Define "Conservatism". What It Means. What Qualifies One. Opinions Wanted.

I am currently having a debate with a family member over what a "Conservative" is. There are so many labels we use to identify ourselves. I use many myself. Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, Constitutionalist, etc.

I can see parts of myself in each. I mainly ID as a Libertarian Constitutionalist...which leans more "Right" than Left. If I wanted to go deeper I would describe myself as a "Consequentialist Constitutional Agnostic Classical Liberal Jeffersonian Nationalist Blah Blah Blah Blah" if I wanted to bore people to death.

But on this current campaign trail I hear a lot of debate about what constitutes a "Conservative". People are trying to outdo each other with that ID. I personally don't know what it is anymore. So I'm wondering if there is a defined line, a benchmark.

It seems to me that "Conservatism" now relies heavily on Abortion and Christianity...to a large group of people. I am at odds with both so I cannot ID myself as a Conservative in many respects until I find out what this "Conservatism" is.

So looking for opinions from others. This should be interesting.

My opinion a true conservative is effectively a libertarian.

originally posted by: Punisher75
My opinion a true conservative is effectively a libertarian.

Interesting. What about the Socially "Liberal" part of Libertarian stances.

Like say Decriminalization of drug use? Would a contemporary "Conservative" not chastise one for that? I.E. "You pothead blah blah"?

Honest question.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

A philosophy where maintaining traditional values, traditions and customs are encouraged.

Right leaning Libertarian is one example.

Genuine Conservative perhaps more Individualist.

No big government at all is best.

The Leftwing media and academia propaganda of 100 years have twisted the meaning into pretzels.

"Authoritarianism" is the culprit.

I call myself a libertarian when it comes to the matter of laws, but I lean socially conservative when it comes to arguing those issues. I don't want the force of law to push my position, but I will take the socially conservative position in a debate. I think those things should be taken by choice.

In other words, I won't seek to stop you, but I can and will disapprove.

Is a Conservative one who is :

1) Christian
2) Pro Life

Are the two written in stone? Can one be Pro Choice and still be Conservative? What about Agnostic or Atheist?

Is there a Purist defined line? Who thinks yes?

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

A philosophy where maintaining traditional values, traditions and customs are encouraged.

Devils Advocate here.

Can you define what "Tradition" is?

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
Is a Conservative one who is :

1) Christian
2) Pro Life

Are the two written in stone? Can one be Pro Choice and still be Conservative? What about Agnostic or Atheist?

Is there a Purist defined line? Who thinks yes?

Neither.

The "Christian" and "Pro Life" memes are products of the propaganda.

Those beliefs exists in all political and social spheres.

The MSM will have us believe otherwise however.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I think it's far more possible to an atheist or agnostic conservative than a pro-choice one.

At least, I've seen far of the first breed than the latter ... I don't think I can recall any of the latter. At most, I've seen those who think abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, life of the mother ... maybe occasionally some severe birth defects. But almost never seen one who says abortion for convenience is OK.

I have seen plenty of atheist or agnostic conservatives though and gay ones.

Conservatism is more of a philosophy than a religion or religious position.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Definitions are changing all the time to suit different ideological needs.

socialism is supposed to be awesome now. Authoritarian ideologies just mean more freedom, blah blah blah.

So what does conservatism mean?

I'd probably use any definition coined before 1980 personally.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

A philosophy where maintaining traditional values, traditions and customs are encouraged.

Devils Advocate here.

Can you define what "Tradition" is?

A belief or behaviour passed down from previous generations that has special or significant meaning within a specific demographic of society.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I think it's far more possible to an atheist or agnostic conservative than a pro-choice one.

At least, I've seen far of the first breed than the latter ... I don't think I can recall any of the latter. At most, I've seen those who think abortion should be allowed for rape, incest, life of the mother ... maybe occasionally some severe birth defects. But almost never seen one who says abortion for convenience is OK.

I have seen plenty of atheist or agnostic conservatives though and gay ones.

Conservatism is more of a philosophy than a religion or religious position.

I myself hate the thought of abortion, but I understand it's need for some, as you've said.

But I still haven't understood the line of where that ends or begins. And where one would be considered "Conservative".

Is it all or nothing? A definite opposition to ALL abortion? Under any circumstance?

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Punisher75
My opinion a true conservative is effectively a libertarian.

Interesting. What about the Socially "Liberal" part of Libertarian stances.

Like say Decriminalization of drug use? Would a contemporary "Conservative" not chastise one for that? I.E. "You pothead blah blah"?

Honest question.

Makes no difference really.
The constitution is the constitution, and allows for a great number of liberties.
If you want to know my opinion on what is considered by many to be conservative social ideas, I think the problem with them is this, we have allowed the Government, to involve itself in things it has no business involving itself in.
For Example:
Gay Marriage.
Marriage has NOTHING to do with government.
I personally don't think things like Marriage licenses should exist period.
Why should I pay for the "right" to marry someone? Its Absurd.
If there were no Marriage licenses then there never would have been a debate about Gay marriage to begin with.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

A philosophy where maintaining traditional values, traditions and customs are encouraged.

Devils Advocate here.

Can you define what "Tradition" is?

A belief or behaviour passed down from previous generations that has special or significant meaning within a specific demographic of society.

Vague. Which "Demographic" would that be?

Honest questions for reference, not trying to bait. I'm trying to get people's detailed opinion and for us to ask ourselves about the labels.

I think part of the difficulty of pro-choice and conservative is the right to life issue. It gets to be enough that there are conservatives who swear off the death penalty over it.

You start thinking about the issue critically and you start to realize that it's hard to say exactly when you draw the line on what is or isn't human life, and if you don't know, you should err on the side of caution. That interferes with a woman's right to choose because you start to think she could be ending a human life arbitrarily over her own convenience.

If you get that far, then it's hard to reconcile pro-choice and respect for a human's basic right to life.

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Punisher75
My opinion a true conservative is effectively a libertarian.

Interesting. What about the Socially "Liberal" part of Libertarian stances.

Like say Decriminalization of drug use? Would a contemporary "Conservative" not chastise one for that? I.E. "You pothead blah blah"?

Honest question.

Makes no difference really.
The constitution is the constitution, and allows for a great number of liberties.
If you want to know my opinion on what is considered by many to be conservative social ideas, I think the problem with them is this, we have allowed the Government, to involve itself in things it has no business involving itself in.
For Example:
Gay Marriage.
Marriage has NOTHING to do with government.
I personally don't think things like Marriage licenses should exist period.
Why should I pay for the "right" to marry someone? Its Absurd.
If there were no Marriage licenses then there never would have been a debate about Gay marriage to begin with.

Agreed.

Can we include Constitutionalism as a "Conservative" value?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Definitions are changing all the time to suit different ideological needs.

socialism is supposed to be awesome now. Authoritarian ideologies just mean more freedom, blah blah blah.

So what does conservatism mean?

I'd probably use any definition coined before 1980 personally.

Which is why I started the thread. I want people to define the things they label themselves as, me included.

I think the definition should have a meaning. And I want to know what precludes one from being a "Conservative" or what MAKES one a Conservative.

It's interesting what people's different opinions are.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Respect for what was originally intended. But that goes back to traditional values in a sense doesn't it?

Of course, those things aren't being taught in schools these days.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I call myself a libertarian when it comes to the matter of laws, but I lean socially conservative when it comes to arguing those issues. I don't want the force of law to push my position, but I will take the socially conservative position in a debate. I think those things should be taken by choice.

In other words, I won't seek to stop you, but I can and will disapprove.

Exactly My viewpoint as well.
In my example above I mentioned Gay Marriage. In my belief system it is wrong, however that has nothing to do with what should be the law.