll, compared with 32% as Democrats and 23% as Republicans) Pew Research - Party Identification Trends 1992 - 2014

I am not saying that there are not unique values associated with each group. I'm saying that we need to "stand where we stand" on the issues and stop pigeon-holing ourselves. All too often that results in our wholesale purchase of political agendas that we don't agree with.

originally posted by: deadlyhope...
Let's go over the motto here - "Deny Ignorance "

Now, when talking about some modern issues, let's define "ignorance": Here are some things I believe to be ignorant - This is keeping in mind the constitution, logical reasoning, modern society, law, etc:

Anti-gay discrimination.
Minority discrimination.
Racism/Bigotry
Infringement of privacy concerning health, sexual relations/preference, religion.
State-sponsored religion.
Disagreeing with separation of church and state
Denying beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt scientific evidence.

...

In principle you make the perfect point - ATS is made up of all sorts of people, all with their own views and opinions.

I would say that it's difficult to define ignorance on the basis of issues as you have done here. From my perspective, identifying some of these in a list of "ignorant" things is actually... pretty ignorant. Or it shows a lot of ignorance as to the issue itself. I'm not going to say which ones because that's an entirely different thread, I just wanted to highlight how difficult it is to identify what ignorance really means.

You seem to have defined ignorance based on whether people agree or disagree with a list of things that you believe. I take issue with that.

That aside, as I said before, I agree with the overall premise of your post.

haha. yesssss......"IGNUNT !" is just about as useful as "WACIST !"

And what a list. No absolutes, 100% slanted terms there......

a reply to: stevieray
Just taking a look at this thread it seems both sides have a really warped version of seeing the other side. Neither side is inherently evil despite what you've been led to believe. We are all humans with emotions who want health and happiness however one defines such things. There has been a massively manufactured perspective of what the other side are like from the media. When people in real life aren't like their media portrail.

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I counted 5 anti-Conservative threads, and 2 anti-liberal threads on the front page. Just letting you know. And scrolling through on an average day will get you several anti-Trump threads. Not sure where you're seeing what you're seeing.

I have to agree. Most of the threads I see are critical of conservative thought, whereas, I see a lot of conservative posters.

Why the discrepancy? Or seems that way, I mean.

Regarding gay discrimination, I'm still skeptical of gay marriage. Bring the flames. Put "discriminator" on my profile. Call me names, if you must. Just know I have a close gay friend and never harassed a gay. I guess that don't matter. Get the noose and hang me anyway. Make a show of me so others with skeptical thoughts will be dissuaded.

That's how most of this works. People don't believe these thigns because it's right or correct. They do it because they don't wnat to be unpopular or thought of negatively. It's just simply the easiest path to long life. We're communities. Most of us are social beings and we respond strongly to social pressure. There're numerous studies backing this up. People can be made to do both good and bad with social pressure. The same thing makes people support corrupt government or otherwise do their bidding. (And yet I won't stop gays from marrying. They're marrying in my own state. I don't harass either, unless you consider this post harassment.)

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: stevieray
Just taking a look at this thread it seems both sides have a really warped version of seeing the other side. Neither side is inherently evil despite what you've been led to believe. We are all humans with emotions who want health and happiness however one defines such things. There has been a massively manufactured perspective of what the other side are like from the media. When people in real life aren't like their media portrail.

I'd have to disagree. You see the dems, liberals, progressives, leftists, whatever you want to call them, embracing socialism, communism, every ridiculous version of LGBTQQXYZinfinity, atheism, angry destructive groups like OWS, NBP, BLM, CAIR, MB, LA RAZA, RECONCUESTA, and so on. You see this, it's happening, every day. It's not opinion or hyperbole that this is happening, it's reality.

Yet, the other way it's "American Taliban: "American Theocracy" "Wacist" (thrown at literally everything) "colonialists"
"Inquisition" "Crusades", and of course for cops........ "assassination" "execution" "gang" "terrorists". Just childish nonsense.

So no, the two sides don't appear equivalent or similar, whatsoever.

originally posted by: stevieray

originally posted by: CB328
ATS is NOT liberal. It seems to be about 40% conservative "libertarian", 30% liberal and 30% everyone else. I put libertarian in quotes because almost no one who calls themselves libertarians these days actually is one- they're just less traditional conservatives.

I think your perception may be a little skewed by the fact that today's "serious liberals" are ready to adopt communism, atheism, anarchy, and post-genderism in the US....FDR and Truman would be moderates (and I even hear them label Obama as such pretty often), and JFK / MLK / LBJ would be hated conservatives. Today's liberals don't even have a word for people who want to follow or praise the constitution and American interests, only abject hate.

oh geez....get a grip....."serious liberals" are ready to adopt all those crap-isms?....in what fantasy world do you live in?...I've been a liberal for decades, and never have I heard that trash come out of a liberals mouth......sounds like troll talk to me.

originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I counted 5 anti-Conservative threads, and 2 anti-liberal threads on the front page. Just letting you know. And scrolling through on an average day will get you several anti-Trump threads. Not sure where you're seeing what you're seeing.

I have to agree. Most of the threads I see are critical of conservative thought, whereas, I see a lot of conservative posters.

Why the discrepancy? Or seems that way, I mean.

Regarding gay discrimination, I'm still skeptical of gay marriage. Bring the flames. Put "discriminator" on my profile. Call me names, if you must. Just know I have a close gay friend and never harassed a gay. I guess that don't matter. Get the noose and hang me anyway. Make a show of me so others with skeptical thoughts will be dissuaded.

That's how most of this works. People don't believe these thigns because it's right or correct. They do it because they don't wnat to be unpopular or thought of negatively. It's just simply the easiest societal path. Most of us are social beings and we respond strongly to social pressure. There're numerous studies backing this up. People can be made to do both good and bad with social pressure. The same thing makes people support corrupt government. (And yet I won't stop gays from marrying. They're marrying in my own state. I don't harass either, unless you consider this post harassment.)

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disorder. If you can't figure out if you're male or female, or whether you should act like one or the other, or dress like one or the other, or whether you should maim your body to resemble one or the other, or whether you should change back and forth often......that is mental or psychological disease.

I don't dislike anyone with the this disorder any more than I dislike somebody for being bi-polar, or psychotic, or depressed. But I don't think that we should be celebrating and encouraging any illness, by giving out incentives to act out the illness. Like special versions of marriage, or special immunities from this or that, or special victimhood status.

I treat people of all stripes, and illnesses, and whatever, fairly and decently.

But yet I must be labeled hateful, divisive, dangerous, every type of of -phobe and -ist......by the left.

Because I won't agree with them. Because I have an opinion.

But their opinions are gospel and universal truth. And if you won't agree and praise and celebrate theirs.....you are evil.

That's the second wave of illness. Adults aren't supposed to think or exist in this bizarre, child-like state of demands and anger and hate. You're supposed to learn that this isn't the path through life well before 10 years old.