Dear Christians, If You Vote For A Godless Man, You Are Asking For Tyranny.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Great thread Charlie. This highlights some issues which I think are paramount when discussing and understanding the problems with politics in America.

In my view, it is not Trump's godlessness which should concern the people of the United States of America. His religious beliefs should not be an issue, because as we all know, it is perfectly possible to be an honest, pleasant, compassionate, firm, sensible, humble and intelligent person, without subscribing to a faith of any kind. These are the traits a person would need, for a start, in order to do a good job as a leader of any group of people, leave alone a nation.

These are also traits which are absent from Donald Trump's character.

Whether one is atheist, Christian, a Pastafarian or affiliated with any other religious organisation or ideal, one should be able to see the glaring inadequacies of Trump, his temper, his lack of basic intelligence or morality, the fibre of the man for being the rotten and horrid thing that it is.

I do, however, understand the reason that the article linked to in the OP, is important. The Christian fundamentalist right in the US are a strong voter bloc, and vocal with it. They make more noise than they have throats with which to make it, and that noise ripples away from them, and into the ears of the weak and foolish, sounding like sense. Dangerous business. The article author is right to appeal for sanity from those who profess to faith, but truly, can anyone who would vote for Trump, actually profess to love Jesus, and wish to follow in his footsteps? Can anyone considering voting for Trump consider themselves persons who value love and tolerance above hatred and oppression? Can anyone who is considering voting for Trump, genuinely look at themselves and say "Christ would applaud me for my choice."?

As a Christian myself, I would find it hard to reconcile the idea of anyone professing to belief in Jesus, voting for a man like that, except that it has happened throughout human history, that people have come to power through paying lip service to large swathes of a population, their beliefs, their attitudes, and then proven while in office to have been liars all along.

But the real point is, that it does not matter whether he has a faith or not, or even if he claims to have none. A persons faith is no measure of their character, no measure of a man in the least. I say this with full understanding that a person can profess a faith and be a total bastard. I say this in the knowledge that so can those who profess to have no faith, and on the flip side of that, there are genuine legends who worship deities, and there are wonderful people out there who believe that this, human life, mortal existence is all there is, that there is no god, or heaven, or spirit or anything the heck else.

A persons religious beliefs do not have any bearing on their fitness to perform a duty in government. To establish whether they have the qualities necessary to achieve positive things for the nation, other metrics must be examined, and as far as I am concerned, Trump fails spectacularly at every important point. Greedy, emotionally retarded, about as diplomatically qualified as a brick bat to the eye socket, and incapable of taking anything except his bottom line remotely seriously, this is a man who has nothing to recommend him to a population.

He is the opposite, not of what politicians are today (which is bloody horrible at best) but what they ought to be. Honourable, honest, decent, kind, compassionate, fair, intellectual, and aware that there is always a greater power than their own. Not necessarily that of a deity, but that of the people they are attempting to serve. Trump accepts no power in his life but his own. He is his own god. He will do whatever he thinks best, without even the slightest consideration for consequence, and without any mercy or compassion what so ever, traits we know he has none of, owing to his history in property purchasing and redevelopment.

The man has no morality, and that is a far greater problem than a lack of faith.

Now, the problem here is this. The propaganda, the advertising, the buzzwords and the hot button topics have all been trotted out, and Trump has made noises which amoral dogs all over the place have rallied behind. The ludicrous and unworkable border wall, the temporary ban on immigration for Muslims, and so on. He knows how to sell it, and sell it to as many people as possible. He knows how to sell bullets to gunshot victims, how to sell a carpet made of uranium to a person with terminal cancer, how to sell anything to anyone. And right now, he is trying to sell the United States of America a faulty president and government, to replace a faulty president and government.

Will he end mass surveillance and have those who have constantly covered it up, and defended it, arrested and thrown down a hole for the rest of time? Of course he won't. He doesn't give a single fig about the constitution, and probably knows less about the document than I, a British citizen with no qualifications in history or government and politics! Will he insist that government intervene in the mental health situation in the States at the moment, to prevent people who have severe mental health problems, and specifically those who pose a potential risk to innocent persons, from being out and about in public, so that they cannot involve themselves in mass murders, rapes, serial killings, serial sexual offences? Will he ensure that those who pose a danger to others are placed in institutions until or unless they improve to the point of GENUINELY posing no threat to other people?

Of course he will not. He does not give a fig about the second amendment either, and will allow mentally ill persons with to roam about, even if they have the kind of condition which means they present a risk to both themselves, and everyone else around them, and will continue the gun debate loudly, while delaying proper solutions and failing to protect the right to bear arms.

But people think that his responses to stimuli will either be better, or at least different. I will say this to any person thinking of Trump for president for any reason...the man will do the same things, or worse things. They are all he is capable of, because that is the sort of man he is. He is a megalomaniac, and he should never, ever be allowed to run a country. It will be the death of hundreds of thousands at the worst, and the economic destruction of the entire country at best, if he is ever allowed to occupy the Oval Office. He will terminate the dreams of an entire generation, perhaps even two, and will destroy the United States of America on the world stage, reducing its position from one of burgeoning chaos, to utter collapse.

He will watch the place burn, and smile as the ashes and embers float away.

I always get a chuckle when I see Trump (or anyone else) speaking at these campaign events and they state, 'I am a good Christian'. This always reminds me of the people who claim they know karate.

A true christian who's running for office doesn't need to proclaim his faith to the world. His words and actions while in the spotlight will let the people know. But then I don't think that true christians will ever get that close to the white house.
nope we have two types of christians running for office.... (clinton)
those that will find religion during the campaign trial but forget it afterwards. and those that are so deeply embedded into a twisted brand of it that they believe that they are destined to be king.... (bush and cruz)

remember the grand bush years? the constitution was just a g..d...d...m piece of paper, Rev Moon was being coronated as the Messiah in our capital building, and we were starting crusades, and of course torture was okay and those disgusting pictures of iraqi prisoners were released? And all the little neocons were running around telling us all just how they were in the majority, that if we didn't like how things were, we could just leave.... and let's not forget about that grand patriot act. I think this was the time that I felt the most tyranny from our gov't, and some of the population..
and now, look around, they are telling you just oh so how badly the christians are being persecuted although you can't drive two miles in either direction in most of the country without passing a church, and even businesses that are christian owned now can use the religion as an excuse to ignore the laws that all of us have to follow.... nope they are persecuted because they now have to fight some for the right to persecute others...

Sorry, but I will take a well meaning athiest over a neocon christian any day of the week.

It's a moot point. We have separation of religion and government, and it will remain that way unless somebody like Ted Cruz is given ample power to screw the country up more than he already has.

Why does belief in a non-existant omnipotent supernatural entity qualify you more for the presidency over someone rational who does not harbor such childish superstitions but is a sane, rational, scientific minded person?

Personally, I do not want ANY brand or branch of any religion anywhere near my government or governmental systems or personnel. AT ALL

Religious people and their accompanying nonsense have been interfering and mucking up our society through the government for decades and has only gotten worse recently. That entire element in our government has to go.

The current federal government is EXACTLY what the founding fathers were trying to prevent.

Keep religion out of Government. We the sane, do not bloody want it there in any form. Understand??

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
~ Romans 13:1

Jesus answered [speaking to Pilate], “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.”
~John 19:11

…the Most High has power over human kingdoms. He gives them to whomever he wishes.
~ Daniel 4:17


www.bloomberg.com...
The prospect of Trump in the White House is ratcheting up anxiety among the 2,500 business and political leaders gathered at the Swiss ski resort for the annual World Economic Forum.

Well if the elitist don't like him, maybe we should wonder why?

Even jesus loved an apostle that would betray him.

But then the Bible says, false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Is Trump a messiah?

I don't think so.

Obama fooled many, many Christians voted Obama.

The ‘Obama is a Muslim’ conspiracy theory is still reverberating in the Middle East
www.washingtonpost.com...

One of the most persistent and widespread of these conspiracy theories gets more specific than its American variant: Obama isn't just a Muslim, this theory goes.... he's a Shiite Muslim.

This week, as the Obama administration announced that it was lifting sanctions on Iran as a result of a U.S.-led nuclear deal with Tehran reached in July, Dhahi Khalfan Tamim, the head of general security for the emirate of Dubai, suggested that Obama's "Shiite roots" had helped him get elected in a bid to bring the United States and Iran closer.

"Mission accomplished," he added.

It's worth noting that Tamim isn't an obscure figure. He is a former police chief of Dubai. His Twitter account has more than 1.2 million followers, and his tweets about Obama were retweeted hundreds of times. And neither is this the first time that this rumor has found voice.

Last year, a video featuring former Iraqi member of parliament Taha al-Lahibi appeared online and showed Lahibi reasoning that Obama's "Shiite background" had led him to work with Iran. Around the same time, Syrian writer Muhydin Lazikani told the London-based al-Hiwar television channel that Obama was the "son of a Shiite Kenyan father."

a reply to: Stormdancer777

and bush was a "christian" and made the US citizens sponsors of torture. and a whole mess of neocon christians defended it....which is really quite shameful considering. the separation of church and state not only protects the people's right to beleive what they wish and practive their beliefs as they see fit.. it also protects those minority faiths and allows them to do the same. and it also protects the integrity of the faiths, lest they defame the faith by launching "crusades" and justifying the use of torture.

Gov't are by their very nature, corrupt den of inequities. It's insane to think that religions can make any meaningful bonds with them without soiling their pretty white halos.

The witch hunts, the crusades, raping kids.
and much more! yes Christians...

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You do realize that God uses the godless to do his bidding as well, right ?
They don't know it, but he maneuvers them.
Want an example, The Medes/Persians under Cyrus the Great to liberate the Jews from Babylon.

While tangential, I think it's more than just nitpicking to point out that Cyrus the Great was, most likely, a monotheist in a monotheist tradition that probably pre-dates Abraham, Zoroastrianism.

a reply to: 11andrew34

Ops not godless, but not a worshiper of the true God, yet he did seem to acknowledge his existence, that type of belief system, believed in more than one god, and that was common back then within religious culture.
The point stands those that aren't worshiping him are used by him for liberation or for judgement, for example when the Jews lost Jerusalem to the armies of Babylon, because they had acted unfaithful to God, they were in servitude for 70 years without a nation.