Baddogma's Meta Cafe- Polite Discussions About Scientific Mysticism and General Weirdness

a reply to: Baddogma

I've had version blurr many times.

Why now?

FIIK

Kev

guys and gals i would like to express same simple gratitude for all wonderful posts that were are and will be in this thread, BD you are an amazing host, who attracted together all kind of amazing "weirdos" in here : )

it would be delightful if other threads could have posts with such nice tone also when it comes to such delicate subjects.

well anyhoo, keep it up and have a blast you all!

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Caver78

I agree that humans are in a mutual symbiotic relationship with "the other".

But we are the very junior partners in this.

So many arrogant humans think that they can boss around "sentience" --- but it doesn't work that way.

Anyone (period) who tries that, gets played.

I don't know that we are "junior" anything, altho neither do I think we are superior.
We are each our own.

The view I know is as humans in this physicality we automatically have home court advantage so to speak.
In the world of non-coporeal or semi-corporeal we do not.

They are learning, we are learning.
I ceed only that they know things I have yet to learn. I reject the premise of humans from Neanderthals on down as being unintelligent brutes, or homo sapiens as backwoods hicks. We do make some spectacularly bad decisions.
Everything including us has it's own intelligence an should be credited as such.

Players have learnt inappropriate behaviors. Us and them.
I reject the premise because it's always been done this way, that I need to accept that behavior.

Man, do things get interesting after you hold this line.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

a reply to: corsair00

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Caver78
...
Now it's hard to tell who played who first.

Kev

You missed it! It is not The Police (Look! There's TEOT beating that dead horse!)

It is AC/DC, Who Made Who but with a Berenstain twist, Who Played Who!!
- - - - - -
The dichotomy of this/that, us/them, me/you, etc., is a hard concept to let go of. Almost as hard as the Newtonian point of view. The incursion of the quanta into classical physics has explained many things but also introduced some weird ideas that even scientists themselves have a hard reconciling. That is why they turned to AI is because of their own cause-effect-Newtonian expectations of the world make doing quantum mechanical experiments mind boggling.

Now if those scientists spent some time arguing Berenstein/Berenstain and come to the conclusion, no matter how strange and weird it sounds, that both are correct then maybe the whole framework would not need a make over. But that this/that is too persistent. Hence the rants about ME, and even more threads on ME...

Let's just see where our headspace is... oh, yeah, I am Captain Kirk (mind) of my Spaceship TEOT (body) ready to go where no man (leans in, says, "or woman"), or woman, has gone before. My continuing mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life, and new civilizations. And kick back and enjoy the ride at mindwarping speeds! "Scotty! I need more power!"

A nice mug of tea please, then proceeds to favourite worn chair in the alcove at the back.

Nothing to report here although I am noticing more and more people I interact with are 'waking up' to the fact that all is not as it seems in our 'physical reality'.

Here in the UK the 'in/out' of the European Union referendum has opened a lot of peoples eyes to the tactics and manipulation that politicians and the media use to try and control us and how/what we think.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

The End Of The World As We Know It And I Feel Fine!
Omg am I slow! Just realised that, literally now!
Is it Leonard Bernstein or Bernstain?

a reply to: Baddogma

FYI:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If anyone is interested in this topic.

Kev

a reply to: Peeple

lmao!

It is Berenstein like the Bears!

Berenstein 2016 that is who I am voting for this year!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I'm surprised nobody "remembers" Trump differently. A guy like that might definitely rip the space time continuum (to make a buck if nothing else).

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Trhump?! That is how I remember it in my timeline! Man, Letterman retired too soon! He would not have stood by and let this carry on so long. Meanwhile, I will pay attention to anything but politics. What did I see the other day, "Coal and fracking" as our energy future? The guy has no imagination! Please, (to the rest of the world), "We are sorry for this! Give us a few minutes to clean up our mess. We are better than this. I swear!"

Berenstein 2016

Here's a little something I stumbled upon.. .some Shell engineer thinks he's on to a truer version of reality (back in 2007) and it makes some sense to this layperson... interesting in any case, and at worse, another free energy cracked pot.

Crackpot or genius: Shell boffin

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I like your quote from Timothy Leary. I have a strong fascination with the 1960s. In many ways, I am very jealous I was not alive then. It seems to be a time when there was true freedom, in terms of musical creativity (Woodstock) and psychedelics etc. I should try out some of his books. I know people often accuse his reckless promotion of tuning in and turning off society is what put the nail in the coffin for legal drugs. Which in turn propelled the Drug War and Police State in later decades. Not sure if it was his fault though. Reckless F You behavior sometimes has tragic unintended consequences and side effects....

a reply to: corsair00

Dr. Leary had his doctorate in psychology way before his T&C-25 heyday. The "turn on, tune in, drop out" was a toss out there one-off remark that MSM at the time glommed onto.

I really like the more profound, "Think for yourself, question authority" quote for a couple reasons. One, you have to form an opinion which means you have to become informed which means learning or teaching (besides the rare, "I got it moments"). The other is to question which in turn makes (should) question yourself. I had a brilliant physics teacher who would stand there derive and explain concepts like relativity, quantum mechanics, the standard model, etc., then turn to the class and ask, "How do we know that is right?". So that has stuck with me through the years.

Flashbacks is a good starting point. I ended up reading Leary because of Robert Anton Wilson. They both made me want to read Gravity's Rainbow and Ulysses. RAW got me into quantum mechanics and the idea of quantum weirdness pretty early too. I also like the fact that Dr. Leary was trying to help people with serious mental conditions before the research was outlawed. That is when he took to the country with his grad students and the whole party atmosphere started. It is a shame because there have been stories on Science Daily this year where hallucinogens were used to treat PTSD and depression (along with therapy, they did help). Their use, along with therapy, should not have been outlawed so long ago. All the damaged souls that need genuine help but don't... a crying shame.

a reply to: Baddogma

Why one or the other? I vote for both!

Why do all these ideas involve rotation? Ever notice that? Everything in universe rotates so why not?

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I think he must have been one of the most prolific modern shamans of that generation that initiated a generation-wide rite of passage that seemed to also revolutionize several branches of science - maybe many of which are still considered obscure or on the fringes today.

Thankfully all of that good stuff is still fairly widely available - but unfortunately not often in a clinical setting, like Harvard University!

a reply to: corsair00

Yeah, Leary over estimated science and the establishment and was definitely decades ahead of his time... despite his flaws.

The theraputic uses of those chemicals are myriad and that the govt suppressed them from blind ignorance (or sinister intent, who knows) is unforgivable.

I got to meet the man one afternoon in Beverly Hills and was impressed... his mind stayed excellent into his dotage... and besides being open, enthusiastic and charming, still partied like a madman and didn't let his cultural pillorying depress him (in public, anyway). His Golden Lab was great, too, and fetched like a champ.

Psychedelics are finally getting a smidgen of the serious academic/medical/philosophical attention they deserve... I have yet to meet someone who had an experience with his (real) three letter stepchild that didn't profoundly change their life, almost always for the "better" (which is relative term, as sometimes not knowing more about one's self and universe might be "better"). Though that particular stepchild is rare now, and there are many analogs out in the black markets that are not the same thing, though they are represented as such.. . and shame on the folks subbing Shulgin one offs!

a reply to: Baddogma

Kids, your minds are developing until you are almost 21. Remember that! And Leary always said you need some down time to get you chemicals right again. He said "three days" and I personally think anybody should wait three weeks! My first experience was with a psychology student in my last year of college. Opened up a door to wonderment and relaxed this damaged and hurt portion I did not even know was there. It would take another psychologist and group therapy to make me see what/how I was and give me the strength to "let go" of the old TEOT. I do not endorse the "let's party" approach to the stuff. Like any shaman-in-training, real medicine should be approached with caution and respect. (steps of soapbox)

You met the guy! Nice!

Yeah, everything is synthetic now a days. Lucky for me, the local head shop (before it closed) carried strange books that would probably get you put on a list or something if you purchased them from Amazon. Back to nature I say.

Corsair, BD, did you know Leary's last words? He was in bed, surrounded by loved ones, and he started to pass. He then spoke out but not to anybody in the room: No! No! I don't want to leave yet! then there was a pause, like somebody was speaking to him, then he said, Yeah. Sure. OK. Why not?

How is that for an exit?

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

I had forgotten that story about his "last words" but that hanging on his last words sounds sorta 'culty' , heh... but those might be my own when the time comes.

The day I spent with him was related to a friend's friend trying to get Leary to freeze himself when he died, and the conversations were weird and great as a result, but I got the distinct feeling Leary wasn't so worried about death, and he ultimately thought freezing his remains might be somehow worse, as in perhaps he would be cognitively trapped in his corpse, which doesn't sound like much fun to me, either.

Though he really, really liked living! Heck, me too on most days.

And Leary wasn't passing out psychedelics like candy... everyone around him treated them more like respected, though enjoyable, tools, and I imagine he was played out by then, anyway, but he didn't mind a drink or puff. I found it funny that a huge jar full of different colored capsules was displayed on a table as 'art' ... and pointedly ignored it, but wondered if they were full of something... if so, it would be a legal something, as Leary was anything but stupid, or trusting of law enforcement!

a reply to: Baddogma

I like that like Hunter S Thompson his ashes were scattered in the upper atmosphere. That way there is a chance there is a little Leary in all of us!

As one final homage... when I went to the coffee shop this morning can you guess what was playing? Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds!! I chuckled to myself. The previous day it was The Immigrant Song which for the coffee shop is like Death Metal on an AM country station! I did thank them for helping me Get The Led Out (lol).