Hudson Valley, Indian Point, Boomerang UFOs & the Stormville Flyers

a reply to: mirageman

WOW.... another mind blowing thread by yourself mirageman, that shall keep me busy on a boring Friday evening! Coming back to read later!

Thank You!!!

originally posted by: JimOberg


a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I concede the point, well argued. Just be cautious to apply ANY
words that carry with them side-implications that then can attach
barnacle-like to the original nebulous referent.

That's what worried me about using 'object'.

Would 'stimulus' serve better? Or simply 'cause'?

I see Zeta has argued the case about using the term 'object' but I understand your concerns. I would probably go with Kev's suggestion of using UAP (one used by the UK Ministry of Defence as well).

The Indian Point story is actually quite difficult to verify whether anything happened at all. From what I can gather there was a late night talk show called "The Edge of Reality" on WNBC in New York on 2nd Sept 1984. After the show Phil Imbrogno claims he was called by various people and later interviewed them. But theses witnesses, who were power station security personnel, have remained anonymous to this day as far as I know. All roads appear to lead back to Imbrogno as a source of this incident.

Oh and amusing story about the Russian guy and your many hats

originally posted by: Sparkymedic
a reply to: mirageman

@ 3:50 in this vid it is CLEARLY a jet they are filming. NOT a UFO. Those are clearly aircraft navigation lights. PLUS you can clearly hear them remark about the obvious sound of a jet engine coming from it.

There is no frame of reference. How can anyone tell what he's really filming? It looks more like a plane to me. Light configurations are very typical of aircraft and what they would look like at night. Which is also why you can't see any of the wings or body of the aircraft.

Occam's razor people!

I am totally with you on that particular segment. It pretty much looks like a plane and sounds like a plane.
However with thousands of witness sightings, across two different years, we are probably dealing with a number of different things and so one explanation probably doesn't fit all in this case.

a reply to: mirageman

I know that this is insanely off topic.. but I can't resist.. this is
for both Jim and you..("hats") it's utterly hilarious.

Cultural Blunders

Kev

originally posted by: Baddogma
As a bit of hearsay offered... I have a close friend who told me that her uncle and a group of pilots would fly their private airplanes in a V formation up and down the Hudson valley at this time... and they got a chuckle from the exaggerated claims of alien craft.

Now, this does not explain all the sightings and if I remember correctly, the stunts were in response to some popularized initial sightings of a giant V formation of lights, so there was a "there" there before they muddied the waters.

But some of them were (alleged) Cessna sourced sightings.

eta: and oh, yes... wonderful presentation.

It's very much a part of the case.

There was an article about these guys in Discover Magazine of Nov 1984. If anyone wants to view it you can try this link :

www.tinyurl.com...

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

I know that this is insanely off topic.. but I can't resist.. this is
for both Jim and you..("hats") it's utterly hilarious.

Cultural Blunders

Kev

Just like saying you need to pick up some fags Kev!

No one would bat an eyelid at you over here. But I bet a few would over your side of the pond!

Anyhow.....back to the more serious stuff.

a reply to: mirageman

Extremely frustrating having anonymous witnesses, but there is some corroboration mentioned in the article that could be verified if one were to take the time. From the ufoevidence.com article by Imbrogno.

Sgt Hoffman

Many other people in the area also reported seeing the UFO over the plant. Police in Pekskill New York which is the town just south of Indian point said they received quite a few calls that evening. Sgt Hoffman of the Peekskill Police Department went out to invesigate and saw a giant UFO with over a dozen white lights in a V formation slowly move toward the Indian Point power plant. Sgt Hoffman a trained observer admits that he never saw anything like it before in his life.

Gerry Culliton

Gerry Culliton from WVIP radio was also doing his own investigation into the sightings over Indian Point. Gerry is an excellent newsperson and will dig and dig until he gets the facts on a story. Gerry gave me a call to tell me what he found out.Although the conversation was about thiry minutes long, I edited out much of the material and included the important facts.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

I liked the JPaero thing too. I'm trying to dig out an old book by Tim Matthews which has a chapter on LTA aircraft which were tested at various times and places in the 80s. The size of some of them would really spook an unsuspecting witness. The book doesn't go into detail about times and places which is a shame. But the fact they were all tests might explain the "waves" of sightings then their subsequent disappearance. Their capabilities and speed would probably also surprise people not used to seeing unusual aircraft. I'm certainly not saying this explains away all the sightings of these big V things. But I'm guessing it may help explain a few. Cheers.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Yes I didn't see anything mentioning Hoffman and Culliton that wasn't linked back to Phil Imbrogno. But it may be worth further digging.

a reply to: mirageman

I was thinking along the lines of the shag harbor incident where anonymous divers are claimed to have seen one craft aiding another under water. As far as I know, there really is no way to corroborate this story. Chris Styles seems like an honest fellow, and we really have to trust him as far as the story goes.

I dont think it is the same situation here, an investigator could track down some people and verify this. Was it the flyers? Not sure if this was a Thursday, but I cant imagine they had the stones to fly over restricted airspace at a nuclear plant.

Is there a reason no one in this thread is talking about the stealth bomber and the stealth fighter? These projects were top secret in the 80s, and not revealed to the public until the early 90s. They're unsettling to see in flight even if you know what they are. It is not too difficult to imagine a scenario where the military is out testing their flight capabilities (especially since they were in active duty in the Persian Gulf War), is responsible for a spate of sightings, and then puts out some odd coverup sightings to muddy the waters until they were prepared to reveal the planes to the public.

I mean, this chart from page one literally is full of drawings of the stealth bomber.

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

If military, it almost has to be a blimp type device at the speeds/lack of noise described.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: mirageman

I was thinking along the lines of the shag harbor incident where anonymous divers are claimed to have seen one craft aiding another under water. As far as I know, there really is no way to corroborate this story. Chris Styles seems like an honest fellow, and we really have to trust him as far as the story goes.

I dont think it is the same situation here, an investigator could track down some people and verify this. Was it the flyers? Not sure if this was a Thursday, but I cant imagine they had the stones to fly over restricted airspace at a nuclear plant.

Well who would have the testicles to overfly a nuclear plant in restricted airspace and stick around for 15 minutes?
There are a number of articles about alerts at Indian Point on the web but nothing (I could find) about an overflight of something unidentified. That is unless it is linked back to Phil Imbrogno. Although I am not throwing all his work in the dustbin because he chose to misrepresent some of academic and military qualifications.

He did work with Bob Pratt and J.Allen Hynek on the book Night Seige and, whilst some of the high strangeness tales were left out at Hynek's inisistence, the Indian Point incident did make it into the book :

Night Siege : Indian Point Report

According to that 4 Cessna pilots were arrested according to Carl Patrick the plant's information office. But the police had no record of it. I would say that in this case Imbrogno was reporting what he was told about the incident. But how much of it was actually true?

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Heres something "...the resulting concept was known as the 'Dynairship'. This was a huge craft of 600 feet (183m ) in length with the ability to remain in the air for days at a time. Although it was most likely to fly slowly, the ship would have been able to reach over 200 mph ( 322 kmph) if necessary".

This was something I found. The company was Aereon and this was proposed for " oceanic research" for the military.

In the 1970s they claimed a prototype could be built for "a few tens of millions" (yes, I raised an eyebrow too).

I am convinced that projects like this have continued in the "black world" and I wouldn't be surprised if they had a whole range of different types of these hybrid LTA things. Just read that quote again...600ft, in the air for days, possible 200 mph!!! If that's the seventies, is it possible this (or something along these lines) is the explanation for the giant triangles?

Quote from UFO Revelation by Tim Matthews.

a reply to: mirageman

It is too bad a case like this didnt get more investigation from other sources, just imagine where it would be if Hynek and crew didnt get involved, how much less we would know.

I see the same thing with many of the Hangar 1 episodes, several them were never covered anywhere else and had good potential, but no follow up.

a reply to: Tulpa

I think the weakest part of the case is the technology. There are few reports saying the object took off at high speeds, but most describe it as hovering or moving pretty slow( I havent read all the reports, be interesting to know how many describe it moving at high speeds). Again, if it was military, awful strange way of keeping something secret.

I was in the (sic) air force for five years, and that was no plane, baby. I watched that thing for 10 minutes. I followed that sucker doing 50 miles per hour. It was u shaped, and it just shot off and vanished."'

It was humungous ... and had clumps of bright, bright lights ... It was moving very slowly and at one point it stopped in mid-air' ... Three other aircraft that the woman identified as helicopters were flying around the object. Suddenly, 'this thing took off like you wouldn't believe' toward Middlebury..."

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Its just a theory. As far as I know the Dynairship was only a concept. There are pictures out there of the Dynair 2 and it sure looks a lot like the descriptions given of the triangles. The array of lights would certainly make something that size look pretty freaky but that's my other problem, along with the speed. Why have it lit at all if its a secret?

I'm starting to look into some of the xem series of test craft. One had an unofficial flight record of three months!!!

I'm working on the assumption that any successful parts of the early tests of LTA technology could have been incorporated into current projects. These tests were in the seventies. By the eighties they had vectored thrust for maneuverability and after that I just don't know. The name I have for design is Michael Walden and he worked at Nellis. The first tests were for the Dept of energy who wanted to publish his research. The Dept of defence got interested in the tests which resulted in 'classification at the highest levels. All the xem tests were saucer shaped.

Moving forward, what advances have been made since then? The mind boggles.

I've also found integrity research institute, future energy news 6th Jan 2003. If anyone fancies downloading some really interesting looking papers... "Spies that fly" looks like a good start but I'm on my phone at the mo. Sorry I cant do links etc because I'm old fashioned and I got most of this from books. Hope I've not gone on too much.

Call me uneducated, but has anyone slapped together a good reason the Hudson Valley was such a "hot spot" to begin with?

a reply to: AshOnMyTomatoes

Here is one video by Unsolved Mysteries that gives a decent description and recreation of a particular sighting.




Heres another which gives a decent overview of the entire flap.

a reply to: Caver78

...but has anyone slapped together a good reason the Hudson Valley was such a "hot spot" to begin with?

Massive deposits of magnetite?