Understanding Canada's Health Care System, And Why It's Not Free

This is a useless endeavour, Ghost.
The people that want UHC and an NHS want it...

& the people you need to persuade, aka American right wing conservatives clearly do not understand how cheap it is nor how well it actually works.

The only downside to the NHS in the UK is nurses wages to shift ratio.
It's disgusting how hard they work for such little return.

But they still do it because they care, and that's what healthcare is ultimately about.

The people we try to pursuade, aka American right wing conservatives are not the empathetic type.


I say American because even UK conservatives love our NHS, given a choice, across the spectrum, we (as a collective) would spend twice as much in taxes to double our NHS' abilities because it's so damn worth it.

They're all about their bottom dollar, even if it was a dollar they'd never see due to other frivolous taxes they don't care about.
So long as it doesn't appear socialistic in nature, they'll pay it.

Otherwise all they do is complain.

A £26k a year job loses £1500 in tax per year for the NHS...

That's equivalent of a US citizen on $36k, paying just $2100 per year in taxes, with no added cost and no flagrant insurance costs.


Also, welcome lindscity, stick around.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirsabout ten years ago I broke my ankle...
I didn't have insurance. my bills were more than that $2100 for just that one broken ankle. I also had bills from where i was going to the doctors trying to figure out what was wrong with that foot while insured (lost that when I quit my job because of that foot. ) and never did figure out what was wrong with it.

now, with obamacare, that $2100 is less than what some are saying their deductable is...
and well, a big gripe they have about socialized healthcare is that the gov't will start controlling their bad habits, but we've already got that, since so many are on medicaid and mddicare because the healthcare costs are so rediculous. so I don't really see an issue there. we already have the gov't trying to tax this that and the other thing because they are "unhealthy" and they think it's driving up the cost of healthcare. they already having this treatment or that treatment being denied them by the insurance companies. we already seem to have those things that they say a socialist healthcare system will bring on.
but what we have and they don't is a bunch of people paying out the .... for the taxed this or that because well "they are gonna cost them money" when the are practically blocked from decent healthcare because of the cost. what canada or great britain has might not be perfect, but in my opinion, what the US has is danged near criminal!

a reply to: dawnstar

From what I've heard it sounds criminal, dawn...
But that's what happens in a corporatocracy.


I'm not here to blow smoke up people's asses...
But us Brits hold no institution to such a high regard as our NHS...


While other nations wonder if it's race or religion or class warfare that'll provoke a civil war, the very notion that someone would try to take away our Healthcare system would see the pitchforks out with the baying mobs in an instant.


I'm not saying it'll work better if the States did what we did because UK RahRahRah, maybe it wouldn't work, maybe the transition would dip the economy for a while...


But once all those evil insurance corporations collapse and Big Pharma has to play by government rules when it comes to medicinal costs, you're back in business.

Until then, Big Pharma controls the monopoly of life and death all with a price tag...
And again, it truly does sound criminal.

It appears that Canada's healthcare tax is based on income. If two workers work, they pay based on the total income being each individual's income is taxed. If two adults are working and their wages total up to forty two grand a year, is it comparable to one adult working with a forty two grand a year wage?

I have conferred with people from Canada on the healthcare and most people think it is decent but they kind of are frustrated that it does not cover healthcare when in America or other countries when they are on vacation. A policy if purchased for the trip from an insurance carrier to cover the trip and it is not cheap. They said it sometimes takes a couple of weeks or more to get an appointment with a specialist, but it is the same way here.

Remember, their insurance covers medical in car accidents in Canada, so a premium is not paid on that. Products you buy do not have an added expense for healthcare that employers pay and workers comp is probably not needed. So the savings are all over the place. An employer would need a liability policy though, in case they got sued for an injury at work that they were responsible but that might even have a cheaper premium because standard medical is not needed. I can go on and on, even home owner insurance has a medical part. We pay a lot of extras here that need to be considered.

When you have a for profit healthcare, it tends to mean you could take longer to get better, being sent for test after test that are not in the right direction of what is wrong. All the healthcare workers need to be paid and the equipment needs to be paid for. It is very expensive. I have talked to three doctors about this and all three said they would love to work in a system like the UK has. They would get a good salary, benefits, and they would have lots less stress. No insurance premiums to pay or workers reliant on people being sick to keep their jobs. All three said it was better that way.

It is expensive running an office and it requires you charging much more and it means people think you are getting rich off of them. Most doctors just want to provide a job for their employees and others that do testing and specialize in fields. Everyone needs to work and they are sometimes forced to require unneeded tests just to keep everyone working. It is human nature, the nicest of doctors actually make you stay sick longer.

originally posted by: rickymouse
I have conferred with people from Canada on the healthcare and most people think it is decent but they kind of are frustrated that it does not cover healthcare when in America or other countries when they are on vacation. A policy if purchased for the trip from an insurance carrier to cover the trip and it is not cheap. They said it sometimes takes a couple of weeks or more to get an appointment with a specialist, but it is the same way here.

Every time I purchased travel insurance (for health) it was like $25-$100. That seems pretty reasonable for covering something like $1,000,000-$5,000,000

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: rickymouse
I have conferred with people from Canada on the healthcare and most people think it is decent but they kind of are frustrated that it does not cover healthcare when in America or other countries when they are on vacation. A policy if purchased for the trip from an insurance carrier to cover the trip and it is not cheap. They said it sometimes takes a couple of weeks or more to get an appointment with a specialist, but it is the same way here.

Every time I purchased travel insurance (for health) it was like $25-$100. That seems pretty reasonable for covering something like $1,000,000-$5,000,000

That doesn't sound that unreasonable of a charge. I wonder why they were complaining?

originally posted by: rickymouse
That doesn't sound that unreasonable of a charge. I wonder why they were complaining?

Because they're damned dirty cheap Canadians! Need to save their loonies for bacon and maple syrup. (FYI: I actually do have maple flavored bacon in my freezer)

But yes, I agree with everything else you wrote. For profit healthcare systems are just terrible. It so obviously turns to corruption and greed at every step.

does the average person in the US have health insurance that will cover them out of the country though?? I never traveled much so I have no idea?

a reply to: Ghost147
you know how insurance companies are allowed to profit only 10% because of obamacare? Say it only costs $50 a month they can only make $5 a month, but if they do lots of wasteful stuff they can charge $75 and reap a profit of $7.50

They're taught that lowering costs (deflation) wrecks the economy. That inflation (growth) is good. Seems like a scam.

I am from Norway and though we also have universal health-care, it does not cover dentistry or opticians. Sometimes it is quicker to go to a private clinic than waiting on the official health system, however even that is quite cheap compared to many other countries. We also have to pay out of our own pockets for most medication, but last week I was at the pharmacy for new medicine, and next to me was a woman from the USA that had to get some medicine, and she couldnt believe how cheap the medicine was, about 10% of what it costs in the USA, so I guess our medicine is heavily subsidized, even though we have to pay for it.

a reply to: Hellhound604

I'm sure it is cheaper, but in the end you pay for it through your taxes. On average you're paying 15-20% more per tax bracket.

a reply to: Ghost147

Of course its not free. We pay $50 dollars a month. Its virtually free.

a reply to: rickymouse

Here in bc canada we still have workers comp. Is called wcb or worksafe bc. Yes price of most meds are cheap. Yes wait times at hospitals can be long as #. But there is a clinic on every block. Walk in show your bc care card. And bam in 10 mins-30 mins your being helped. If i had to move to another country i would make sure to stay away from the states. There is way to much price gouging there. Id much rather move to a northern european country as their health care is equal too or greater than ours here in canada.

Also you pay your healthcare when you do your taxes so that way you only pay once a year. And you dont even notice it.

If you make less that $25000 a year in bc. You dont pay ANYTHING for healthcare. Which means if you are poor and live in poverty you will/do have free healthcare. So long as you declare that you are in that tax bracket.

The main reason Canada's healthcare costs so much is because of the medical equipment and pharmaceuticals which are over-priced in the name of profits. All of it should be socialized and made directly in Canada by Canadian workers. I'm sure we could drive the costs down by 40% or more and stop being 30th in healthcare quality.

Another dumb part which isn't covered, dental health. Studies shows that dental health is much more important than people think it is but it's so damn expensive. It's too expensive for the customers, it's too expensive to go to school and it's too expensive to buy the equipement. No one can be a dentists if they aren't from a rich family that will pay the first tabs. That's got to change.

originally posted by: snypwsd
a reply to: rickymouse

Here in bc canada we still have workers comp. Is called wcb or worksafe bc. Yes price of most meds are cheap. Yes wait times at hospitals can be long as #. But there is a clinic on every block. Walk in show your bc care card. And bam in 10 mins-30 mins your being helped. If i had to move to another country i would make sure to stay away from the states. There is way to much price gouging there. Id much rather move to a northern european country as their health care is equal too or greater than ours here in canada.

Also you pay your healthcare when you do your taxes so that way you only pay once a year. And you dont even notice it.

If you make less that $25000 a year in bc. You dont pay ANYTHING for healthcare. Which means if you are poor and live in poverty you will/do have free healthcare. So long as you declare that you are in that tax bracket.

I wish it were like that here. Our copay is twenty five bucks every time you go to the doctor. The doctor bill is usually around a hundred sixty bucks but insurances usually only approve one twenty which the office accepts. Then with your twenty five copay the insurance only pays around ninety five bucks.

Then, they try to get you to go for blood tests when you aren't even sick and insurance companies promote this practice as preventive medicine. Preventive my but, the insurance companies get to profit about five percent on total medical paid out so the more you go to the doctor, the more money they get to pay their expenses and salaries.

Thanks for posting this thread. I never knew the finer points of the Canadian Health Care System.

Here in Japan we have an interesting way of providing universal health care. There are two ways for you to get access to health care. First, there is the national health care tax. You pay that if you don`t work for a company or if your company is dirty and finds ways, often illegal, to skirt around pay for your health care.

The second way to gain access to health care if though a company health care plan. The company you work for provides you with health insurance; you pay half and they pay the other half each month. Regardless the max your co-pay at any hospital or clinic will be is 30 percent. Any needed medicine will also have the max 30 percent co-pay cap placed on it as well.