The Apostle Paul, A Man Used of God

Lately there have been many who claim Paul is a Liar, and agent of Satan to lead men away from Jesus. Nothing could be further form the truth.

One even posted a suggested web address to a web site that dealt with the problems of Paul. I went there and what I found was a mess.

The site was full of unmitigated nonsense. It contained a lot of opinions on out of context scriptures. The person doesn't consider FIGURES of SPEECH, He doesn't consider immediate, spiritual, cultural or historical context of any of the text he claims are either errors, contradictions or lies. The author doesn't consider the who, what, when, where, why, which, and How of any context and never attempts to bring out the meaning of the whole text as a whole in context. Presenting opinion on out of context verses will lead to error every time.

The verses are nit picked to make it say what ever the Blogger wants it or thinks it to say and not what the text truly says and teaches in context.

Now anyone can take a single verse and make it say anything if they divorced the text from the literal immediate context.

For example I could claim things like the blogger and say, "Jesus says to commit suicide and it is found in the Bible".

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

But we all know Jesus would never teach such a thing but there it is in the Bible however it is out of context and placed together in a way to teach something false. That is all the author of the web site has done.

There are so many errors and inconsistencies in the teaching on that site it would take many many hours go through and disprove the bloggers opinions. There are sites already dedicated to that very purpose.

However one of the Bloggers opinions struck me as totally being false to the scriptures yet he wants you to believe he is telling you the truth. the Author stated "Paul demands the outspoken prayer which Christ condemns as exhibitionist!" First he makes his opinion fact and then ties an out of Context scripture to it as support. 1Tim 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

The Authors proof "The Savior states that one should only pray in solitude and in secret, never openly". Mt 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

However if anyone would take time to look we would see that a case could be made that Jesus Violated Matt 6 as well seeing he prayed openly many many times. His prayer in giving thanks for the food when he fed the 5000 was openly, or John 11 when he prayed Openly to raise Lazarus from the dead, or in John 17 when he prayed openly. And Jesus himself as far as we know from God's word never went into a closet to pray.

What did Jesus really mean in Matthew 6.

Mt 6:5 ¶ And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

It is very clear empty boastful prayers made to draw attention to ones self is prideful and god wont hear them. He for affect was saying that earnest prayer from ones closet would be heard before those of a prideful man's prayer.

Paul set the context of his exhortation to prayer everywhere was not in violation to Jesus Teaching a claimed seeing he was not promoting self drawing and empty prayers but sincere prayers be made

look at the context.
quote]1Tim 2:1 ¶ I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

Simple observation of scriptures proves the the Author was wrong and errs not knowing the whole context of the scriptures in the New Testament not to mention the Old Testament where many many times leaders, prophets and kings openly prayed unto God. One comes to mind it was King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived.

1Kings 8:22 And Solomon stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven:
23 And he said, LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven above, or on earth beneath, who keepest covenant and mercy with thy servants that walk before thee with all their heart: . . . And it was so, that when Solomon had made an end of praying all this prayer and supplication unto the LORD, he arose from before the altar of the LORD, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to heaven.

Why would God change if he allowed open prayer in the Old Testament why would he then give new revelation that says only to pray in private. Well God doesn't you see the author of that web site was presenting his opinion on a text out of context and is leading many people away from the simplicity of Christ. Paul said,

Ac 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Remember there is a lot of money to be had in religion and men will do what ever it takes to get a hold of that filthy lucre.

Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

They will defend themselves by saying Paul is a liar, false apostle, they will claim parts of the Bible are in error even though God Promised to preserve his words to this generation and forever

Ps 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Truly Paul was a man used of God.

May God bless you in the study of his word

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Considering the recent influx of new members that seemingly hate Paul... This should be interesting to say the least...

Perhaps this thread was made to counter my suggestion to another member to write a thread about the website you're talking about?

In any case... should be interesting

Already got my popcorn, and a beer

a reply to: Akragon

I know that someone made a suggestion to write a thread on Paul. So I did.

did you read my whole OP?

If they will bring the verse and the Opinion it wont take long to put it in context and show the error. I hope it will stay civil.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

www.abovetopsecret.com...

that would be me...

Of course I read the whole post... but again, considering I believe you will already have your hands full, I will keep to the sidelines, and remain a spectator for now

a reply to: Akragon

Not much more the OP says it all.

Paul actually does lie in the new testament often. He was given a messages from the Apostles themselves to deliver to the gentiles, an easy way for them to live. 4 simple suggestions. He never delivers the message to them, and states they only said to help the poor. That's a lie.

He also spends a whole lot of time saying that he isn't lying, so someone thought he was back then.

Also he perjured himself at sanhedrin, and the ever changing story of his alleged conversion. Even calling himself Apostle is a lie. No actual Apostles refer to him as Apostle. And why does he call them Apostles of men if he isn't jealous of their status. Is he calling himself Gods Apostle? That's just being outrageous and boastfully ignorant. And he teaches its ok to eat meat sacrificed to Idols, which might sound irrelevant, but Jesus forbid it. That's pretty suspect. I can see why a lot of Christans would reject Paul. And him being a liar is part of scripture, its in scripture.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

If they will bring the verse and the Opinion it wont take long to put it in context and show the error. I hope it will stay civil.

You wont change any minds here
Not only is it the gnostics who claim and incredible knowledge of the bible, its many of the atheists as well

Keep a cool and calm head, Paul was and is one of the greatest apostles, called to teach the Gospel to the despised gentiles.

Once a a man who despised Christ and His followers, a murderer of christians who eventually found Jesus to be his Lord and Savior
Paul's is an amazing story

"I have become all things to all men" besides sounding Koreshian, is admitting your willing to lie about who you are if it gains followers. God doesn't change for anyone and neither would Jesus

"I have become all things to all men" besides sounding Koreshian, is admitting your willing to lie about who you are if it gains followers. God doesn't change for anyone and neither would Jesus

I mean if you ignore everything in the bible, then you could deny it. But did he lie was the question and I have proven at the least one lie he told. So if you say he didn't lie your ignoring what scripture records.

He lied when he claims he would die for Jesus, when given the opportunity to, instead of trusting God to save him, he appeals to Caesar to save his life. That's also lying, he was not willing to die for Jesus. He had so little trust in Jesus that he hopes Caesar will save him. He also claims his Pharisee status to gain sympathy at sanhedrin. If he wascconverted to Jesus, he would never claim to be a Pharisee still. He would have publicly denounced them and died for Jesus like he claims he was willing.

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

This is a poor and disingenuous example of what the website in question was doing. Nowhere on that website did the author glue two totally unrelated verses together and try to pass them off as one verse.

What he actually did was compare verses from Paul's epistles to other verses within the gospels and other books within the Bible.

Paul was disingenuous in my opinion, he represents what Jesus didn't want, which was belief without action.

Matthew 6
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Jesus says that in order for God to forgive you, you must forgive others. There is no mention of believing in a sacrifice ANYWHERE within Jesus' words, nowhere. It is Paul who introduced this doctrine into Christian theology, not Jesus.

Matthew 5
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

How can someone be perfect?

1 John 4
17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.

1 John 2
6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

By living as Jesus did: without sin. Those who claim to live in Jesus MUST live as he did, no ifs ands or buts.

1 John 3
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.

Those who sin are of the devil, if you live in Jesus then the devil's work (sin) is destroyed, because those who live in him live as he did: without sin.

1 John 3
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Those who are born of God (live in Jesus) cannot continue sinning because God's seed remains in them.

How does one become born of God and live as Jesus did?

John 14
21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.

By keeping his commands: love others as yourself and love God. Those who love others forgive them and when you forgive them God also forgives you and you remain in his love (his seed remains in to you).

What did Jesus tell a few people?

John 5
14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

John 8
11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

He tells them to stop sinning. How is this done? By loving others and God, if you love others and forgive them God loves and forgives you as well by Jesus' own words.

Paul was not needed, Jesus told us everything we needed to know while he was on his ministry. Love others, not believe in a sacrifice.

Matthew 9
13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Jesus did not desire sacrifice, but mercy. Mercy is an outward manifestation of love and forgiveness.

Paul does not teach any of this, he teaches:

Romans 3
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Under the teachings of Paul, works (and thus forgiveness) are not needed, only belief in a sacrifice. Jesus had no desire for sacrifice, only mercy, a.k.a. forgiveness.

Paul is of the tribe of Benjamin, the tribe of Benjamin had the standard of a wolf. Paul was a wolf in sheep's clothing and he is one of the people who claimed to be an apostle but was not, just as Jesus warned us about.

I know you will say that I have taken these things out of context, but that is a cop out to ignore the real issue. All of the verses I cited stand on their own and are their own context, they mean exactly what they say and no amount of verses surrounding them will change what they mean.

All of Asia has rejected me. Paul says that in timothy I think. If he wasn't teaching false teachings, why would the whole of Asia minor reject him. Peter finds out what Paul has been teaching, he rebukes him. I think I'm getting why people say Paul was a liar, because he was

God bless whoever made this post, I can't believe I didn't realize this sooner. False prophet Saul should be his title. I feel bad for the Christians who are deceived into believing a 13th apostle is even possible. 12 is a sacred number, inviolate, and to add to it is blasphemous. Jesus twice confirms that there are only 12 Apostles, lastly its johns revelation and the vision of new Jerusalem, that has 12 of everything, the last mentioned is the names of the TWELVE apostles. Paul is like the Anti Jesus. I hope God wakes these false believers up. It's not their fault they just don't get it. Not every one is astute.

Good luck with this thread. So many who claim to be able to debunk parts of the Bible do so by taking single verses and staking their claim on them. Usually all you have to do is quote the passage to show how wrong they are, but with Paul it's especially difficult because the man is a lawyer when it comes to his writings.

You need to parse especially long passages and difficult rhetoric in order to get his meaning and too many just aren't willing to go there.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I totally agree with you. Paul says knowledge puffs up(makes you arrogant) and I guess people assume knowledge is bad because of this. What he is really saying is the Apostles are puffed up from having KNOWN Jesus. What a jealous man

a reply to: ketsuko

So Paul lying about what the Apostles said is not lying? That's plain context, not based off anything but the bible. A lie is a lie, and you can't deny it.

a reply to: Essene616

Not only are there only 12 apostles, but they didn't even choose Paul to replace Judas, they chose Matthias. Where was Paul when they chose the replacement for Judas? He was out persecuting Christians. Seems like if Jesus wanted Paul to be an apostle he would have chosen him as a replacement for Judas, but he didn't.

Paul is an enigma.