Oregon's Portland Community College to Mark 'Whiteness History Month'

a reply to: TrueBrit

Yes, but it is equally a mistake to sit back on your laurels and tell yourself that life is nothing but rolling dice, too. There are always things you can do to hedge your bets and improve your odds of getting those opportunities to come your way.

a reply to: ketsuko

Of course there are.

And many people have strived their whole lives, and wound up dead before it happened, of old age mind you. Others still worked harder than most folk can imagine and got nothing. There is no balance. There is little incentive when families contain members who destroyed their health looking for an in, and died with nothing to pass on anyway, having had a hard, harrowing life, and nothing much but sorrow to show for it.

This is not living. That is called existing, and people are worth more than that.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: SaturnFX

This appears to be the actual study -

www.nber.org...

Problem I see is the hypothesis is of a person admitting to prove a outcome already believed by the tester, so the results are suspect.
But I am not even trying to bring into question the results, I suspect plenty of people do opt for familiarity verses strange names. Is it right? no..its probably subconscious.

That is very different though, someone being subconsciously wary of the minorities verses actively removing them from any possibility of getting a job.

Imagine if those mindsets were still around in the west...to deny a person based on skintone.

well sad news..it is
Black Business Bureau
Actually just google "black owned and operated" and you will get countless links to businesses where no white people allowed to work. That reversed 60 years ago is what people marched against.

Racism in any form is bad. Racism in a persons heart is unfortunate though, racism in someones business practices should be illegal.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
This is not living. That is called existing, and people are worth more than that.

I feel you are about to go on a anti-capitalism rant at any second. let me stop you before you do.

Equal opportunity doesnt mean mandatory opportunity, nor equal outcome. I have been fighting my entire life to do well and every step I take often is rewarded with a swift kick about 4 steps back it seems...but still, at my poorest state, I still live like a emperor when compared to most of the worlds population..difference is I was born into privilege..and by privilege, I mean I was born in the western civilization where capitalism has worked wonders.

I dont take personal pride in where or what I was born in, I count my blessings and make the most of it..and those blessings were heavily brought to you by capitalist principles (well, socio-capitalist..there needs to be a good net to fall so you can climb back up in all society)

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Don't worry about it. It's really not, in the grand scheme of things, that big a deal to me. That is, of course, 'til the subject comes up. Meh.

No. I agree with cowboys, and incidentally yours, attitude on the matter. It really does match with mine, contrary to what my temper might type...

Nothing really shaken.

a reply to: SaturnFX

If you can still die because you are poor, where someone who is richer would live, then you have the wool over your eyes if you accept your lot simply because it is better than someone else's on planet Earth.

And for the record, equal opportunities is a lie. There are not equal opportunities. When huge numbers of people never get a shot, and get used as a scapegoat by the rest of society unfairly, there is a significant inequality of opportunity happening, and that is not acceptable in the least. Furthermore, an equal opportunity can only reasonably be described in the following manner:

A) everyone gets a shot.

B) anyone who works hard gets something good out of it, and if you work just as hard as someone else, you get just as much of something good as someone else, no matter what you work hard at, no matter who you work hard for.

C) no one gets made redundant despite breaking their backs and sacrificing their health for their job.

D) no one who gets a shot should be living in their damned car while holding down three jobs

E) it is only an opportunity if it pays enough to LIVE on, not just EXIST on.

These are reasonable and fair ways to describe an equal opportunity. There are NONE of these floating around where they need to be, I will tell you that for free. And as for stopping me going off on an anti-capitalist rant...when there are no poor people living in substandard accommodations that could kill their kids, while trying to work to feed them, while trying to do something, anything to make their futures seem like ones worth having, despite the fact that jobs are flying out of the country faster than they are being replaced, then I will stop ranting.

When people are no longer living in tent cities, despite having been up to date on their house payments before the stock markets collapsed, and when people from every social strata can get healthcare without having to worry about crippling debt, that is the time when I will stop worrying about the ills of capitalism. When it starts to free as many people as it enslaves, I will shut my mouth. Until that time, I am afraid that there will be cause for me to remind people why they are wrong to support a system which RELIES on certain percentages of the population, not being in the work force, in order to be able to afford to run the economy at all.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: SaturnFX

If you can still die because you are poor, where someone who is richer would live,

A) everyone gets a shot.

Everyone does have a shot at their goals, there is no legal reason why you cant decide to become an astronaut, a lawyer, or any other career. now, having the resources is different.
Most dont have that to the extent of the most wealthy, but there are scholarship programs and the like.
Here I agree would be great to have more opportunity for those in lower income to utilize when they cant afford to..but its a risk either way. going to school oweing a huge student loan bill, or having daddy pay it off..either way you get a education that may (or may not) lead to something good

B) anyone who works hard gets something good out of it, and if you work just as hard as someone else, you get just as much of something good as someone else, no matter what you work hard at, no matter who you work hard for.

thats...not the case.
working hard for minimum wage flipping burgers is going to be mostly just paying bills and still wondering how you are gonna eat next month. working at a law firm at a easy pace will make your main concerns what to name the 35 foot boat you just purchased for a occasional cruise around the lake with friends.
Difference of course is your preperation before work..recommend going to school for STEM fields, or trade school for high skilled labor..else, I guess get used to smelling like a french fry and having less...thats decisions (often based on crappy life realities, but still)

C) no one gets made redundant despite breaking their backs and sacrificing their health for their job.

Retraining programs are important, yes. it is helpful to get people back into the workforce. Redundancy happens though..we have unemployment for these situations. This is a good social program and more needs to be done for people who want to work verses just sit back and get paid for naps.

D) no one who gets a shot should be living in their damned car while holding down three jobs

Its my understanding service = free education after...not to mention it is a preferential treatment when noting someone had military experience anyhow

E) it is only an opportunity if it pays enough to LIVE on, not just EXIST on.

Define live? You can live with a tent and some old cans of beans. the quality of living needs to be enough to take care of necessities, maybe even a few minor luxuries, but not to a point of having no reason to seek out something. gotta find the right mix.
I personally think some basic internet with a netbook should be a near right for all though, too much of getting ahead now requires some basic understanding of computers, a email address, etc. I would be in favor there of anyone under a certain income level allowed some free wifi and something to use it with.

We can continue to fix society to help poor more. I am always in favor of that, thats where the true problem in the west lies, not in color or gender, but in economic differences

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: SaturnFX

If you can still die because you are poor, where someone who is richer would live,

A) everyone gets a shot.

Everyone does have a shot at their goals, there is no legal reason why you cant decide to become an astronaut, a lawyer, or any other career. now, having the resources is different.

No, or few resources is equal to? You got it, no shot, or even worse, a much lower percentile chance of a shot. The hope of a shot, but the probability of nothing, plus debt, which can literally kill a poor families progress for a generation. That's not equal, is it?

B) anyone who works hard gets something good out of it, and if you work just as hard as someone else, you get just as much of something good as someone else, no matter what you work hard at, no matter who you work hard for.

thats...not the case.
working hard for minimum wage flipping burgers is going to be mostly just paying bills and still wondering how you are gonna eat next month. working at a law firm at a easy pace will make your main concerns what to name the 35 foot boat you just purchased for a occasional cruise around the lake with friends.
Difference of course is your preperation before work..recommend going to school for STEM fields, or trade school for high skilled labor..else, I guess get used to smelling like a french fry and having less...thats decisions (often based on crappy life realities, but still)

That's not the case? Its not in any way fair either. Work hard for your money, and you ought to get paid for your sweat. What work one does is not important. How hard one works to get the job done is important, because it is that which one will feel at the end of their life, crippled and broken by real work, not soft crap dressed up as work. As for crappy realities, would you be talking about the unequal opportunity issue? Because I agree, most people given an equal opportunity would choose something other than flipping burgers. Welding would be more preferable. Still pays like crap these days, but the smell of burning metal is lovely.

Retraining programs are important, yes. it is helpful to get people back into the workforce. Redundancy happens though.

Yes, primarily because someone who had no right to make the choice to do so, decided that he would rather get some sweat shops in Asia to make the steel, the clothes, the toys, the circuit boards, or what have you, rather than employ people for a decent wage. Firing folk and moving abroad so that a business can pay less wages, ought to be a capital offence! It causes entire towns to die, and this might not be popular, but business should exist to provide jobs FIRST, profits to the shareholders SECOND! If you own shares, then your made already compared with people who NEED work to survive, and since your need is less, you get to the back of the damned queue. It is called fairness.

.we have unemployment for these situations. This is a good social program and more needs to be done for people who want to work verses just sit back and get paid for naps.

D) no one who gets a shot should be living in their damned car while holding down three jobs

Its my understanding service = free education after...not to mention it is a preferential treatment when noting someone had military experience anyhow

What use is that to a person who has not done military service, worked their whole adult life thus far, and found themselves in this position through no fault of their own, other than of course being born to the wrong parents, or better yet, being born in the wrong town, or the wrong year, or being from the wrong cultural background. What if they found themselves there because they honestly believed if they worked hard enough, there would be a life to make out of it LIKE THEY WERE DAMNED WELL TOLD BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

E) it is only an opportunity if it pays enough to LIVE on, not just EXIST on.

Define live? You can live with a tent and some old cans of beans. the quality of living needs to be enough to take care of necessities, maybe even a few minor luxuries, but not to a point of having no reason to seek out something. gotta find the right mix.
I personally think some basic internet with a netbook should be a near right for all though, too much of getting ahead now requires some basic understanding of computers, a email address, etc. I would be in favor there of anyone under a certain income level allowed some free wifi and something to use it with.

We can continue to fix society to help poor more. I am always in favor of that, thats where the true problem in the west lies, not in color or gender, but in economic differences

I define life, as that which a human being does, which comprises of more than just barely surviving, but having the ability to flourish, to maintain a healthy enough body that going to work is not impaired by the sate of ones accommodation, ability to heat ones home, ones nourishment level, or any other lifestyle related issue. I define life as being more than mere existence, which even crackheads can do pretty well. They are not living at the time, but they are existing. People not addicted to outrageously powerful and dangerous narcotics of that sort however, are often forced to merely exist because they have not enough to live on, to maintain decent standards of health and nutrition on.

Like it or not, the system as it is will not provide properly for those things. It never will, because the system is designed by people who falsely believe themselves to be different than those they left behind. They aren't. Their luck is, but luck is nothing to be proud of.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
What work one does is not important. How hard one works to get the job done is important,

No, this is the argument for communism. pay based on hours worked regardless of job
Someone may spend their fortune (or their parents) and skip having a social life for 4-8 years to study and become a doctor or the like. that person should get paid far more for their highly skilled job that arguably may also allow for extended vacations, cushy office napping for half the workweek, etc..because when they are working, they are doing highly skilled positions they sacrificed for.
meanwhile someone who dropped out of school to go party with friends, never spent much time learning anything, and one day gets a job watching fries at a french fry machine for 8 hours a day is gonna have to understand that is from poor decisions.

You dont cater to peoples bad decisions, you consider valid programs for people who work hard and are seeking help to achieve the next step
fry guy can take a night course online if he wants to improve his life (hense me in favor of wifi and a netbook for all who need it) but its his decision to go home and either fire up the lappy and study, or go home, smoke a bowl, and watch cat videos.

Firing folk and moving abroad so that a business can pay less wages, ought to be a capital offence! It causes entire towns to die,

Unless you have some sort of ham based computer you are using, you contributed to that business model
Yes, outsourcing sucks and our trade laws need to be addressed here, however, this might be doing us a favor.
in China, they recieved soo many of our manufacturing jobs that we in the west were forced to reeducate early on to become more in support roles and other type work..it sucks, but it is what it is.
Now in China, they are having an issue..the near slave labor is being replaced with robots.
soon all low level jobs will be automated and suddenly the poor and uneducated will have absolutely nothing they qualify for globally.
But we will adapt and change..we always do. See the history of the tractor for examples here.

What use is that to a person who has not done military service, worked their whole adult life thus far, and found themselves in this position through no fault of their own, other than of course being born to the wrong parents, or better yet, being born in the wrong town, or the wrong year, or being from the wrong cultural background. What if they found themselves there because they honestly believed if they worked hard enough, there would be a life to make out of it LIKE THEY WERE DAMNED WELL TOLD BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS?

no fault of their own?
...well then blame the parents I guess, but there is no legal bars holding anyone down. personal circumstances happen, and this is again why there are social programs to help those in need. I do think stronger uplifting programs are needed, better educational programs, etc.
nobody anywhere has the right to have a good life, only to try and make the best of it what they can without any state instituted blocks to hold them back should they get motivated and lucky enough
as far as being in the wrong town, year, or culture..thats normally not a big deal (unless you are 75 years old applying for a swimsuit model position..then yeah, could lead to a issue).
No laws against giving it your best, nothing holds you back except for personal issues.

I define life, as that which a human being does, which comprises of more than just barely surviving, but having the ability to flourish, to maintain a healthy enough body that going to work is not impaired by the sate of ones accommodation, ability to heat ones home, ones nourishment level, or any other lifestyle related issue.

mostly I agree except change the word home to shelter. I think an apartment for the unemployeed and homeless is perfectly fine. hate to say it, but prison style cells for anyone could be fine.
Susan has 8 kids. she has no skills, no desire to interact much except to collect government checks. she does not push them to work hard at school, frankly she is almost a absent parent.
those 8 kids grow up and are kicked out at 18 or less. they deserve what exactly?
yes, their upbringing sucked, but what have they earned?
What they should get is a chance, not a entire lifestyle handed to them
give them a base of operations, some food, a bed, and a netbook..let them either work their way up through help, or sit and rot while lamenting on their life.

Your solution seems to be "blame the system for your failure..its rigged against you, abandon all hope".
My solution is better "there is a rope over in the corner, climb up it and get out..if you fall, climb again, and keep climbing until you get out"

Your mindset will keep a person locked in a victim mindset.

a discussion about realistic helpful programs and size net is perfectly fine..but cursing the system and the western way of doing things is simply inaccurate. its not perfect, just the best system on the planet.

but I would like a bit more northern European style social programs instituted for sure.

What's the big deal, isn't white history American History that's taught in schools? If you want a White History month go ahead, more power to you. Like when that white guy that wanted to create a all white basketball league.

Are they going include historic events such as the the slaughter of various native tribes so their sons and daughters can reap the benefits of conquest, the reneging on various treaties with the same tribes of people, the Great Race Riots, Jim Crow laws, the rise of the KKK, segregation, gerrymandering against minorities, and etc.? Or will this be just a circle jerk, inquiring minds want to know.

Or will they reminisce oh how good things were back in the day? Perhaps talk about issues that are critical to white folks, like how minorities move into their neighborhoods and drive the prices down of real estate? The evil of the black lives matter movement perhaps?

This looks like a move by a disgruntled group that is upset because there is a "Black History" month and since black folks have the shortest month of year dedicated to accomplishments they made to the contribution of America, they want their own. But... that's just my two cents.

This topic reminds me of a commercial i see commonly today, let's take a look



My question is, do they have to say white farmers only or do you get that impression from that clip? Plenty of black country guys that would like to date other black country girls and don't want any city folks, but there is only white folks in that commercial so we know the target audience for that commercial. Without them coming out and saying it . Kind of like American History. If black folks were to be included in that dating website, then they would have a commercial for that target audience, it would just be black folks, with the same terrible talking animals, heh. Which hearkens back to my point...

What's the big deal, isn't white history, American History that's taught in schools?

Meh. I'm probably just rambling.

It absolutely fine to be proud of your race and culture...unless your white, then you're racist. I did this same idea of a thread a year ago, mixed bag of results. Holding Muslims and their culture above that of the natives in Western Europe will be the death of them. Merkel is shaming all white, Western Europeans in the same scenario. You cannot be proud of your race/culture unles you are anything besides white.
Just for the simple reason of why this thread would bring anyone in to read it is proof of the issue existing. I bet a black pride rally thread would have brought about 5 people...

a reply to: SaturnFX

And if you have children, you hope they will be able to move up higher then you got. Opportunity and working your way up isn't always something that happens within your lifetime, it may be a generational thing.

My parents worked their fingers off to boost my sister and I. We work to boost our children. Someday, perhaps, our descendants will be well off.

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: SaturnFX

The authors took the content of 500 real resumes off online job boards and then evaluated them, as objectively as possible, for quality, using such factors as education and experience. Then they replaced the names with made-up names picked to "sound white" or "sound black" and responded to 1,300 job ads in The Boston Globe and Chicago Tribune last year.

White names got about one callback per 10 resumes; black names got one per 15. Carries and Kristens had call-back rates of more than 13 percent, but Aisha, Keisha and Tamika got 2.2 percent, 3.8 percent and 5.4 percent, respectively. And having a higher quality resume, featuring more skills and experience, made a white-sounding name 30 percent more likely to elicit a callback, but only 9 percent more likely for black-sounding names.

Even employers who specified "equal opportunity employer" showed bias, leading Mullainathan to suggest companies serious about diversity must take steps to confront even unconscious biases - for instance, by not looking at names when first evaluating a resume.

www.cbsnews.com...

Without digging too much into this, I will take it at 100% face value.
What then is being looked at here. did they try it with asian sounding names, or slavic, etc.

I think there absolutely is a "cultural" prejudice people have. when someone discusses black youth culture, I immediately go to hip hop, thug life, etc..because that is the culture most pushed by movie and music industry, and in turn is seen in the streets.
You watch a jerry springer show and every tyrone is a gold chain wearing black thug, and every daryl is a inbred overalls wearing drunk white hillbilly. Black women have "black" names and are screaming harpys, white women with names like Amber-Lynn is some nosering proud "slut" styled foul mouthed etc.
This is programming that creates a image in the mind as to what you are getting involved with.

I would be interested in a similar test, but instead of "black names", do other cultural names. Change John Smith to Cletus Magee Change Robert to Jeb or Merle, etc...drum up backwoods hillbilly stereotypes and see if the subconscious drops those files also.

Then see the results of asian names. change Susan to Ping. Smith to Won, etc..I would be curious what those statistics show (I suspect asian sounding names would be favored in technical positions...stereotyping)

This isn't really about racism though (although it is to an extent) verses about stereotyping and a culture that loves stereotyping of all. we love our neat boxes.

I suspect it might be good for HR to block out names and just assign numbers when reviewing resumes for no front loading.


Add:
I am currently digging into the article presented now and am trying to seek out their sources. it only says "researchers", but seemingly no linking. I get wary on anyone doing this as they typically are trying to hide some glaring issues, or was done in a screwed manner..or flat out made up stuff that sounded good (see UN report on cyberviolence recently).
I wont dismiss the idea of cultural stereotyping harming people though, that (in my opinion) is solid..but that comes back to a discussion about culture of communities itself.
..also, this article is 13 years old...probably still somewhat relevant, but in 2003, people were out of their mind nervous about anything "weird" from terrorism scares..so time has to be taken into consideration

Names are powerful thing, actually. Part of Naturalizing in Japan necessitated me changing my name. Obviously I won't tell you my old, or new name on this forum. But I can tell you I put a lot of consideration into my name, and how it's written. I struggled with choosing a more traditional japanese name to integrate more, or to simply change my given name into something pronounceable and writable in Japanese (Think changing your last name "Smith" to "Sumisu" or スミス)

I finally settled on a more traditional Japanese name. I am a Japanese citizen now, and if I want to integrate into society, I needed a name befitting of that. You'd be surprised how many natural born Japanese breathe a sigh of relief in hearing my Japanese name, thinking me natural born to foreign parents.

a reply to: cenpuppie

That's the thing. The notion of a racial history is absurd, and it has left a great scar in it. In truth, blacks are more American than most whites, given that they have occupied the territory, in truly horrendous social and institutional conditions, longer than most white immigrants. They have had just as much, if not more, with what it means to be American, and America has never been a white country.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I finally settled on a more traditional Japanese name. I am a Japanese citizen now, and if I want to integrate into society, I needed a name befitting of that. You'd be surprised how many natural born Japanese breathe a sigh of relief in hearing my Japanese name, thinking me natural born to foreign parents.

natural reaction. foreigners trigger the subconscious threat. Invaders. heh
Japan I imagine is much worse..they were all but walled off for most of their history

originally posted by: Discotech

originally posted by: ReadLeader
I for one am proud to be white (American Indian, but white) and I know many others are as well.

Forgive my bluntness but why are you proud to be white ? What exactly is there to be proud about being a certain tone of skin colour ?

I guess it's a problem to be proud of one's heritage? Most people have mixed genealogies, but most people also come from a long line of the same color. Would anyone have problem with Asian people being proud of their color, language, ancestry, and ethnicity(ies)? Didn't think so.

a reply to: TheTory

I agree with that. Good show

This is pretty funny coming from a bunch of students in 98% white Oregon. I imagine its easy to say you're not a racist if you've never even seen a black person in real life.

originally posted by: ReadLeader
OH BOY!!!!!! (rubs hands) this is going to be BIG NEWS or not, depending on the spin. I for one am proud to be white (American Indian, but white) and I know many others are as well. I am anxious to see what comes of this; more to follow or will they get shut down and called racists? I am also wondering if there is any corrolation to the occupiers??

For any other races, is this offensive to you, if so, why? Thanks in advance for your participation in this controversial subject matter..

"Whiteness refers to the construction of the white race, white culture, and the system of privileges and advantages afforded to white people," a definition on the school's event page reads.

The month of April will be dedicated to the project, which "seeks to inspire innovative and practical solutions to community issues and social problems that stem from racism," the school said.

Among the questions that will be asked:

What is whiteness and how is it socially constructed?
In what ways does whiteness emerge from a legacy of imperialism, conquest, colonialism and the American enterprise?
Who benefits from the consequences of whiteness? Who loses from whiteness? How?
What are alternatives to the culture of white supremacy?
What are approaches and strategies to dismantling whiteness?

L I N K

I'm getting really sick of where all of this is going.

A GREAT case in point is my current job for the government.

So, I'm 34, have two masters related to poverty and community work, and a fair number of years of work experience related to it. I got put as the lead on a new project out in the field two weeks ago, and right away a bunch of 25 year old social justice warriors at my office began being dicks to me and whispering that I'm only getting recognition due to white privilege and nothing else. Meanwhile, most of those same people have less experience and training, objectively.

It's getting to the point where a white dude like me, even one who has worked for 10 years in social justice, economic justice, and community work, even ON anti-racism initiatives, can be besmirched and dismissed for being white. It's getting to the point where some SJWs think they can be assholes to a random white person, regardless of their beliefs, background, work, and actions.

And, now we have people that feel that even if they have less experience and training, that they should get a job over a white dude who objectively has more relevant experience. "It must just be that he is white."

a reply to: ketsuko

I thought that most whites are already proud of their whiteness. . The special minority studies that were added as part of the college curriculum began in the sixties because there was a lack of representation of minorities in the history books. There was hardly anything written on the achievements of the minority races of the USA, and most minorities were ashamed at the time because there was so much discrimination in that era. These classes were designed to increase their self-esteem.

If the Whites need to gain some self-esteen, then this way to go about it.